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Unsolved case

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Hi friends. I've dude on this card. The card says: Place 1 of your clues on the location with the highest shroud. 

This part is obligated for play card or optional (if you havent clues in your clues pool)?

Thanks

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Apparently, the debate on that is ongoing, I've seen a half-dozen threads on this in various places. The wording is not entirely clear, but the intention is quite clearly that you can't play it if you don't have clues. 

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Hi Friend

Just to be clear you don’t need to have any clues on Joe to play his weakness card. The placing of a clue is an effect of playing the card and not a cost to do so. If Joe has no clues, no clue gets placed, and he can still pay, play and remove this from the game.

Sometimes the wording can seem unclear, which is why the Arkham Chronicle exists :)

If you want to know more about how Joe works then check out our video.

https://youtu.be/pSRAT6Gc_tI

We hope you find it helpful.

The Arkham Chronicle Gang

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14 minutes ago, ArkhamChronicle said:

The placing of a clue is an effect of playing the card and not a cost to do so. If Joe has no clues, no clue gets placed, and he can still pay, play and remove this from the game.

I agree with this interpretation. If you had to have a clue to be able to play the card it would read: "Place 1 of your clues on the location with the highest shroud. Then, remove Unsolved Case from the game." This would require that "place 1 of your clues on the location with the highest shroud" resolves successfully before Unsolved Case can be removed from the game.

As it is written, each sentence is a separate effect and you must simply resolve each effect as fully as you can. Since removing Unsolved Case from the game will always change the game state you are always able to play it... as long as you can pay the 2 resource cost!

Edited by Assussanni

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No, because you only get one chance to use it - when it appears at the top of your Hunch deck. It's not possible to wait for the opportune moment to get rid of it; once it appears you have only that turn to get rid of it. If it was not usable if you had to clues, there would be situations where you were incapable, through no fault if your own, of dealing with it. 

The rules here are unambiguous: The two effects of the event (place a clue; remove UC from the game) are separate and one can resolve even if the other cannot; the "remove UC from the game" effect is a change in game state that is not a cost so it can be activated even if that is the only part that will resolve; you can't choose to only resolve that part if you have a clue, since you must resolve as much of an effect as possible unless explicitly given an optional choice (via the word "may").

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1 hour ago, Allonym said:

No, because you only get one chance to use it - when it appears at the top of your Hunch deck. It's not possible to wait for the opportune moment to get rid of it; once it appears you have only that turn to get rid of it. If it was not usable if you had to clues, there would be situations where you were incapable, through no fault if your own, of dealing with it. 

The rules here are unambiguous: The two effects of the event (place a clue; remove UC from the game) are separate and one can resolve even if the other cannot; the "remove UC from the game" effect is a change in game state that is not a cost so it can be activated even if that is the only part that will resolve; you can't choose to only resolve that part if you have a clue, since you must resolve as much of an effect as possible unless explicitly given an optional choice (via the word "may").

Oh yeah, you're right, I didnt' consider that. That makes it more interesting. So I guess it's more "no hunch this turn, lose two resources, if you have clues, lose those too". Yeah, that works. 

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9 minutes ago, Eldan985 said:

Oh yeah, you're right, I didnt' consider that. That makes it more interesting. So I guess it's more "no hunch this turn, lose two resources, if you have clues, lose those too". Yeah, that works. 

Yes, and more to the point, it's unpredictable: in one scenario it might appear on your first turn, so you're taking a resource and action hit when setting up. Next scenario, it appears after you've just drawn a 5-health enemy, so instead of spending 3 actions shooting it you have to either get someone to bail you out, or take an attack of opportunity to play Unsolved Case and then not necessarily kill the enemy at all. Then it comes up right at the end of a scenario and you need to put a clue on a cleared Victory location halfway across the map, so you're depriving the whole team of 1 exp if you play it.

 It's by no means the harshest signature weakness (that depends on scenario and player count) but it can and will come up in situations where it's really tempting to take the exp hit, and you cannot put it off for a turn or two. 

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1 minute ago, Starbreaker1 said:

It is also important to note, if you have dissonant voices in your threat area you are SOL if it comes up from the hunch deck that turn, it is weakish, but it can also be dangerous, especially since it comes up often.

Oh **** that is a horrible situation. The only thing that can save you then is an ally playing Logical Reasoning or Alter Fate. I guess that's one more reason I'll be going for early 2 copies of Forewarned on Joe.

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Actually, the worst weakness combination I've ever had was Calvin with a Stubborn detective. Turn one. I immediately drew a new basic weakness one after considering the situation for a few minutes. 

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5 hours ago, Allonym said:

take an attack of opportunity to play Unsolved Case and then not necessarily kill the enemy at all.

As the creature roared, I suddenly realized I'd smelled its breath before. Minnesota. O'Malley's basement. The one case I'd never managed to solve. The thing had been there, at the site of my greatest failure. It wasn't about saving Arkham anymore; now it was personal! After all those years, I finally had the chance to redeem--Ow! Hey, do you mind! I'm havin' an epiphany here!

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Thank you all for your answers. We have a large community in Spain and although several people claimed that it is not necessary to have a clue to play the card, I was not entirely clear. Thanks again.

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