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1 hour ago, Darth Sanguis said:

OOF...

ya, probably too harsh. Whatever, they are targeting the largest demographic they can but a large portion of that demo has never been a fan of star trek so trying to draw them in with "EXPLOSIONS!!!!!1!" is only going to result in driving out fans of the older series while attracting fair weather consumers who are only interested in a visual spectacle that doesn't have too much to think about. 

For what it's worth I like that star wars is using a more diverse cast, it's the right way to do it and Rey is a GREAT protagonist with a fantastic actress helming her, they just really could use some better writers. 

 

Edit: If they could figure out a way to add supped up space cars that jump from ship to ship out the space windows with Vin diesel driving one I bet that would sell so many tickets to "2 star 2 trek 2 furious". 

Edited by dominosfleet

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My main reason was not even that they messed up the lore completely. They could have done that in a breathtaking way, but the movies itself were bad, uninspiring, poorly written and the direcring was stupid. Except of two scenes from TLJ and Mark Hamill I feel like the actors had no idea how they should act/react in the situation they were filming.

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6 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

they just really could use some better writers.  

Star Wars could use better writer(s) since the Episode 4 first came out. Have you ever read the OG script? They made an entire comic out of it, found HERE

Its a bit rough.

I honestly think that Disney looked over all the old Legends content and said, "We would love to do this, but we would 1: have to pay royalties, and 2: Would have needed to do this, 15-20 years ago." And the reason for this is just the actor's ages. 15-20 years ago, Mark Hamill would have been 47, a great age to set up the entire being married, having kids that are not young enough to tell stories about without it being a redo of prequels... but that's not what happened. So how do you set up for some stories that explore radical new ideas while also introducing new characters? Slowly introduce them and remove the old characters at the same time. Finish up some meaningful character arcs that could have developed, create some new character arcs at the same time.

I suspect, that if Disney doesn't get massive backlash in 9, we might see something like the Vong hinted at in the future. Not to the extreme that the Vong are, but enough of a threat that it makes sense story wise.

But thats just me.

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3 hours ago, Ling27 said:

I suspect, that if Disney doesn't get massive backlash in 9, we might see something like the Vong hinted at in the future. Not to the extreme that the Vong are, but enough of a threat that it makes sense story wise.

But thats just me.


Never underestimate Disney.  Once the First Order is wiped out, maybe the Second Order will emerge from the an unknown region of the Unknown Region?  They're kinda like the First Order, but totally different.  Like, their mega-AT-ATs have 8 LEGS!  And their mega stardestroyer is six times as big as Snoke's ship, which was wider than the Death Star.. never forget!  #ScaleCreep #BiggerISBetter

And you thought Poe was the best pilot you've ever seen?!  Guess again!  Poe Jr kicks twice as much a**and spouts off four times as much sass!  'Membeh that time Poe killed 10 TIEs in 8 seconds?  Well Poe Jr shoots down 20 TIEs in 4 seconds!  You'll wanna watch that scene on slow-motion!

 

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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On topic:

I think that if Armada continues after the SSD (and that's not a trivial "if"), it's a forgone conclusion that we'll see Separatists and Republic factions roll out next.  The GCW well has basically run dry, and it seems plausible the SSD would be the last thing to squeeze out of that era.  X-Wing and Destiny are already exploring the Prequel-Era and setting the stage for Armada, as certainly FFG would plan on double-and-triple-dipping the commissioned art across as many games as possible.  Much of the recently previewed Sep/Rep stuff from X-Wing features capital ships in the art as well, like Venators and Luchrehulks.  With some basic cropping, these art pieces become ship cards and upgrade cards for Armada. 

When FFG made the (likely difficult) decision to jump into the Prequel Era with their properties, surely they were hoping to spread it across as many product line as possible.  That doesn't mean that Armada is a viable enough property to actually support more releases or two new factions, but that seems to be the only direction likely deemed worth going if the product line doesn't end with the SSD. 

I don't think the Sequel Era (yet) works for Armada.  The story is far too divisive at the moment, while the ships/squadrons are largely aesthetically derivative and it's all complicated by that fact that despite being 2/3 of the way through the story we really don't have many ships.  That said, on-screen in the OT we only get 1 Imperial Ship and 4-5 Rebel Ships (depending on if you think 'wings' make the MC80s different... and the B'rah'tok gunship doesn't really count since it's a 'blink and you miss it' ship).  So, if the comics and video games start stepping up additions to the ST, maybe it'll be a viable faction... but the OT had 40 years of expanded content to give us the few other ships we see in Armada.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


Never underestimate Disney.  Once the First Order is wiped out, maybe the Second Order will emerge from the an unknown region of the Unknown Region?  They're kinda like the First Order, but totally different.  Like, their mega-AT-ATs have 8 LEGS!  And their mega stardestroyer is six times as big as Snoke's ship, which was wider than the Death Star.. never forget!  #ScaleCreep #BiggerISBetter

And you thought Poe was the best pilot you've ever seen?!  Guess again!  Poe Jr kicks twice as much a**and spouts off four times as much sass!  'Membeh that time Poe killed 10 TIEs in 8 seconds?  Well Poe Jr shoots down 20 TIEs in 4 seconds!  You'll wanna watch that scene on slow-motion!

 

notfunfact: thats pretty much how I expect it.

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1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I think that if Armada continues after the SSD (and that's not a trivial "if"), it's a forgone conclusion that we'll see Separatists and Republic factions roll out next.  The GCW well has basically run dry, and it seems plausible the SSD would be the last thing to squeeze out of that era.

Maybe that's right. We've already seen nearly all important ships and characters for GCW area. Maybe there is some more content to come, like 1 wave or 2, a campaign or accessories box with some new cards. But the game can't expand for ever, and it's not healthy to include strange stuff like Vong ships or never seen EU stuff in a too big amount.

If FFG would bring PT ships and squadrons, which is likely, as you said, because they do it in X-wing and anounced to do so for Legion, they have to produce a new Core Set. You can't expect to sell the old box to new Armada players, if they want to play Clone Wars era.

So when doing a new Core Set, I would change a few things a bit to adjust it to the flair of Clone Wars with older ships and robot armies. Maybe like different damage cards, range ruler and maybe even dice. But I would use the movement tool and more-or-less the same rules. Clone Wars: Armada would be a game, that could develop without all issues to come if you have to compete with 2 existing and fully spread out factions. No problem with tournaments! (Imagine you would have to go with wave 1 ships and cards only to a tournament.) No bad feelings for mixing two eras and characters fighting that don't live at the same time. Yet with rules and movement tools alike, CW:A and SW:A can be played together. So for existing Armada communities there is a possibility to play with old and new content, it they like.

I think to do it like this would be a wise decision! (And maybe someone else wants to do the Clone Wars: Armada wiki...)

 

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As some of the ship designs from the old EU, aka the Rebellion pc game were Lucasarts, does Disney not own that now?

But yes, short of a whole new set of shows/movies set in the GCW, I would imagine clone wars will come. Which I wouldn’t mind as long as some relevant ships eg Acclamator, are cross faction.

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It would be shooting oneself in the foot if you didnt just keep the Clone Wars content in the same game as Armada. Sepratists are the faction with the least cross action right now, so they would be the most expensive to buy into. You could easily make a conversion kit for ships for the republic. Seeing as we have the Pelta, Arquitens, Victory, ect. These could transfer easily, but also have reprinted versions with republic colors.

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I think you will constantly see a new stream of ships from new movies and shows. Clone wars is a natural fit for armada. I expect it announced at GenCon along with content for Legion.

Starting X-wing, I have no idea where 75% of the ships come from. All these shows I havent watched

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On 2/14/2019 at 1:00 AM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

The GCW well has basically run dry, and it seems plausible the SSD would be the last thing to squeeze out of that era.  

I think there's still plenty of options there, if FFG wants to use them.

Rebels: Liberator Cruiser, Dauntless Cruiser, CC-7700 (which would be handy as a "Rebel Interdictor"), CC-9600, MC-40 Light Cruiser, Star Defender, 

Empire: Dreadnought, Carrack Cruiser, Lancer Frigate, Ardent Fast Frigate, Strike Cruiser, Bellator Battlecruiser, 

There's also the option for a pirate/independent faction if FFG wanted to add just one new faction instead of trying for two.

Not saying that it would necessarily be the best business option to stick with the GCW, but it *is* an option that's still there if FFG wants to go down that road.

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My biggest concern about intorducing any new factions is new upgrades that can only be found in the new faction boxes. For me it will be fine as I am just going to buy everything, but for people that play, but cant get everything it becomes a turn off.  I am more then happy to have new factions, but the upgrade situation will have to be handled properly.

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There could probably be two more waves from the GCW period.  It's hardly a dry well.  You could do a good Wave of just some iconic ships for us "older" players, like. Two ships could be a Dreadnought for the Imps and a counterpart of an Assault Frigate Mk1 for the Rebs.  A small ship/flotilla for each could round it out.

Edited by AegisGrimm

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On 2/14/2019 at 3:43 AM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


Never underestimate Disney.  Once the First Order is wiped out, maybe the Second Order will emerge from the an unknown region of the Unknown Region?  

Just wait until they get to the Third Reich Order! Who will they do battle with? We already had the rebellion, now the resistance, what's next? Recalcitrant Anarchists? A small band of freedom fighters going up against all odds with a young idealist learning the ways of the force, teamed up with a wookie and a small band of misfits as they struggle to usurp t the evil order who have built a massive super weapon to enforce their rule and hold on the galaxy.

Edited by BlueSquadronPilot

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On 2/16/2019 at 10:02 AM, darkknight109 said:

I think there's still plenty of options there, if FFG wants to use them.

Rebels: Liberator Cruiser, Dauntless Cruiser, CC-7700 (which would be handy as a "Rebel Interdictor"), CC-9600, MC-40 Light Cruiser, Star Defender, 

Empire: Dreadnought, Carrack Cruiser, Lancer Frigate, Ardent Fast Frigate, Strike Cruiser, Bellator Battlecruiser, 

I’m not sure the rebel interdictor is a good idea from a faction identity basis. I like that the imperial faction has different ships to the rebels. A different dynamic if you will.

This also largely depends on how far Disney can or will mine the old EU. 

And I guess the waves don’t have to be symmetrical per se either. Empire definitely has enough for a fighter pack & the imperial support vessel. A solid rebel wave would be the AF mk1, correllian gunship flotilla & U wings.

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On 2/14/2019 at 3:43 AM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


Never underestimate Disney.  Once the First Order is wiped out, maybe the Second Order will emerge from the an unknown region of the Unknown Region?  They're kinda like the First Order, but totally different.  Like, their mega-AT-ATs have 8 LEGS!  And their mega stardestroyer is six times as big as Snoke's ship, which was wider than the Death Star.. never forget!  #ScaleCreep #BiggerISBetter

And you thought Poe was the best pilot you've ever seen?!  Guess again!  Poe Jr kicks twice as much a**and spouts off four times as much sass!  'Membeh that time Poe killed 10 TIEs in 8 seconds?  Well Poe Jr shoots down 20 TIEs in 4 seconds!  You'll wanna watch that scene on slow-motion!

 

If you don’t like it, don’t watch it.  Star Wars snowflakes are the absolute worst.

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6 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

I’m not sure the rebel interdictor is a good idea from a faction identity basis. I like that the imperial faction has different ships to the rebels. A different dynamic if you will.

Fair point and I don't necessarily disagree. I could see the CC-7700 fitting somewhat into the Rebels' MO (set up an ambush for a Imperial convoy in a hyperlane, pull them out of hyperspace, destroy the escorts and capture the cargo, run back to base), but I can also buy the argument that it doesn't fit as well with them as it does for the Empire. The only reason I would want an Interdictor (or equivalent) is for campaign games - Interdictor has a special rule in CC that prevents ships from fleeing, where the Rebels don't have anything that can similarly trap an Imperial fleet trying to get away. It's more of a balance issue (albeit a minor one) than a thematic one.

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On 2/16/2019 at 5:02 AM, darkknight109 said:

I think there's still plenty of options there, if FFG wants to use them.

Rebels: Liberator Cruiser, Dauntless Cruiser, CC-7700 (which would be handy as a "Rebel Interdictor"), CC-9600, MC-40 Light Cruiser, Star Defender, 

Empire: Dreadnought, Carrack Cruiser, Lancer Frigate, Ardent Fast Frigate, Strike Cruiser, Bellator Battlecruiser, 

There's also the option for a pirate/independent faction if FFG wanted to add just one new faction instead of trying for two.

Not saying that it would necessarily be the best business option to stick with the GCW, but it *is* an option that's still there if FFG wants to go down that road.


It's an open question as to how generous Disney would be in allowing those older designs.  Bear in mind that when FFG first started with Armada, LFL was not yet owned by Disney. 

Either way, while we can find ships like you've noted, I think the Galactic Civil War era has seen its last Armada release.  It's the only explanation for such a plodding and long stretch of no content, with nothing new for that era even teased.  If Armada continues, it will likely be with the addition of Republic and Separatist factions, following in the footsteps of X-Wing.  This likely means that Rebel-Only, Imperial-Only, or GCW-Era_Only players will have nothing new to look forward to, outside of possibly having to chase generic upgrades in the Separatist/Republic rleases.  This is exactly the current situation in X-Wing, and it's looking like the Imperial and Rebel factions will not get a new release for at least a year or two (if at all) while the new factions are explored.  IF the new live-action series (either the Mandalorian or the Cassian Andor chronicles) give us appropriate new Rebel/Imperial ships, we may see them come out in a couple of years.  But barring that, it'll likely be only Republic/Separatist releases or nothing at all, I'd guess.

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On 2/17/2019 at 3:55 PM, ninclouse2000 said:

If you don’t like it, don’t watch it.  Star Wars snowflakes are the absolute worst.


What was I supposed to do, keep my eyes closed for the entirety of TLJ once it was going off the rails?  It's not like the studio or the theater will give a refund after you've started the film (typically).  But rest assured, I won't be watching Episode 9, if that's any consolation.  :)

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4 hours ago, darkknight109 said:

Er... yes it was. Disney bought LFL in 2012; Armada didn't launch until 2015.

You are correct in that it was owned  as of October 30, 2012

The pertinent date for us, however, is April 25, 2014.  This is the point where "Canon" changed, and the EU became Legends, and (to writers and developers) officially off limits unless they wanted to write under the Legends banner.

 

On August 8, 2014 Star Wars: Armada was officially announced by Fantasy Flight Games. It was released on March 27, 2015.  Now, when you factor in the LONG lead up time to announcement that a product is in Development and Alpha (18+ months), you can very easily see that the Core Set and Wave One (stated once to have been worked on together) were essentially Developed and Confirmed under the "EU is allowed" system...   But then the subsequent releases were under Disney Canonicity requirements (and authorisation).

 

Which is why we have Assault Frigates and Garm....  But a Rebels-Class and design Interdictor.

 

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3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

You are correct in that it was owned  as of October 30, 2012

The pertinent date for us, however, is April 25, 2014.  This is the point where "Canon" changed, and the EU became Legends, and (to writers and developers) officially off limits unless they wanted to write under the Legends banner.

 

On August 8, 2014 Star Wars: Armada was officially announced by Fantasy Flight Games. It was released on March 27, 2015.  Now, when you factor in the LONG lead up time to announcement that a product is in Development and Alpha (18+ months), you can very easily see that the Core Set and Wave One (stated once to have been worked on together) were essentially Developed and Confirmed under the "EU is allowed" system...   But then the subsequent releases were under Disney Canonicity requirements (and authorisation).

 

Which is why we have Assault Frigates and Garm....  But a Rebels-Class and design Interdictor.

 



Bingo.

The first half of X-Wing and the early waves of Armada were almost certainly planned, approved, and designed under a different set of licensing hoops and hurdels than FFG has to deal with currently.

If you look at the last several waves of Armada, everything is pretty much "Tier 1" Disney Canon stuff (from either the OT, Rebels, or Rogue One).  Same with X-Wing, everything since Wave 7 has been from that same caliber of Tier 1 Canon. 

Now, there are two* notable exceptions:
1. X-Wing added the Scurrg later, but this was likely grandfathered into X-Wing because it already existed in Armada
2. Armada added the Z-95, TIE Defender, and E-Wing later, but these were likely grandfathered into Armada because they already existed in X-Wing

FFG could probably make a case of "well these things were already approaved and exist in our product line and we already commissioned the art and the 3D modeling assuming a multi-line release" or whatever, and Disney/LFL likely accepted.

When's the last time anything "deep Legends" has come out in an FFG Star Wars game that didn't already exist in one of their other games?  Literally the only thing I can think of in the past couple of years is the Assault Gunboat* and the Kimogila* a little over a year and a half ago (X-Wing).  These were certainly surprises, and maybe FFG can pull out something akin to that level of Legends again, but everything about 2.0 X-Wing thus far suggests that we're possibly not gonna see another Legends ship.

 

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