Ok, Commanders and Operatives are good now...

[Alpha17 2,853]

8 minutes ago, FSD said:

Am I the only one who is basically shouting, "Give me both!!".

I want Commander Hera and Operative Cassian.  I want the rest of Rogue One & Phoenix Squad as a Special Forces release that can be run as a single unit or have members added to corps units via the Heavy or Personnel slots.  I want Hoth troopers and Partisans as corps choices.  Give me Saw as a Commander.  Mud Troopers, Imperial Navy Troopers, Dewbacks, Thrawn, Tarkin, Mandilorians...

Yes, Yes, Yes!!!!

I want to be able to write my own stories with all of these things, whether it be my personal canon account of Han and Leia running into those bounty hunter on Ord Mandell or a missing chapter from Twilight Company where my rebels are slugging it out in some outer rim planet under the command of "faux-Gideon".

2

Oh, absolutely.  I don't know if anyone really clamoring for ONLY generic trooper units, but a better mix than we currently have would be nice.  The last Corps units released were the Snows and Fleet troopers, while we've had several commanders since then, and even enough operatives to play catch up.  A new named character every 2-3 generic units would be a welcome change from the current release schedule. 

[KommanderKeldoth 3,141]

1 minute ago, thepopemobile100 said:

You could just take Veers and use the generic command cards though. Even without his command cards he still can at least hand out more aim tokens then the generic and is better in a fight than them too.

Well, yeah, he costs more points.  At issue is whether it's too few points difference.

Personally when I run Veers I feel like I'm only using him for his command cards (when running bikes and AT-ST).  I never use him to actually fight.

[KommanderKeldoth 3,141]

1 minute ago, Alpha17 said:

Oh, absolutely.  I don't know if anyone really clamoring for ONLY generic trooper units, but a better mix than we currently have would be nice.  The last Corps units released were the Snows and Fleet troopers, while we've had several commanders since then, and even enough operatives to play catch up.  A new named character every 2-3 generic units would be a welcome change from the current release schedule. 

More support and heavy support would be welcome too

[thepopemobile100 977]

3 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

Upgrading the Imperial Officer to Veers also means either cutting an entire extra unit or cutting a bunch of useful upgrades.  That 30 points has to come from somewhere.

When building an army I've always found myself with at least 20 points of extra room and just end up taking extra junk that doesn't end up mattering. Depending on the list it is easy to find 30 points of stuff to cut, especially if you also have been stacking extra trooper upgrades on units.

[thepopemobile100 977]

5 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Well, yeah, he costs more points.  At issue is whether it's too few points difference.

Personally when I run Veers I feel like I'm only using him for his command cards (when running bikes and AT-ST).  I never use him to actually fight.

The point difference really isn't much between the two, but when using a named commander who is weak to pierce it begs to be shot at by snipers. If you're not using his cards and have already planned on losing him, it's not a bad idea to use him as a decoy from snipers to keep them from harassing other units. Once they've killed Veers, it doesn't really matter as you don't lose any of your command cards and they've wasted their time trying to kill a commander before playing their cards not knowing that it didn't matter in the first place.

Veers and Leia both really shouldn't be fighting. If they are, something has gone wrong and you're probably losing your commander.

[Alpha17 2,853]

9 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

More support and heavy support would be welcome too

Agreed, though I can understand FFG being slower in releasing the heavy support units, and waiting until one wave of them is out and established before moving on to the next one.  They played the Wave 1 units too conservatively, and it looks like they're taking steps to address that with the Occupier and land speeder.  Best to see how those changes work out before they introduce an AT-DP or DT, and a Rebel repulsor tank. 

For "light" support, I absolutely would love to see more units.  Swoops, AT-PTs, Rebel Mk II cannons, and mortar teams would all be welcome additions. 

[KommanderKeldoth 3,141]

2 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

The point difference really isn't much between the two, but when using a named commander who is weak to pierce it begs to be shot at by snipers. If you're not using his cards and have already planned on losing him, it's not a bad idea to use him as a decoy from snipers to keep them from harassing other units. Once they've killed Veers, it doesn't really matter as you don't lose any of your command cards and they've wasted their time trying to kill a commander before playing their cards not knowing that it didn't matter in the first place.

Veers and Leia both really shouldn't be fighting. If they are, something has gone wrong and you're probably losing your commander.

This is my point exactly.  If you are not using his cards, and his attack and defense aren't coming into play (his superior defense die doesn't help against Pierce) then why not save 30 points and take a generic as sniper bait?

[thepopemobile100 977]

10 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

This is my point exactly.  If you are not using his cards, and his attack and defense aren't coming into play (his superior defense die doesn't help against Pierce) then why not save 30 points and take a generic as sniper bait?

Because if you're just using the generic, then it doesn't really matter much if they die or not. If you have officers built into squads then you don't lose anything of value once they die. The generic doesn't work as sniper bait because of that. Veers at least has unique command cards that are lost if they aren't played. That's more incentive to kill Veers since most everyone assumes that he'll have his unique cards.

[KrisWall 966]

14 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

The point difference really isn't much between the two, but when using a named commander who is weak to pierce it begs to be shot at by snipers. If you're not using his cards and have already planned on losing him, it's not a bad idea to use him as a decoy from snipers to keep them from harassing other units. Once they've killed Veers, it doesn't really matter as you don't lose any of your command cards and they've wasted their time trying to kill a commander before playing their cards not knowing that it didn't matter in the first place.

Veers and Leia both really shouldn't be fighting. If they are, something has gone wrong and you're probably losing your commander.

I think maybe there is a good argument to be made for taking Veers and the Maximum Firepower command card and plan on not really using him after round one other than for Spotter and Inspire.  You're essentially spending an extra 30 points for a solid early game attack and maybe 4+ extra aim tokens over the course of a gain.  All of your other command cards are generics.

[thepopemobile100 977]

4 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

I think maybe there is a good argument to be made for taking Veers and the Maximum Firepower command card and plan on not really using him after round one other than for Spotter and Inspire.  You're essentially spending an extra 30 points for a solid early game attack and maybe 4+ extra aim tokens over the course of a gain.  All of your other command cards are generics.

That's what I'm trying to get at.

[KrisWall 966]

4 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

That's what I'm trying to get at.

Took me awhile to come around!  I still think it's iffy because I think a savvy player will ignore him.  I also don't like his helmet.  It's so goofy looking.

[thepopemobile100 977]

2 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

Took me awhile to come around!  I still think it's iffy because I think a savvy player will ignore him.  I also don't like his helmet.  It's so goofy looking.

I agree with you about his helmet. Never liked the imperial army ones. I think it's a strategy that'll work the first time against an opponent, but will fail if used repeatedly. It might be fun to keep the list the same, but switch in all the unique cards after a couple games of using all generics to throw someone off.

[KommanderKeldoth 3,141]

13 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

I think maybe there is a good argument to be made for taking Veers and the Maximum Firepower command card and plan on not really using him after round one other than for Spotter and Inspire.  You're essentially spending an extra 30 points for a solid early game attack and maybe 4+ extra aim tokens over the course of a gain.  All of your other command cards are generics.

Interesting.  I think I understand now.  It could work, but like @KrisWall says, a savvy player might ignore him because his other command cards are not nearly as threatening unless you are running Weiss AT-ST.  Also if your opponent isn't running snipers, or is using them to primarily harass Corps units you've just left 30 points on the table for not a lot of gain. 

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

I do hold out some hope that two generic officers will work well. But getting a second of each is a whole other logistical ball of wax for me: Legion did a good job capturing my attention but hasn't been doing a good job of HOLDING my attention, as a customer. My not-Hoth empire army isn't captivating enough to justify a second box of not-Hoth officers, and my rebels would just bring up a lot of questions regarding paint schemes since that faction still doesn't have any real Hoth corps or commanders.

I still personally need General Reikan or something like him, but otherwise I think we finally have enough commanders from a purely gameplay standpoint. The army can hold 2, we have 4, so it is enough.

I'd still like a 3rd operative per faction, and a non-unique one at that. Otherwise the force organization rules aren't actual rules.

3 corps is the ideal so that you can collect 1 of everything in the game and legally play, and because we're missing exactly one per side of very popular "action figure" troop types of the OT. Hoth rebels and imperial navy troopers. They made the basic stormtroopers look enough like the ANH sandtrooper squad that I don't feel like I need a special unit of them, except for dewbacks someday.

 

 

[thepopemobile100 977]

19 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Interesting.  I think I understand now.  It could work, but like @KrisWall says, a savvy player might ignore him because his other command cards are not nearly as threatening unless you are running Weiss AT-ST.  Also if your opponent isn't running snipers, or is using them to primarily harass Corps units you've just left 30 points on the table for not a lot of gain. 

As it currently stands, I don't see snipers getting taken off the meta table anytime soon. You are right though, Veer's command cards aren't great in a trooper list. Maybe it'd work better with Krennic, but 40 is harder to justify.

[buckero0 1,956]

Veers' helmet gives him extra defense against snipers.

 

That, and this one time he shot down a snowspeeder after rerolling into more crits !

[Mep 2,291]

19 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

 

Troopers are troopers?  They're not supposed to have flavor?  What?  Isn't that like saying commanders are commanders, so we don't need any more?

Yes, stromtroopers are stromtroopers are stromtroopers. That is the whole point of vanilla corp troopers. They are generic. The more specialized units with extra flavor are your special and support units. We just got a pack to upgrade corp units to give them a bit more variety.  I can see a special weapons pack for them in the future as well. Maybe an alt sculpt pack. End of the day, standard infantry is just that, normal standard infantry, repeated over and over again.

[Alpha17 2,853]

34 minutes ago, Mep said:

Yes, stromtroopers are stromtroopers are stromtroopers. That is the whole point of vanilla corp troopers. They are generic. The more specialized units with extra flavor are your special and support units. We just got a pack to upgrade corp units to give them a bit more variety.  I can see a special weapons pack for them in the future as well. Maybe an alt sculpt pack. End of the day, standard infantry is just that, normal standard infantry, repeated over and over again.

No, they're not.  At all.  Neither the real world nor any Star Wars media backs that up.  As someone who has experience as both airborne infantry and mechanized infantry, I can tell you that in a galaxy far, far away or in one closer to home, there are tons of differences.  Light infantry are different from mechanized or heavy infantry, which are different from fortress troops which are different from airborne.  They're still infantry, ie, what this game is supposed to focus on, but have different skill sets and equipment.  Even if you have a "generic" or "vanilla" infantry unit, you need your variations on the theme to make the standard standout in comparison, and you don't need to go into Special forces units to do so.

Using the Empire as an example, we currently have "standard" or line infantry in the form of stormtroopers.  Great.  We also have snowtroopers, which can alternatively be used as line infantry or assault troops.  Also great.  That leaves a ton of room for variation and differing roles.  Shore troopers, for instance, would make great light infantry units.  Lacking in firepower, but making up for it in mobility.  In gameplay, they would be a cross between scouts and stormtroopers.  Navy Troopers can follow the lead of the Specialists pack, and be easily configured into different technical positions, or they could be the Empire's security troops, and get defensive bonuses.  Rocket troopers could easily be adapted into either corps units as airborne troops, or as special forces. (which I'd expect them to be, while leaving true "airborne" units to the Clones)  And, again, Mudtroopers could be cheap cannon fodder.

I'm not expecting all these units to be released tomorrow, but mixed in with other releases would be a welcome change from movie/show characters every other month.  Moreover, there is simply no reason not to do these units.  They fit the game, follow established canon and lore, and are just as iconic, if not more so, than many units that have already been released.  

[Derrault 1,091]

8 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

No, they're not.  

http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TX_-_Mudtrooper?fbclid=IwAR39jiYp0dwlt8s5QAKo3r0MGDUcQsmejXxqX4rdj41PXOBMjSJ1j98XkNM

Besides the fact that they are specifically identified as "Imperial Army" in the film, we see them use weapons not usually associated with the Empire, and even their lore as expendable troops would offer a different way to handle a corps unit.

And that's not even going into the range of vehicles that could be brought in for just the Empire alone as light or heavy support units.  AT-PTs, AT-DTs, AT-DPs, etc are all great for this scale, but are being ignored because every third release has to be a named character. 

Yeah, breastplate, bucket hat, and a mask. What do you seem to think is meaningfully different???

[Alpha17 2,853]

1 minute ago, Derrault said:

Yeah, breastplate, bucket hat, and a mask. What do you seem to think is meaningfully different???

You mean besides the completely different uniform, armor, weapons, identified branch, tactics, and attitude?  Nothing, I guess.  How silly of me to think little things like that should have an impact. 

[UnitOmega 2,818]

The helmet and flak vest are apparently pretty good if Veers has Red Defense, where as rebels and their sweet Leather Jackets and Coats are only White. 

[Tubb 163]

I really can agree with people around here saying that corps should stormtroopers and that's all, we got them, and that is fine and enough. But I am not going to buy a third stormtrooper squad with the same exact poses again. Please, keep on doing multipose and begin with stormtrooper multipose packs... then I will not miss the navy and army troopers, although I would really like to have at least one squad of each... just see the "reinforcements" that get out of the bunker in Endor and the mix is about same number of navy troops than stormtroopers...

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Tubb

[smickletz 200]

On 2/7/2019 at 4:59 PM, KommanderKeldoth said:

I don't know about you, but when I play Boba Fett he gets annihilated if he gets caught in line of sight of only 2 or 3 corps units (or a corps and 1 rotary cannon AT-RT).  Hordes of generic soldiers are still very strong in this game and activation swamping will continue to be a valid strategy.  The other thing is that this is an objective based game, Luke and Sabine can only accomplish so much in 6 turns, whereas many corps and special forces can do a lot more to get objectives done.

I’ve found Boba players particularly surprised when he gets shredded by non-piercing corps and the rotary. Han melts against him though. I really love the balance characters bring and how they influence decisions of list building and play style. I can’t play against Veers the same way as against the Emperor. Efficient lists of generic units are all good and well, but the unique characters really influence play style as they should. 

[Mep 2,291]

@Alpha17 You might be missing the fact that this is a game. Standard corps units are vanilla and that is why you can take 6 of them and must have 3. There is enough variation already with the standard corp units that you have choices. The fact you can take up to 6 means they shouldn't get too flavorful as people can really exploit them. I am sure FFG will make as many toys as possible so they can make more money. So rest assured there will be more. However the variety in units is really going to be seen outside of the normal infantry and they will be limited in both actual numbers that can be taken and by how many points they cost. You're not suppose to have 6 sniper units on the board or a dozen speeder bikes. You do need to have at least a dozen vanilla troopers though. The game is pretty good that way.

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

3 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

No, they're not.  At all.  Neither the real world nor any Star Wars media backs that up.  As someone who has experience as both airborne infantry and mechanized infantry, I can tell you that in a galaxy far, far away or in one closer to home, there are tons of differences.  Light infantry are different from mechanized or heavy infantry, which are different from fortress troops which are different from airborne.  They're still infantry, ie, what this game is supposed to focus on, but have different skill sets and equipment.

But are those differences significant enough to register in the grainy snapshot that is a gaming stat card? In historical gaming there were tons of differences in a lot of real world units, that aren't worth measuring in unique wargame stats.