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1 hour ago, Ling27 said:

From what I understand of new canon, Starkiller Base was what inspired the Death Star, and had already existed for a few thousand years. It was just too big to use to terrorise people covertly (as you can see its shot across the galaxy), so Palp built a smaller version.

That would seem to conflict pretty significantly with what we'd read and seen in 'Catalyst' and 'Rogue One' (both canon), where the Republic and then Empire is struggling continuously with trying to find any power source strong enough for the superlaser (the Jedi's Kyber Crystals turned out to be the key) as well as creating the emitter itself.

What's the source for that?

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3 hours ago, Grumbleduke said:

There were other Resistance people at the time, they were just busy on other missions (the novelisation makes that clear). Snap Wexley being an example.

It's also worth nothing that the First Order isn't the remnant of the Empire. Without the Emperor the Empire fractured, but the biggest part was the bit that stayed in the main part of the Galaxy, surrendered to the Republic, and gradually hid in its own little corner of the Core (so some of the old Empire is still out there). The First Order was part of Palpatine's "Contingency" plan to cut away the corrupt, bureaucratic and wasteful parts of the Empire that he'd inherited from the Old Republic, and set the True Believers up in the Unknown Regions, while leaving mass destruction and chaos behind - but that plan got screwed up by the heroes in the Aftermath books (the Republic wasn't crippled, the remnants of the Empire were able to get together long enough to surrender, and key players in the Contingency were killed).

The result was that the group that did escape into the Unknown Regions was relatively leaderless - and in their desperation they turned to someone they found out there who was vaguely Emperor-shaped; Snoke.

That's why every part of the First Order looks like the Empire but not quite working properly. Snoke is no Palpatine, Hux is no Tarkin, Ren is no Vader, the First Order is no Empire. Hux is a fool - specially trained from childhood to be a fanatical leader (good public speaker, inspiring to crowds) but tactically useless and - due to his training being cut short (only a child when the Empire fell) emotionally unstable. The First Order does have a few experienced ex-Imperial officers left (e.g. Captain Kennedy in TLJ), and they try to do the best job they can but nothing quite works because they look down on Hux but still feel they have to follow his orders (however stupid they are). Snoke inspires some fear, but nothing like the fear and leadership Palpatine had (can you imagine Palpatine having to throw an officer around on their bridge? Just look at how afraid Jerjerrod was at the mention of his presence).

The First Order was able to grow because it kept in the shadows, nowhere near the Republic. Even when rumours of it did reach the Republic, they were unwilling (due to big military stuff and infiltration from the FO) and unable (due to the Republic-Empire Treaty forbidding territorial expansion/military action outside the agreed on borders) to intervene. Then Senator (or Representative?) Leia tried to convince them otherwise, but lost - gave up her political career to set up a Resistance - officially unsanctioned by the Republic, but quietly supported by some (hence picking up some old Republic starships and fighters, and some key Republic leaders).

Anyway. As for fleets, the New Republic decided not to have a strong, central Government (viewing that as the bad thing of the Empire and Old Republic). So while there are lots of ships out there, only a few were under the command of the Republic (mostly destroyed in the attack on the Hosnian System, where the Republic was based then) - most were under control of the local systems. And without the Republic's leadership, they're not leaving their home systems - not when there's a dangerous enemy out there with a significant fleet. It was some of those fleets General Leia was hoping would come to their rescue on Crait.

Without a Resistance (or Republic) to lead the opposition to the First Order, each individual system should fall fairly easily.

The First Order is supposed to be scary because of its fanaticism, and its military power. But it is also supposed to be fairly incompetent, because of its messed up leadership and lack of experienced officers or troops (relying on brainwashed press-ganged locals).

[Source: the Aftermath Trilogy and the novelisations of TFA and TLJ (the latter in particular goes into so much more detail than the film does).]

[Also... I'd forgotten about that Rise of the Resistance thing - woo for MC80s still being around!]

AFAIK, actually the ENTIRE New Republic fleet (as a central thing) was wiped out in the Hosnian system.  Although, as you note, most of what would be expected to fight in an organized war was distributed amongst all the various planetary bodies.

Sort of the situation of the North American colonies under the Articles of Confederation and before the Constitution, actually (and basically why the Constitution was decided on as something that was needed - because this is a very stupid way to set up a government.  At least, if there are any other rival governments or political movements or organized pirates or etc).  But that's no comment on your post - aside from the detail on no New Republic fleet ships being left, I think you've otherwise bang-on nailed the situation of the sequel trilogy.

(Sure would have been nice if they'd explained that - any part of that - within the movies, somehow.  If only there was some kind of opening with explanatory background information or something that could have been used...)

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3 hours ago, Quadro28 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/missingwords/status/1063958128411074560?s=21

My quick search shows that:

1) It specifically takes place after TLJ

2) The story is as canon as a theme park ride can be.

This seems similar to the OT. Who had any idea the rebellion was larger than what was on Alderaan?

Yet somehow, between large time jumps and a desire to sell more, cool looking toys, the rebellion turned out to be a galaxy spanning organization with all kinds of cool space ships.

You do you buddy.  Enjoy. 👍

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9 hours ago, Ling27 said:

From what I understand of new canon, Starkiller Base was what inspired the Death Star, and had already existed for a few thousand years. It was just too big to use to terrorise people covertly (as you can see its shot across the galaxy), so Palp built a smaller version.

A bit of digging suggests the current "best canon" is that it was a planet with lots of natural kyber crystals, some of which were mined by the Empire for the Death Star's superlaser. When the First Order was looking for somewhere to build their fancy new project they dug through the Imperial archives to find this planet, then searched the Unknown Regions for it.

They mined a lot more of the kyber crystals (for their weapons etc.), and when they'd mined enough built the base/weapon structure into the planet.

It looks big, but may not be as big as the Death Stars in terms of actual construction as they're building the base into an existing planet.

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 I just started to get back into Armada so I came here for some discussion. Is it not a given that the clone wars will come to Armada? It would make sense to me to launch a new two player starter 

 I have locals that want to get into it but they’re scared that it’s dead. 

And of course many places you go on the Internet people preach the doom of Legion. I don’t know anyone playing it but it sure does get a ton of releases

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On 2/10/2019 at 12:23 AM, Bakura83 said:

Probably because they questioned the sensibility of joining a group that let all their commanders go into battle in cocktail dresses and couldn’t hide from the most inept navy in galactic history in a space literally as large as a galaxy.

No. There is another one!

flash-gordon-06.jpg

If picture is not visible...

https://georgespigot.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/flash-gordon-06.jpg

Edited by Triangular

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On 2/9/2019 at 11:35 PM, Ling27 said:

From what I understand of new canon, Starkiller Base was what inspired the Death Star, and had already existed for a few thousand years. It was just too big to use to terrorise people covertly (as you can see its shot across the galaxy), so Palp built a smaller version.


This is nonsense, though it may well be part of the official new canon.

The whole point of the "Death" Star was to terrorize people openly and boldly, not covertly.  Heck, it's in the very name, "Death" Star (or "Death Squadron," "Executor," "Devastator," etc.) ... if you wanted to be subtle about how easily you could brutalize your opposition you'd name it something like "Gateway Station" or "Deep Research 9" or something.  It was the final embodiment of the "Tarkin Doctrine" of "FEAR WILL KEEP THEM IN LINE!"  That's why, once the Death Star is complete, the Emperor openly disbands the Senate while Tarkin flies into the Inner Rim and gleefully blows up an entire and very important planet... it was to send a message to the entire galaxy, to demonstrate the horrible power the Imperials now possessed.  This was an OVERT terroristic action to subdue the rest of the Galaxy into complete and utter submission.  That's why there is so dialogue in ANH about how the Imperials believe that the station is "now the ultimate power in the galaxy," because Tarkin and the rest of the Imperial High Command believed that (1) the Death Star is impervious to attack and (2) once the galaxy knows about the Death Star no one would ever dare defy the Empire, regardless of how ruthless or terrible its policies, because the Death Star could just blow up an entire system as punishment for disobedience.



So, no, the entire point of the "superweapon" was for it to be an OVERT means to terrorise people.  If it was used covertly... well then it wouldn't achieve any of the goals the Empire wanted from their superweapon.  Whether or not the superweapon moves to its target (Deathstar) or fires from across the entire galaxy (Starkiller) is irrelevant, since the Empire would have believed both weapon platforms were entirely impervious to any sort of significant assault.

Now, Disney New-Canon  may claim that Starkiller was first and inspired the DS, but the Empire couldn't use Starkiller because it wasn't covert enough for the Empire's needs... but that would be profoundly stupid of Disney and would just further demonstrate how very little they care about or understand the built-world they are adding to and curating (which certainly has been their general attitude for the most part as they've churned out content).

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@AllWingsStandyingBy

I believe my use of the word covert was incorrect, though they did build the Death Star in secret and lied after they had used it rather than just admitting they had a planet destroying super weapon. Twice. Starkiller base uses a STAR to destroy a SYSTEM. Sure, keep planets in line, but you don't need to destroy a star and a bunch of planets to do so. Use something smaller. Like why police normally use 9mm and not .50 to do things.

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1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


This is nonsense, though it may well be part of the official new canon.

The whole point of the "Death" Star was to terrorize people openly and boldly, not covertly.  Heck, it's in the very name, "Death" Star (or "Death Squadron," "Executor," "Devastator," etc.) ... if you wanted to be subtle about how easily you could brutalize your opposition you'd name it something like "Gateway Station" or "Deep Research 9" or something.  It was the final embodiment of the "Tarkin Doctrine" of "FEAR WILL KEEP THEM IN LINE!"  That's why, once the Death Star is complete, the Emperor openly disbands the Senate while Tarkin flies into the Inner Rim and gleefully blows up an entire and very important planet... it was to send a message to the entire galaxy, to demonstrate the horrible power the Imperials now possessed.  This was an OVERT terroristic action to subdue the rest of the Galaxy into complete and utter submission.  That's why there is so dialogue in ANH about how the Imperials believe that the station is "now the ultimate power in the galaxy," because Tarkin and the rest of the Imperial High Command believed that (1) the Death Star is impervious to attack and (2) once the galaxy knows about the Death Star no one would ever dare defy the Empire, regardless of how ruthless or terrible its policies, because the Death Star could just blow up an entire system as punishment for disobedience.



So, no, the entire point of the "superweapon" was for it to be an OVERT means to terrorise people.  If it was used covertly... well then it wouldn't achieve any of the goals the Empire wanted from their superweapon.  Whether or not the superweapon moves to its target (Deathstar) or fires from across the entire galaxy (Starkiller) is irrelevant, since the Empire would have believed both weapon platforms were entirely impervious to any sort of significant assault.

Now, Disney New-Canon  may claim that Starkiller was first and inspired the DS, but the Empire couldn't use Starkiller because it wasn't covert enough for the Empire's needs... but that would be profoundly stupid of Disney and would just further demonstrate how very little they care about or understand the built-world they are adding to and curating (which certainly has been their general attitude for the most part as they've churned out content).

In the EU, all Imperial officers were told to refer to the Death Star as the “Imperial Planetary Ore Extractor.”  It was covert, at least initially (obviously we didn’t get past “initially.”)

Now, if you openly announce your superweapon, you risk bolstering the Alliance a hundredfold.  But if you let spacers and passenger liners tell stories of how planets on the Empire’s bad side are debris fields now...  Then political leaders can more easily succumb to fear and denial.  They aren’t 100% sure their backs are to the wall, and it makes them easier to control.

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1 hour ago, Ling27 said:

@AllWingsStandyingBy

I believe my use of the word covert was incorrect, though they did build the Death Star in secret and lied after they had used it rather than just admitting they had a planet destroying super weapon. Twice. Starkiller base uses a STAR to destroy a SYSTEM. Sure, keep planets in line, but you don't need to destroy a star and a bunch of planets to do so. Use something smaller. Like why police normally use 9mm and not .50 to do things.


Well, I assume they built it in secret (both times), because it was more vulnerable during the construction process, but once completed and "armed and fully operational" you could just taunt it in the face of your enemies, as the Emperor does in RotS.

When did the Empire lie about using the Death Star?  I don't seem to recall those instances or sources, but I don't doubt you.  It would certainly seem incongruous with the Empire/Tarkin's stance in ANH, though.


Good point about Starkiller having to consume a sun to fire...as that is much less convenient than a superlaser.  I forgot about that brilliant bit of mechanics from TFA... since you know it's not like the heat, radiation, or mass of an entire star being added to a drastically smaller planetoid would have any adverse effects...   Still, that seems like a 2-for-1 deal, though.  Go suck up a star of a rebellious little system, thus freeze-killing it in utter darkness while powering up your superweapon.  Then unload superweapon upon the next rebellious little system.  It's like a BOGO deal on brutal totalitarian example-making.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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3 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Well, I assume they built it in secret (both times), because it was more vulnerable during the construction process, but once completed and "armed and fully operational" you could just taunt it in the face of your enemies, as the Emperor does in RotS.

When did the Empire lie about using the Death Star?  I don't seem to recall those instances or sources, but I don't doubt you.  It would certainly seem incongruous with the Empire/Tarkin's stance in ANH, though.

I think the only direct reference to a lie about it was 'Rogue One', when Jeddha was reported destroyed 'by a mining accident'.

But I think that is more about your first point, though - the Death Star project had experienced a leak from within the project team, which introduced the possibility that it might not be as invulnerable as expected.  So the Empire was engaging in some misdirection - it's no good to let the galaxy know you might have a viable planet-killing-weapon that is also possible to be destroyed.  Once the plans were recovered, the leaks addressed, and the Rebellion HQ destroyed...then I suspect they would have indeed been a lot more open about it.  Of course, they never got that far, so...

Quote

Good point about Starkiller having to consume a sun to fire... I forgot about brilliant bit of mechanics from TFA... as I forgot much of the rest of the film.  That seems like a 2-for-1 deal, though.  Go suck up a star of a rebellious little system, thus freeze-killing it while powering up your superweapon.  Then unload superweapon the next rebellious little system.  It's like a BOGO deal on brutal totalitarian example-making.

I got the sense that Starkiller base couldn't move?  So it had a couple suns within 'consumable' distance, after those two shots...it's done.  Stupid design, then, but maybe just one of necessity (unusual planet with lots of Kyber Crystals within draining range of two stars making for an easier-to-create super-weapon)?

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10 minutes ago, xanderf said:

I think the only direct reference to a lie about it was 'Rogue One', when Jeddha was reported destroyed 'by a mining accident'.


Well, I'm not too worried about explaining that inconsistency with ANH away because RO is a part of Disney New-Canon which I am critiquing as failing to be consistent with the Empire's stance in ANH (though to be fair RO does a tremendously better job that ST-era Star Wars stuff).  Your point about the "security uncertainty" of the leak is a good point, and it's worth noting that the Senate had not yet been disbanded by the Emperor nor the "Tarkin Doctrine" fully embraced, so maybe the officers responsible for the Jedha test did not yet want to rub the Death Star in the galaxy's face without the Emperor's explicit blessing and go-ahead?  It's not like he was at the Jedha test, and he may not have even pre-approved such an action.  So maybe "mining accident" is what Tarkin/Krennic come up with after their selfish and impatient test of their weapon on a not-necessarily-high-command approved target?   I dunno, I'm speculating without rewatching RO.

Of course, do we know that the "mining accident" story was originated by the Empire?  I don't remember enough of RO to be sure, but it seems like "presumed mining accident" might be the explanation that third party people who find Jedha's ruins come up with... since they wouldn't have any reason to yet suspect it was an Imperial superweapon test?  Like, if it's some Rebels at "the Council of Mothma" who mutter "but I heard Jedha was a mining accident..." for instance, I think it's more likely that it's the incorrect explanation that third party people came up with before Jyn and crew could spread the news that it was a superweapon?

 

16 minutes ago, xanderf said:

I got the sense that Starkiller base couldn't move?  So it had a couple suns within 'consumable' distance, after those two shots...it's done.  Stupid design, then, but maybe just one of necessity (unusual planet with lots of Kyber Crystals within draining range of two stars making for an easier-to-create super-weapon)?

.

Well, it has to have moved, I think.  It must have sucked up a star to kill the Republic systems.  So then it must have moved all the way to a new star system in order to suck that one up during the final battle as it attempted to gather enough energy for a shot at the Resistance's planet?

I mean, leaving aside all the basic questions of like where does the mass, heat, energy, and radiation go when an entire star is sucked inside a planet, like minimally the planet would have to move once the star is sucked up because (1) it's gravity is now radically higher and there is no gravity-giant at the center of its solar system, so it would hurtle out of its orbit.  Also, (2) once the planet fires, the equal-but-opposite nature of physical forces would suggest that the planet would be sent hurtling in the opposite direction of the blast.  So, like, if Starkiller base didn't have some kind of propulsion system to counteract those two points, then after it sucked up and fired off its sun it would be hurtling in an uncontrollable way throughout space, completely off its natural orbit (also, let's not even ask how it's flora and fauna continue to survive when the planet's sun is gone and temperatures plummet as the planet enters total darkness...).



Basically, I think you're right.  There is no evidence or implication that Starkiller Base can move.  But we know that if it can't move, then it's a one-shot weapon because either (1) it's sun is gone and it can't power the weapon again AND/OR (2) it goes hurtling randomly through space having destroyed its own natural stable orbit, and lacks a sun so the planet would freeze to death quickly (yet we see living trees and stuff on Starkiller after Han and co arrive, including people just like walking around outside in the atmosphere). 

So, since we see Starkiller Base at the end of the film and it's not a completely frozen deathscape and has a new star its orbiting and sucking up... like it must have moved to a new star?

Or else like Disney is just so incompetent at writing and vetting scripts that they never stopped to ask how this planet keeps sucking up suns to power its magic missile macguffin cannon multiple times... but like... surely that couldn't be the case...

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2 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Of course, do we know that the "mining accident" story was originated by the Empire?  I don't remember enough of RO to be sure, but it seems like "presumed mining accident" might be the explanation that third party people who find Jedha's ruins come up with... since they wouldn't have any reason to yet suspect it was an Imperial superweapon test?  Like, if it's some Rebels at "the Council of Mothma" who mutter "but I heard Jedha was a mining accident..." for instance, I think it's more likely that it's the incorrect explanation that third party people came up with before Jyn and crew could spread the news that it was a superweapon?

When Krennic went to Vader, it was among the things Vader told him to keep him in his place.  IE., 'you aren't going to be able to tout this achievement, as we are claiming nothing happened here, anyway'

Quote

So, since we see Starkiller Base at the end of the film and it's not a completely frozen deathscape and has a new star its orbiting and sucking up... like it must have moved to a new star?

Or else like Disney is just so incompetent at writing and vetting scripts that they never stopped to ask how this planet keeps sucking up suns to power its magic missile macguffin cannon multiple times... but like... surely that couldn't be the case...

Or the planet was in a binary star system in the first place, so it had the two stars to shoot with?  (Which could also explain the unusually high density of Kyber Crystals - they are apparently associated with stars, somehow)

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Also, inb4 someone says:  OR, maybe Starkiller Base was in a two-star solar system, like Tatooine, and it used Star #1 to kill Hosnian Prime and was in the process of using Star #2 in a suicidal attempt to also kill the entire Resistance at D'Qar (yes, all four hundred people of those pesky Resistance!)    Because the only way to stop 400 people would be to blow up their entire planet.

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1 minute ago, xanderf said:

When Krennic went to Vader, it was among the things Vader told him to keep him in his place.  IE., 'you aren't going to be able to tout this achievement, as we are claiming nothing happened here, anyway'


Ah, I didn't remember that part.  Yea, that's kind of weird, and just seems to not really jive with the Empire's stance on "DEATH-STAR" named superweapons in ANH.  Maybe the Empire (Emperor) had reasons for waiting to make the superweapon publically known, I guess?  Maybe the Emperor wanted the DS to be a secret until he could use it to wipe out the Rebel base in one fell surprise swoop?  Like, if they heard about it, maybe they'd scatter to the winds before he could blow them up in one place?  But even that doesn't make sense, because then Tarkin wouldn't have yet killed Alderaan before going to Dantooine and verifying the Rebel base was there (ANH)?  Eh, I dunno. 

 

5 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Or the planet was in a binary star system in the first place, so it had the two stars to shoot with?  (Which could also explain the unusually high density of Kyber Crystals - they are apparently associated with stars, somehow)


Darn, you beat my "inb4" caveat about binary star systems, hah.  Still, like sucking up one star still means you've suicided your planet if it cannot move, since you'll have destroyed your orbit and 50% of the heat/energy contribution to your solar system's "habitable zone," which would mean your entire planet would be dead and uninhabitable very soon, whilst also be sent to drift aimlessly through space on some new non-orbit path...

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51 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Darn, you beat my "inb4" caveat about binary star systems, hah.  Still, like sucking up one star still means you've suicided your planet if it cannot move, since you'll have destroyed your orbit and 50% of the heat/energy contribution to your solar system's "habitable zone," which would mean your entire planet would be dead and uninhabitable very soon, whilst also be sent to drift aimlessly through space on some new non-orbit path...

I think Star Wars: The Resistance hints that Starkiller has it's own propulsion. IIRC, Poe and Kaz find a system with a dead star and an abandoned First Order weapons factory. Maybe it just kills the star and leaves immediately.

However, that makes me think that firing Starkiller once doesn't fully deplete the star, since the resistance tracked with the shot was from after it destroyed the Hosnian system. Could also mean two stars, though.

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I thought that the second shot was going to be what completely used up the star that was partially drained with the first shot.

I felt like the whole thing was to show that using Starkiller base was a First Order temper tantrum to force people to see them as "legitimate badasses", with no thought to it being a two-shot weapon.

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5 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


This is nonsense, though it may well be part of the official new canon.

The whole point of the "Death" Star was to terrorize people openly and boldly, not covertly.  Heck, it's in the very name, "Death" Star (or "Death Squadron," "Executor," "Devastator," etc.) ... if you wanted to be subtle about how easily you could brutalize your opposition you'd name it something like "Gateway Station" or "Deep Research 9" or something.  It was the final embodiment of the "Tarkin Doctrine" of "FEAR WILL KEEP THEM IN LINE!"  That's why, once the Death Star is complete, the Emperor openly disbands the Senate while Tarkin flies into the Inner Rim and gleefully blows up an entire and very important planet... it was to send a message to the entire galaxy, to demonstrate the horrible power the Imperials now possessed.  This was an OVERT terroristic action to subdue the rest of the Galaxy into complete and utter submission.  That's why there is so dialogue in ANH about how the Imperials believe that the station is "now the ultimate power in the galaxy," because Tarkin and the rest of the Imperial High Command believed that (1) the Death Star is impervious to attack and (2) once the galaxy knows about the Death Star no one would ever dare defy the Empire, regardless of how ruthless or terrible its policies, because the Death Star could just blow up an entire system as punishment for disobedience.



So, no, the entire point of the "superweapon" was for it to be an OVERT means to terrorise people.  If it was used covertly... well then it wouldn't achieve any of the goals the Empire wanted from their superweapon.  Whether or not the superweapon moves to its target (Deathstar) or fires from across the entire galaxy (Starkiller) is irrelevant, since the Empire would have believed both weapon platforms were entirely impervious to any sort of significant assault.

Now, Disney New-Canon  may claim that Starkiller was first and inspired the DS, but the Empire couldn't use Starkiller because it wasn't covert enough for the Empire's needs... but that would be profoundly stupid of Disney and would just further demonstrate how very little they care about or understand the built-world they are adding to and curating (which certainly has been their general attitude for the most part as they've churned out content).

The more disney canon that's added the less I like star wars. Don't get me wrong, I was never much of a fan anyway but gawd if any of the "star killer existed first" stuff is true it's some of the worst stuff I've seen added to any canon. I am amazed how poorly disney is doing with this sandbox. 

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I love when people dislike the mouse canon as much as I do :D

Personally I like to keep a distance and laugh about how inconsistent it is. Other than RO (which is somewhat fine) I doubt I would watch any of the new stuff more than once and even then mostly for the lol's.

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17 hours ago, Quadro28 said:

I think Star Wars: The Resistance hints that Starkiller has it's own propulsion. IIRC, Poe and Kaz find a system with a dead star and an abandoned First Order weapons factory. Maybe it just kills the star and leaves immediately.



This would be my sense.  Still, for the global-wide ecosystem of that planet to not be exterminated in a biological cataclysm, Starkiller would have to very quickly get to a new star system and nestle itself pretty perfectly into a habitable zone nearly exactly like the one it left (also obligatory boo-TLJ point about: if you can make a planetoid hyper-space capable, why not just hyperspace uninhabited moons into the planets of your enemies?  Why spend so many extra resources on constructing the weird star-sucking and shooting mechanism?).  Heck, think of how radically different the environment on Earth is just with a little tilting of the planet... places go from windchills of -40 to sweltering heat waves of 100+ degrees, all with a little planetary tilting to and away from the sun.  So, if you're without a sun (or superclose to it while it's being sucked up) ((or if you go to a new sun and you're not the exact same relative orientation to its habitable zone...) like everything is likely to be killed.    But we know that wasn't the case for Starkiller, since the forests are still in tact as Han and co are checking the place out.


Which is all just to say that, for better or worse, I agree that it's at the bare minimum an implied necessity that Starkiller must have been hyperspace-capable.
 

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I have to laugh at the griping about the logistics of Starkiller base. Nearly every last thing to complain about applies to the Death Star.

 

It consumes suns! Well, the Death Star needed the entire output of a star for a week to fire. Where the **** did that come from.

 

Starkiller would have recoiled away! So would the **** Death Star. I don’t buy the “Death star haz engine” argument. You see clearly that there wasn’t jack for recoil. Ask any controls engineer ever. Even a feed forward control system would have had some lag to response. So why would a weapon of similar design with time for the tech to be refined suddenly have to suffer it?

 

Starkiller exiting first is a problem? Mobile warfare. A giant super weapon that can’t effectively move is a liability or a one-shot weapon. The empire needed a sustainable threat that could move. So build a smaller, mobile version. The first order didn’t need to worry about massive militaries who could come and pound it flat so they weren’t worried about only using it once. 

 

Disney canon isn’t consistent? I’ll see everything that Disney has added and raise you Skippy the Jedi droid and the saddening number of time Boba Fett got eaten by a sarlacc. 

 

***** about the new canon if you want but don’t pretend that the EU was any more consistent or made any more sense. 

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9 minutes ago, Church14 said:

I have to laugh at the griping about the logistics of Starkiller base. Nearly every last thing to complain about applies to the Death Star.

 

It consumes suns! Well, the Death Star needed the entire output of a star for a week to fire. Where the **** did that come from.

 

Starkiller would have recoiled away! So would the **** Death Star. I don’t buy the “Death star haz engine” argument. You see clearly that there wasn’t jack for recoil. Ask any controls engineer ever. Even a feed forward control system would have had some lag to response. So why would a weapon of similar design with time for the tech to be refined suddenly have to suffer it?

 

Starkiller exiting first is a problem? Mobile warfare. A giant super weapon that can’t effectively move is a liability or a one-shot weapon. The empire needed a sustainable threat that could move. So build a smaller, mobile version. The first order didn’t need to worry about massive militaries who could come and pound it flat so they weren’t worried about only using it once. 

 

Disney canon isn’t consistent? I’ll see everything that Disney has added and raise you Skippy the Jedi droid and the saddening number of time Boba Fett got eaten by a sarlacc. 

 

***** about the new canon if you want but don’t pretend that the EU was any more consistent or made any more sense. 

I've been avoiding this thread because I don't feel like using my last remaining "Star Wars fans are the worst" post before getting banned on TLJ (again), but thank you. Exactly this. 

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13 hours ago, Norell said:

I love when people dislike the mouse canon as much as I do :D

Personally I like to keep a distance and laugh about how inconsistent it is. Other than RO (which is somewhat fine) I doubt I would watch any of the new stuff more than once and even then mostly for the lol's.

That's the thing, I like 7 fine up to the star killer base point. Even then it has one of my favorite moments of ANY star wars movies (Rey force gripping the saber out of the snow, i get a small tear every time). I think Daisy Radley does amazing, Poe was fine in the first as a weapon/tool (reminds me of wedge, but his ability being more prominent), Adam Driver was great then got better in TLJ, and Finn was fine too. 

But some of the stuff is just so poorly done it's like they've never read/watched any star wars media before writing the script. It reminds me of how much I hate the new star trek movies (beyond has grown a little on me but I think that, at least in part, has to do with how much it's failed because they tried to sell star trek to a transformers audience and those people are too stupid to enjoy anything that isn't 96% explosions). 

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