[SotB] Any new cyberware rules?

[lyinggod 184]

2 hours ago, Colgrevance said:

Thanks for explaining fairness to me.  I found Cyberware to be overpowered in the Star Wars games, and I will stand by my opinion. I respect your differing view and expect you to do the same.

Anyway, I'm still curious if there are EMP or other weapons that specifically affect cyberware in SotB.

I apologize if I came across as condescending, it was not intentional.  I was merely trying to point out that ultimately its the GM who determines what balance means, whether that's playing the game RAW or making adjustments to achieve whatever they feel balanced/fair actually means. Changing RAW isn't a bad thing since do so is RAW. Even if there are no EMP weapons in SotB, you can always add it. Again, apologies. 

[Cantriped 103]

4 hours ago, c__beck said:

"In addition, any character may get access to equipment or special powers that temporarily raise one or more of their characteristics higher than 5."

You quoted the relevent rule yourself (GCRB 44). Cybernetics are equipment (GCRB 177; SotB 104), so is an Exosuit (GCRB 178; SotB 94).

GCRB 177 "...cybernetics are special pieces of gear..." and gear is basically defined by the GCRB 82 as any equipment that isn't categorized as a weapon or armor (or vehicle when using those optional rules).

IMO, the boldly quoted section is just CYA, the only game element it applies to is Dedication, which includes the same language. So it only exists to alert GMs they shouldn't write Dedication (Improved) or let players break the base-characteristic maxima using a genie's wish or something.

Edited February 11 by Cantriped

[c__beck 487]

7 hours ago, Cantriped said:

You quoted the relevent rule yourself (GCRB 44). Cybernetics are equipment (GCRB 177; SotB 104), so is an Exosuit (GCRB 178; SotB 94).

GCRB 177 "...cybernetics are special pieces of gear..." and gear is basically defined by the GCRB 82 as any equipment that isn't categorized as a weapon or armor (or vehicle when using those optional rules).

IMO, the boldly quoted section is just CYA, the only game element it applies to is Dedication, which includes the same language. So it only exists to alert GMs they shouldn't write Dedication (Improved) or let players break the base-characteristic maxima using a genie's wish or something.

I’m focusing more on the word ‘temporary.’ I, personally, don’t see cybernetics as, “equipment…that temporarily raise one…of their characteristics.” As far as im concerned cybernetics are permanent, barring their removal. They’re not a gun that has to be checked at the door or powered armour that can’t be worn in public.

[Cantriped 103]

One more important bit of supporting evidence for my position can be found in the T-4 Talent "Overcharge".

GCRB 80: "...If your character succeeds [at activating the Overcharge talent], until the end of the encounter, the chosen cybernetic instead provides +2 to the affected characteristic rating (to a maximum of 7)…"
If cybernetics were intended to be subject to the clause on GCRB 44, the clarification quoted above would give a value of 5 (instead of 7). Since a value of 7 is only achievable by a PC using the GCRB if their base characteristic is 5, and cybernetics can increase that to 6 (or 7 when Overcharge increases the benefits of a chosen cybernetic implant by +1).

Edited February 11 by Cantriped

[c__beck 487]

That's a good catch, @Cantriped . However (devil's advocate here), it could just be a copy/paste from SWRPG. Sadly, there are a lot of those to be found in the CRB—cf the boost defense vehicle action :p)

[Cantriped 103]

1 hour ago, c__beck said:

(devil's advocate here)

I don't think that phrase means what you think it does...

Edited February 11 by Cantriped

[hellrazoromega 2]

On 2/11/2019 at 6:04 AM, Cantriped said:

One more important bit of supporting evidence for my position can be found in the T-4 Talent "Overcharge".

GCRB 80: "...If your character succeeds [at activating the Overcharge talent], until the end of the encounter, the chosen cybernetic instead provides +2 to the affected characteristic rating (to a maximum of 7)…"
If cybernetics were intended to be subject to the clause on GCRB 44, the clarification quoted above would give a value of 5 (instead of 7). Since a value of 7 is only achievable by a PC using the GCRB if their base characteristic is 5, and cybernetics can increase that to 6 (or 7 when Overcharge increases the benefits of a chosen cybernetic implant by +1).

I think the talent is just oddly worded. I am reading that Overcharge gives you a +2, not an additional +1. In the former case, the cybernetic raised your stat from 4 to 5 and overdrive makes it 7, in the latter case, this would seem to allow a base stat 6 with an additional +1 making 7. The key is it says +2 to a max of 7 not an additional +1 to a max of 7. However, I agree it is a bit ambiguous and it stumped me for a while, until I gave it a think 🙄  I could totally see your read. Anyway, I shot FFG a rules question request.

[Cantriped 103]

9 hours ago, hellrazoromega said:

I think the talent is just oddly worded. I am reading that Overcharge gives you a +2, not an additional +1. In the former case, the cybernetic raised your stat from 4 to 5 and overdrive makes it 7, in the latter case, this would seem to allow a base stat 6 with an additional +1 making 7. The key is it says +2 to a max of 7 not an additional +1 to a max of 7. However, I agree it is a bit ambiguous and it stumped me for a while, until I gave it a think 🙄  I could totally see your read. Anyway, I shot FFG a rules question request.

Nay... The talent only improves the value granted by the Cybernetics by one, for a total of +2. Which is already an exception to the general rules for Cybernetics. Note that in either case I'm not quoting the entire talent (see the GCRB for that), but see below:

"choose one of their cybernetic implants that grants them one of the following: +1 to a characteristic rating...

"...If your character succeeds, until the end of the encounter, the chosen cybernetic instead provides +2 to the affected characteristic..."

Note use of the term 'instead'.

Edited Friday at 01:50 PM by Cantriped

[Cantriped 103]

The odd wording is CYA I think, Just in case FFG later released an exceptional Implant that provided a +2 bonus. They wouldn't want players able to hit Brawn 8 or 9 when the soft cap is supposed to be 5 for good reasons.

Edited Friday at 01:54 PM by Cantriped

[hellrazoromega 2]

4 hours ago, Cantriped said:

Nay... The talent only improves the value granted by the Cybernetics by one, for a total of +2. Which is already an exception to the general rules for Cybernetics. Note that in either case I'm not quoting the entire talent (see the GCRB for that), but see below:

"choose one of their cybernetic implants that grants them one of the following: +1 to a characteristic rating...

"...If your character succeeds, until the end of the encounter, the chosen cybernetic instead provides +2 to the affected characteristic..."

Note use of the term 'instead'.

Yep,  it was too **** late and I just read right over "instead," that makes a mess, IMO. I hate it when there are things like this that establish precedents that shoot a major rule in the foot like that. I don't mind temp boosts over 5 but the wording of Overdrive is getting changed at my table with a quickness.

Edited Friday at 06:19 PM by hellrazoromega
clarity

[Gundark 8]

I don't see the overcharge rule and the dice limit rule as conflicting. I would interpret that overcharge could boost Brawn to a 7 (thus temporarily boosting wounds/Soak ). However the p.44 rule in the main book still applies and only a max of 5 green/yellow dice are rolled 

[TheSapient 490]

39 minutes ago, Gundark said:

 only a max of 5 green/yellow dice are rolled 

Does it say this?

[Cantriped 103]

4 hours ago, TheSapient said:

Does it say this?

I haven't found a source for that rule yet, so I think not. Even the first paragraph of the Characteristic section indicates the possibility of exceptions to the 1-5 point range. Further, the call-out on page 15 discusses that the Characteristic Cap is soft, why, and why we shouldn't break that general rule except, well, in exceptional circumstances. E.G. a Giant's 6 Brawn.

[drainsmith 267]

p44
"No characteristic can be increased higher than 5, either in character creation or in gameplay. However, this limit only applies to player characters (your character). Non-player characters (also referred to as adversaries) can have characteristics higher than 5. In addition, any character may get access to equipment or special powers that temporarily raise one or more of their characteristics higher than 5. However, your character’s base characteristics still max out at 5."

That is all it says on the subject. Overcharge specifically overrides this rule since it gives a number that is the new maximum for while that talent is active.