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Ardiwynn

New factions

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Do you think that adding new factions such as Yuuzhan Vong, and/or Pirate factions (Crimson dawn, Black Sun and Mandalorians) would be good for the growth of the game? Would it add new players? Seems like Armada (other than Huge ships) won't be getting anything new. Unless they dig back to the clone wars. But it seems there's not a whole lot of variety left in capital ships. 

Just started playing Armada a week ago and I've really been enjoying it. I hope more people start getting into it because it really is a fun and pretty balanced game.

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I would hope they go "back" to the clone wars rather than add in other more contemporary factions like scum or pirates, largely because of the overlap with early empire and late republic. Meaning we could get republic ships with empire versions. Possibly even rebel versions as the rebellion pushed these old crates into service. Not to mention it would still be more or less in cannon to have the Empire purging the last of the CIS forces. Likewise I could see a fleet of loyal republic forces turning their guns on the senate himself. As for rebel v republic well I chalk that up to war games. 

I think the pirate or scum faction works better in X-wing than in armada as I find it hard to believe system pirates would end up with anything comparable to a Victory or an Assault Frigate let alone a ISD or Mc80. 

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37 minutes ago, Ardiwynn said:

Do you think that adding new factions such as Yuuzhan Vong, and/or Pirate factions (Crimson dawn, Black Sun and Mandalorians) would be good for the growth of the game? Would it add new players? Seems like Armada (other than Huge ships) won't be getting anything new. Unless they dig back to the clone wars. But it seems there's not a whole lot of variety left in capital ships. 

Just started playing Armada a week ago and I've really been enjoying it. I hope more people start getting into it because it really is a fun and pretty balanced game.

While I think we can have a serious discussion about Clone Wars and Sequel Trilogy factions, I don’t think that the Yuuzhan Vong or a Pirate faction will be good for the game. Seeing Yuuzhan Vong ships on the table may excite some fans of the EU, but will make the game look and feel less like Star Wars to people like myself. Same issue with a Pirate faction, where most of the ships are still unrecognizable to a fairly hard-core Star Wars fan. And I definitely don’t think adding those factions will get people into the game that aren’t already playing.

Edited by Admiral Calkins
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4 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

While I think we can have a serious discussion about Clone Wars and Sequel Trilogy factions, I don’t think that the Yuuzhan Vong or a Pirate faction will be good for the game. Seeing Yuuzhan Vong ships on the table may excite some fans of the EU, but will make the game look and feel less like Star Wars to people like myself. Same issue with a Pirate faction, where most of the ships are still unrecognizable to a fairly hard-core Star Wars fan. And I definitely don’t think adding those factions will get people into the game that aren’t already playing.

Pretty much this. 


Clone wars could definitely snag a few players especially if they split the core box by faction.... I know I'm just waiting for the day I can remake ep III's opening. 

Teex.gif

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I would really like to see the Clone Wars added to the game and make it 4 factions that way. 

Any other possible faction to ad wouldn't really interest me at this point.

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7 minutes ago, Revanur said:

I would really like to see the Clone Wars added to the game and make it 4 factions that way. 

Any other possible faction to ad wouldn't really interest me at this point.

I'm still game for FO and Resistance. Especially now that they've given us a format to use them in. 

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I think the overall opinion has "generally" been

CIS>Republic>Vongpirates

 

The main thing people had against the pirates was that it would be challenging for them to muster the resources to put up a real fight against the empire (though the same could likely be said about the rebels*)

the issue people have with the Vong is that there are a lot of people, even in the EU fanbase, that really hate their existence in general. I always felt like they were something alien and I liked the result of them making the empire look "less" evil (once the sith were taken out of power) relative to them, but that might very well just be a worf effect.

The CIS / Republic additions are a pretty obvious direction to go with the game, they could do a new clone wars game system expansion or just add a new faction. My concern about doing the clone wars is that a lot of the ships the republic use are actually currently being used by empire / rebel lists currently so it would muddy the implementation and would bug people (plenty of people want a dual faction Quasar, several are irked it didn't happen...I'm not included in that, i prefer obtuse factions similar to starcrafts design). Someone pointed out that the gozanti was actually a separatist ship a couple days ago, I'm not sure that's true (not denying it, just don't know) but that's another point of contention, although I'd argue that the pelta is more iconic of the republic than the Gozanti is of the CIS. 

Who knows, regardless I would like to see new factions added to the game

 

Edited by dominosfleet

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1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I'm still game for FO and Resistance. Especially now that they've given us a format to use them in. 

Don't really want them. Partially due to really not liking ep8, but also don't like a lot of the sequel ships. Especially the bigger is better attitude they gave the FO. Do like the look on some of the FO ship though.

Other issue is the resistance has 4 capital ships in total untill now. So EP9 would really need to bring more to the table to make it a worthwile faction.

Gotta admit, that if they would bring out the sequel ships then I would very likely still buy and play them 

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16 minutes ago, Revanur said:

Don't really want them. Partially due to really not liking ep8, but also don't like a lot of the sequel ships. Especially the bigger is better attitude they gave the FO. Do like the look on some of the FO ship though.

Other issue is the resistance has 4 capital ships in total untill now. So EP9 would really need to bring more to the table to make it a worthwile faction.

Gotta admit, that if they would bring out the sequel ships then I would very likely still buy and play them 

pretty much my thoughts too. The flying wing was WAY too big and I would have LOVED them to have  justified the new fleet / resource capabilities via a star forge instead, that way they could have pulled in some old cannon back into the universe, instead there doesn't seem like there was a lot of thought on how the FO get's it's manpower/resource capability or why the republic is so battered and unwilling to act against the FO. Whatevers, I give 8 a lot of leeway (I'd just prefer Johnson to not direct another movie). I love 7 up to the death noun is introduced and even then I'm generally ok with the character development (I get a small tear in my eye EVERY TIME I see the snow scene where Rey force grips the saber) throughout that film. 

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If they add Vong I'll will drop my support for all things FFG.  That entire idea should have been aborted at the earliest planning stages.

I don't think scum would help Armada.  Scum factions really don't have enough to pull together to put together a decent collection of ships for armada.

I still don't think PT clone war factions are a good idea.  While I honestly like a lot of the designs of the clone wars ships and fighters, there are some serious hurdles to including them.

First off, adding new factions that are not connected to current factions is nearly impossible...especially with the support armada receives and the priority that we exist at.  You would need 1 large, 1 medium, 1 flotilla, 2 small, and a squadron pack for EACH faction just to give them a fighting chance at having any variety and ability to compete in competitions.  So all in all you need 2 large, 2 medium, 2 flotillas, and 4 small ships along with 2 squadron packs just to launch 2 factions.  We've never seen a push like that in Armada.  Even then, the extremely limited selection of ships, variations, commanders, faction limited upgrades, etc would severely hamper these new factions from being able to compete with the existing factions.  This would require unprecedented FFG support to pull off and still give you a fraction of what you need to be a competitive faction.  On top of that, having a massive wave or waves to get those factions started would leave the existing factions without anything...which could upset existing players.

On top of that, you have a problem where you'd splinter your player base.  I highly doubt that PT clone war factions would bring in a noticeable amount of new players.  What is more likely is some existing players simply change what they buy.  This doesn't help FFG.  Creating more SKUs without creating more sales isn't good for business.  Future waves would need to include 4 factions.

Don't forget that some people will be turned away if their factions no longer get support.  And some players will quit just because of new factions.  Some players will quit because good stuff is locked behind yet more factions they don't want to buy.

I'm afraid that Clone Wars as new factions would be the beginning of the end.

The clone wars don't mesh well with the current stuff either.  The clones are the good guys for 2.5 movies worth of material...so are they joined to the rebels?  Or since their equipment more resembles the empires, and they are the basis of the empire, are they part of the empire?  Seems weird to have General Kenobi as part of the Empire, but it also seems odd to have Lt. Tarkin as a Rebel.

I'd think it would be more likely to move into the new trilogy with new factions that are part of the current factions and eventually allowing them to split off as separate entities once they have enough units to support such a move.  However the 2 movies we have so far really haven't provided us with much new material to work with.  There is new stuff in the comics for sure, and maybe that's enough to get us started.

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2 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

the issue people have with the Vong is that there are a lot of people, even in the EU fanbase, that really hate their existence in general. I always felt like they were something alien and I liked the result of them making the empire look "less" evil (once the sith were taken out of power) relative to them, but that might very well just be a worf effect.

From a game design standpoint, the Vong do offer the nice advantage of being really different.  That 'organic' element would allow FFG to more easily explore different combos that would be problematic with existing ships (the whole 'dovin basals' thing as a distinct upgrade slot, for example).

And while it may alienate some players, it would also bring in other players - after all the Warhammer setting gets no small number of people playing specifically because of the Chaos God factions.

Prior to the Disney acquisition, I would have said it was a safe bet that FFG (on their own, and limited to the six movies and EU that existed at the time) would all but certainly have brought the Vong to the game.  After Disney?  Well it'd still make sense from a game design and marketing perspective, but I would guess Disney just won't allow it.

Quote

Who knows, regardless I would like to see new factions added to the game

FWIW, in canon, you still have a lot of "non-aligned" groups that weren't part of the Empire or Rebellion.  It wouldn't be that difficult to make a third faction entirely of 'unaligned sectors' to include:

  • Hapes Consortium (much of it exists in non-canon sources, but has been referenced in canon) - these, FWIW, would be net-new ships maybe not familiar to non-EU fans
  • Mining Guild, and likely a few other formerly-Separatist or other Republic-era groups that co-exist with the Empire for control of some distant or less important regions - here we introduce a bunch more Clone Wars-era ships, so familiar to those who've only seen the movies
  • Corporate Sector Authority - re-use of more Clone Wars-era ships (including notably the Victory-class Star Destroyer), as well as a few native designs

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I for one loved the Vong. I know I'm in minority but I think iz was a shame when Disney axed the last season of the Clone Wars that also included an episode featuring them.

But other than the prequel factions I don't see any other faction that could be logically and viably make for Armada. As it was said before, no faction had the necessary firepower to match the Empire in any battle except perhaps the Hutts. The Hapes Consortium or the Corporate Sector have the same problem as the Vong: they are too much in thr EU to be allowed by the Mouse.

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18 minutes ago, Norell said:

The Hapes Consortium or the Corporate Sector have the same problem as the Vong: they are too much in thr EU to be allowed by the Mouse.

FWIW, authors have slipped both in.  The Hapes Consortium and CSA do both exist in post-Disney canon, at this point.  And, IMHO, one of the things Disney has done a fair job at, is emphasize how weak and incomplete the Empire's total control of the galaxy was (certainly implied in various EU material, but absolutely something you'd see wildly different takes on from one novel to the next).  The Disney-era more clearly (and this is a GOOD thing, IMHO, that the better EU material also realized) defined the Empire's holdings as more limited to the core systems, ergo things like allowing the Mining Guild to exist so they didn't have to chase down every little system; or the Corporate Sector Authority where there was an established significant sector-wide government inclined to be very friendly to them if not willing to join.

(I mean, would the Empire have conquered them eventually, after the Rebellion was put down?  Sure, of course.  But...priorities, man!  Although, of course, that's EXACTLY the kind of thing that makes for interesting multi-faction gaming...)

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14 hours ago, Revanur said:

Don't really want them. Partially due to really not liking ep8, but also don't like a lot of the sequel ships. Especially the bigger is better attitude they gave the FO. Do like the look on some of the FO ship though.

Other issue is the resistance has 4 capital ships in total untill now. So EP9 would really need to bring more to the table to make it a worthwile faction.

Gotta admit, that if they would bring out the sequel ships then I would very likely still buy and play them 

Didn’t somebody do a rundown of capital ships shown onscreen for episodes 4-6? It is a surprisingly small number in most movies.

 

For new ships onscreen:

EP4 was just ISD and CR90?

EP5 was just SSD, GR75, nebulon?

EP7 was Tector, Liberty, Home One, wingless liberty, bra’ha’tok (spelling?)

 

Looking at prequels, I thought the 3rd movie was also where they finally showed a large number of capital ships. 

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17 hours ago, Ardiwynn said:

Do you think that adding new factions such as Yuuzhan Vong, and/or Pirate factions (Crimson dawn, Black Sun and Mandalorians) would be good for the growth of the game? Would it add new players? Seems like Armada (other than Huge ships) won't be getting anything new. Unless they dig back to the clone wars. But it seems there's not a whole lot of variety left in capital ships. 

Just started playing Armada a week ago and I've really been enjoying it. I hope more people start getting into it because it really is a fun and pretty balanced game.

I'd love to see the Vong, but unfortunately it's almost 100% sure that they won't be into the game because the mouse erased them from the universe.
Anyway, I could at least create a Vong fleet with some 3D printed ships and I really like them:

I wish there were more models to get more variety, but it's good to at least have those ones.

Regarding pirate factions, while they seem to do good in X-Wing, I don't think they'll fit in Armada as it would be really rare to see a group of pirates commanding an armada o capital ships into battle. At least I wouldn't like much to see that.

As most of the others, I believe that if there will be new factions, those would be CIS and Republic.
Also could be possible to see First Order and Resistance, but I think more possible (and personally prefer) to see CIS and Republic.

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I am still hopeful FFG will add Clone Wars factions, with GCW conversions. I am a bit less convinced we could see Sequel content, but not without hope. As for adding a third faction to the GCW era, I highly doubt it. That's why I am slowly making my own. ;)

Mostly for an, Armada based, RPG style, narrative campaign.

So far my list includes, but my not be limited to:

Mercenary  Faction, (to include pirates, mandalorians, smugglers...)

Hapes Consortium

Corporate Sector Athority

Imperial Customs, (the imperial coast guard to the imperial navy, replacing large (& possibly medium) ships with Golan defense platforms)

Sector Defense Fleets, (some of the same ships used by the Rebellion, but with several other, antiquated or sector specific ships mixed in.)

The Hutts, (sadly, no ships for this yet, but I have some ideas.)

The Chiss, (sadly, no ships for this yet, I may need to design these almost from scratch.)

And finally, The Mining Guild, (nearly complete, under play test.) 

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I'm going to be a dissenting voice and say that I quite like the idea of a pirate/mercenary/independent force, but also agree that it probably doesn't fit too well within the current structure of the game. Thematically speaking, I think pirate fleets would be much more suited to 200 point taskforce battles or asymmetric games where the pirates earn victory points by escaping from larger "regular" fleets.

I'm really not sold on the Vong, but otherwise can see little reason not to introduce prequel/sequel factions...indeed, I think we're approaching the point where that is the logical way to expand the game.

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5 hours ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

I'd love to see the Vong, but unfortunately it's almost 100% sure that they won't be into the game because the mouse erased them from the universe.


 

 

I get the feeling that the looming threat described in the new Thrawn books may end up being them but that's only speculation and, I'm sure, wishful thinking. Like others said, the Vong finally started taking Star Wars into a more "Grimdark"™ direction and you're right that there's no way the mouse would take it there. 

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11 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

I get the feeling that the looming threat described in the new Thrawn books may end up being them but that's only speculation and, I'm sure, wishful thinking. Like others said, the Vong finally started taking Star Wars into a more "Grimdark"™ direction and you're right that there's no way the mouse would take it there. 

I concur that "grimdark" and the mouse don't go well with each other, but that is not the the only obstacle to the Vong. In essence, star wars is not sci fi , but fantasy: Knights, princesses, mystical powers, and of course the great battle of good vs evil. All that gets merely a space opera coloring. 

The Vong in contrast are true aliens, not dwars and hobbits like the other non human species in star wars. That was the reasons they were hated by such a big part of the community. They did not like the genre crossover. And I don't know whether the mouse likes it either. 

Edited by Darth Veggie

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7 hours ago, Church14 said:

Didn’t somebody do a rundown of capital ships shown onscreen for episodes 4-6? It is a surprisingly small number in most movies.

 

For new ships onscreen:

EP4 was just ISD and CR90?

EP5 was just SSD, GR75, nebulon?

EP7 was Tector, Liberty, Home One, wingless liberty, bra’ha’tok (spelling?)

 

Looking at prequels, I thought the 3rd movie was also where they finally showed a large number of capital ships. 

But the difference with the amount of ships in episodes 4-6 and episodes 7-8 is that with the Rebels and Imperials you know that they have more ships of the same type and also ships from other sources. The resistance was the 4 ships we saw in ep8. They didn't have any other capital ships. So the resistance didn't only have 4 type of capitals, but just 4 capitals.

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2 minutes ago, Revanur said:

So the resistance didn't only have 4 type of capitals, but just 4 capitals

In Episode 8 the Resistance had 4 capital ships on hand. They had some of their squadrons elsewhere, and potentially (although I don't think it is explicit) other ships elsewhere. Obviously by the end those 4 ships were gone.

Episode 9 could easily include a lot more ships on the Resistance side (and probably will, to give some kind of balance to the large First Order fleet). Which isn't too crazy; the Rebellion went from a frigate, a couple of corvettes and some transports at the end of 5 to several cruisers by 6. Most likely these ships will come from the various local sector or planetary fleets that are still around - but I have a bad feeling the film will fail to explain this or make it clear at all. We'll just be expected to fill in the blanks between the Resistance being a dozen people on the Millennium Falcon (ignoring their other forces not shown in 8) to a sizeable fleet and large political movement.

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