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Old School Star Wars

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In the Star Wars galaxy, there is no F-word, no S-word and no B-word.  Appropriate swear words include d.amn, h.ell, nerf herder and laser brain.  (I actually thought Poe Dameron's use of "a.ss" in TLJ didn't feel quite Star Wars-y, although the movie overall was pretty Star Wars-y IMO.)

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2 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

In the Star Wars galaxy, there is no F-word, no S-word and no B-word.  Appropriate swear words include d.amn, h.ell, nerf herder and laser brain.  (I actually thought Poe Dameron's use of "a.ss" in TLJ didn't feel quite Star Wars-y, although the movie overall was pretty Star Wars-y IMO.)

Maybe not in Basic, but everybody knows the best swear words are in Huttese (or Ewok).

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16 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

In the Star Wars galaxy, there is no F-word, no S-word and no B-word.  Appropriate swear words include d.amn, h.ell, nerf herder and laser brain.  (I actually thought Poe Dameron's use of "a.ss" in TLJ didn't feel quite Star Wars-y, although the movie overall was pretty Star Wars-y IMO.)

It's an older link, but it checks out:

A Mouth Like An Intergalactic Princess—Cussing in a Galaxy Far, Far Away

The blog article was written some time ago (and pulls heavily from Legends), but it's a handy reference to have for those PCs (or players) that are prone to dishing out the sodium but want to keep the words within the general context of the setting.

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12 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

It's an older link, but it checks out:

A Mouth Like An Intergalactic Princess—Cussing in a Galaxy Far, Far Away

The blog article was written some time ago (and pulls heavily from Legends), but it's a handy reference to have for those PCs (or players) that are prone to dishing out the sodium but want to keep the words within the general context of the setting.

This caught my eye:

"Bomarr cast-off - An insult insinuating that an individual is rejected by the Bantha-worshipping Bomarr religious order, or simply a kind of outcast (Knights of the Old Republic)."

By all means, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the thing about Bomarr monks that they remove their brain and place in a jar connected to a spider-like droid? Meaning that the cast-off would be the body, minus the brain?

So it makes more sense if "Bomarr cast-off" was just a roundabout way of calling someone brainless.

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On 2/6/2019 at 1:17 PM, Archlyte said:

Thanks for the post Tramp :)The problem with datapads being a one stop computer tool is that the big terminals and consoles are absolutely ridiculous at that point. Also I find that datapads are often used as story bypass widgets. No need to go research in the library, or to use a terminal or computer of the facility, just use the datapad for everything. It's not that it makes sense for datapads to basically be little notepads and minor computer tools, it's that it fits the feel of the first movies where characters do things manually. So I'm ok with them being like a basic display interface tool, but not an actual computer that can vie with other computers in functionality. Also because I have no real WiFi they don't serve the purpose of modern tablets or laptops. 

Also a lot of what I said in the OP probably doesn't hold up to canon or legends status simply because those movies predated the massive rush to codify everything brought on by the original RPG books and the paperback books. What seemed to happen was that Pablo Hidalgo and the other guys at West End Games did a lot of fill-in-the-blank with stuff from the movies and usually were not super creative in how they did it, often taking the path of creative least resistance. They also sometime would do things that were counter to the use of things in the movies like assuming a bunch of assassin droids have to be around because one was in the movies. You can assume that, but you could also assume the opposite. If you had a word processor and worked for west end games in 1989 or whatever you got to codify it cause George wasn't really minding the store and didn't give a crap.  

What I mean by this is that you can choose to use whatever material you like, and I think that is great. I am currently playing in a game that is in no way close to my version of Star Wars, but I respect the GM and I don't undermine or complain. But since I am trying to go off of what is in the original movies and do minimal extrapolation sometimes explaining everything runs counter purpose to my endeavor. Just want you to know I appreciate your input and where you are coming from though.

I will say that you can actually use the text they use in the book for data pads and still NOT have them used as Story bypass widgets. You can put data on a data pad, but that does not mean that your data pad HAS all the data, you have to go to the library, find the right data pad, find the right file and if you want that file on your own data pad you need to plug it in and download it, that can take up space does your data pad even have enough space to store more than a single books worth of information? Especially when that book likely has 3d holo display. You can have it interface with other computers, kind of like R2 plugging into a door to unlock and open it, but it is not a hacking tool that can do anything. In my game I use it to interface with and open a door, sometimes a locked door with all kinds of disadvantage because it is not the right tool for the job, I use it to write notes down in for my character and I use it's built in headphones and audio pick up to make it double as a com link (basically a short wave radio). Essentially it is a note pad/ book/ short wave radio/ extremely simple computer tool that can only do the most basic of computer things. 

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On 2/10/2019 at 5:00 PM, tunewalker said:

I will say that you can actually use the text they use in the book for data pads and still NOT have them used as Story bypass widgets. You can put data on a data pad, but that does not mean that your data pad HAS all the data, you have to go to the library, find the right data pad, find the right file and if you want that file on your own data pad you need to plug it in and download it, that can take up space does your data pad even have enough space to store more than a single books worth of information? Especially when that book likely has 3d holo display. You can have it interface with other computers, kind of like R2 plugging into a door to unlock and open it, but it is not a hacking tool that can do anything. In my game I use it to interface with and open a door, sometimes a locked door with all kinds of disadvantage because it is not the right tool for the job, I use it to write notes down in for my character and I use it's built in headphones and audio pick up to make it double as a com link (basically a short wave radio). Essentially it is a note pad/ book/ short wave radio/ extremely simple computer tool that can only do the most basic of computer things. 

To me that's too many functions but that is just me. You had me up until it could be used to open doors and also as a comlink though. In the original movies I feel like they would use their comlink as a comlink and they would open doors with tools or with a droid. If there was absolutley nothing else to use I guess the data pad would be better than nothing but I would make the PC break open the panel and wire it to the door. I think the notes thing is fine but my rule of thumb is that if it looks like modern multi-functionality it's probably not a good idea if you want it to look like the idea George seemed to have of the technology as he saw it in 1980-ish. 

I totally agree about the story bypass widget issue. 

 

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4 hours ago, Archlyte said:

To me that's too many functions but that is just me. You had me up until it could be used to open doors and also as a comlink though. In the original movies I feel like they would use their comlink as a comlink and they would open doors with tools or with a droid. If there was absolutley nothing else to use I guess the data pad would be better than nothing but I would make the PC break open the panel and wire it to the door. I think the notes thing is fine but my rule of thumb is that if it looks like modern multi-functionality it's probably not a good idea if you want it to look like the idea George seemed to have of the technology as he saw it in 1980-ish. 

I totally agree about the story bypass widget issue. 

 

The opening door would be a non-locked door. Like basically just keying it open, or having the door scanner scan the ID you have on the door technically in most of these 80's things you wouldnt even need that the door would just open by itself so I guess technically it is not necessary. If you want to open a locked door it is 100% you have to open a panel, use the wires and at a crap ton of disadvantage, the pad is just helping because you have something that can be plugged in to act add energy somewhere or typical 60's and 80 techno babble help with wires. The comlink thing is only on the models that have the headphones and audio pick up available (which are specifically fancy models) and are really just big radios think this: And since that is a WW2 style radio thing and Star Wars is supposed to be like Sciency WW 2 this is how I treat data pads with transmitters/ receivers and headphones.

 

Edited by tunewalker

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Good link I liked the video :) I guess just don't see why the datapad needs to be all this. A holo projector or a comlink of whatever size seems like a way to show that there are extra devices for stuff so it feels properly anachronistic. It's not logical though, I admit it.

 

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1 hour ago, Archlyte said:

Good link I liked the video :) I guess just don't see why the datapad needs to be all this. A holo projector or a comlink of whatever size seems like a way to show that there are extra devices for stuff so it feels properly anachronistic. It's not logical though, I admit it.

 

They do not have to be, sometimes just convenient. Like when starting equipment I always recommend everyone gets a comlink 25 credits so they can stay in communication with one another,  but sometimes people have a little bit more left over after weapons and armor so they want to get something a little extra and do not feel like getting stim packs. At 100 credits and higher encumbrance I just let it fit the comlink idea but also let it work as basically a sci-fi notepad as well that they can use along side it, or they can use it to go to a library or some other place that they need to PHYSICALLY plug into that would readily and easily have what ever information they want to download (not something they can hack for, this needs to be information open to the public) and they can download ONE book worth of information onto the data pad and read it later. You know like renting a book from the library is how I explain it to them.... It does not need to be these things, but sometimes it is just nice to have that as an option for something that is worth 100 credits. Still only somewhat useful, and usually if they have one and can find a viable location to get information I may give them 2 boost dice to researching a topic because they can read it at the library or download it onto their pad and read it at home. So they can read even when the library is closed.

Edit: basically what ever the datapad is, it should be WORTH 100 credits in my opinion. Slicer gear is 500 credits worth of stuff for computers way more a handheld communicator is worth 25, while a long range or holo communicator is 200 or 250, An insider's guide is 25 credits, a cultural manual is 35 credits, these are single small books that I could see combining with a handheld comm for 100 credits. A Species Database though is worth 150 credits, and a specially designed Datapad (it would NOT have the comm stuff) that contains way more information than a typical datapad on every known species in the galaxy from biology to culture, this is what I would hard classify as what a typical datapad's limits are and what they CAN NOT do, you can not download an entire database onto a datapad..... you need something more specific for that. And trust me they have tried... (I am going to download all the information on this imperial computer into my data pad...... no, no you are not, you can download the map... you cannot download an entire database, I do not care how good your computer skill is and that you broke into it by pick pocketing the captains ID.)

Edit 2: I would say if any of my players wanted to have a data pad that did not have a built in comm I might allow them to download a larger amount of data. Not a fricken database still, but more than a single book.

Edited by tunewalker

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13 minutes ago, tunewalker said:

They do not have to be, sometimes just convenient. Like when starting equipment I always recommend everyone gets a comlink 25 credits so they can stay in communication with one another,  but sometimes people have a little bit more left over after weapons and armor so they want to get something a little extra and do not feel like getting stim packs. At 100 credits and higher encumbrance I just let it fit the comlink idea but also let it work as basically a sci-fi notepad as well that they can use along side it, or they can use it to go to a library or some other place that they need to PHYSICALLY plug into that would readily and easily have what ever information they want to download (not something they can hack for, this needs to be information open to the public) and they can download ONE book worth of information onto the data pad and read it later. You know like renting a book from the library is how I explain it to them.... It does not need to be these things, but sometimes it is just nice to have that as an option for something that is worth 100 credits. Still only somewhat useful, and usually if they have one and can find a viable location to get information I may give them 2 boost dice to researching a topic because they can read it at the library or download it onto their pad and read it at home. So they can read even when the library is closed.

I like the idea of it as a modifier of sorts that gives dice, or a Macgyver kind of implement lol. I guess I just got tired of the Datapad being the skeleton key for every situation because the player was thinking of it as a sci-fi situation where the technology is the subject of the story instead of science fantasy where it is simply there to facilitate the characters' story. But most of all if the way you do it feels old school to you then more power to you. 

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Something I wanted some input on: It seems to me like one of the aspects of OSSW is that if you want something you have to go somewhere to get it. This includes death star plans, artifacts, equipment, messages, etc. Does this seem accurate to you guys? 

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The ability to send video over wireless communications has existed in canon since at least the first Rogue Squadron book. Corran runs a trench first and his data is used to make a map for the rest of the squadron. The main question is how small it can get.

If you want really old school feel though, read the D6 books. It predates the Special Edition by a decade and was the origin of huge parts of the EU.

Edited by NanashiAnon

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21 hours ago, NanashiAnon said:

The ability to send video over wireless communications has existed in canon since at least the first Rogue Squadron book. Corran runs a trench first and his data is used to make a map for the rest of the squadron. The main question is how small it can get.

If you want really old school feel though, read the D6 books. It predates the Special Edition by a decade and was the origin of huge parts of the EU.

Well I wish that the EU (and Last Jedi) writers would think through stuff like that before they put it in their works. So if we can send video files and all that why didn't Leia just send the Death Star plans directly to Alliance Headquarters? Probably because it kills the story. These technological logical uses are something that I think have to be suspended in order to get the kind of stories that feel like OSSW. Gotta put the plans in the R2, got to go to the cantina to meet Han Solo, etc. 

This is the kind of thing where at times movies like Rogue One even mess it up because they transmit the plans from a big data tape looking thing to the ship in orbit then they put it on a small data card, so they essentially transmitted the files 😖 I think It's difficult for us to mnot take the obvious technological next step in portraying the things that happen in the setting, but the weird and wonderful stuff that George conveyed to the screen in those original movies had that quality. 

George was right to shoot for a world and culture that we don't understand but that we can still follow the story through. We don't understand how you can have hyperdrives but not use cell phones. It makes no sense that there are droids but not the internet. But the original movies had this lightning in a bottle formula that has been attempted ever since, sometimes with diligence and other times with no real consideration for unintended consequences or tone. 

Edited by Archlyte

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7 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Well I wish that the EU (and Last Jedi) writers would think through stuff like that before they put it in their works. So if we can send video files and all that why didn't Leia just send the Death Star plans directly to Alliance Headquarters? Probably because it kills the story.

Because - even without Rogue One - Vader's dialogue suggests that the initial transmission was traced? Which means that transmitting to the Alliance could be traced? And the Empire could then attack the Alliance while the plans were still being analyzed?

(Sorry...I forgot that if someone includes something you didn't like, they obviously "didn't think through stuff.")

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9 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Well I wish that the EU (and Last Jedi) writers would think through stuff like that before they put it in their works. So if we can send video files and all that why didn't Leia just send the Death Star plans directly to Alliance Headquarters? Probably because it kills the story. These technological logical uses are something that I think have to be suspended in order to get the kind of stories that feel like OSSW. Gotta put the plans in the R2, got to go to the cantina to meet Han Solo, etc. 

This is the kind of thing where at times movies like Rogue One even mess it up because they transmit the plans from a big data tape looking thing to the ship in orbit then they put it on a small data card, so they essentially transmitted the files 😖 I think It's difficult for us to mnot take the obvious technological next step in portraying the things that happen in the setting, but the weird and wonderful stuff that George conveyed to the screen in those original movies had that quality. 

George was right to shoot for a world and culture that we don't understand but that we can still follow the story through. We don't understand how you can have hyperdrives but not use cell phones. It makes no sense that there are droids but not the internet. But the original movies had this lightning in a bottle formula that has been attempted ever since, sometimes with diligence and other times with no real consideration for unintended consequences or tone. 

A Star Destroyer has 30 000 crew. I'm sure some of those are competent enough to simply brute force jam outgoing signals from the ship Leia is on. So it's not that the tech won't allow a transmission, it's that she can't. Try to find a logical solution for what you see. That way you might preserve your image of Lucas genius.

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3 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:

A Star Destroyer has 30 000 crew. I'm sure some of those are competent enough to simply brute force jam outgoing signals from the ship Leia is on. So it's not that the tech won't allow a transmission, it's that she can't. Try to find a logical solution for what you see. That way you might preserve your image of Lucas genius.

The thing is, in a game you have to be making these choices sometimes in real time. For me these are largely creative decisions rather than thinking the environment out down to the last bread crumb. It's a bit like mythology where you can't really make it jibe completely with reality. I think that's perfectly in keeping with the non-sci fi approach. 

The other thing that does is set up a precedent of argumentation as to why or why not something can happen and in the end the GM has the ability to override any argument by pulling stuff out of their **** to counter the argument. seems more efficient to me to just say it's like this, don't worry about it. 

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15 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Well I wish that the EU (and Last Jedi) writers would think through stuff like that before they put it in their works. So if we can send video files and all that why didn't Leia just send the Death Star plans directly to Alliance Headquarters? Probably because it kills the story. These technological logical uses are something that I think have to be suspended in order to get the kind of stories that feel like OSSW. Gotta put the plans in the R2, got to go to the cantina to meet Han Solo, etc. 

This is the kind of thing where at times movies like Rogue One even mess it up because they transmit the plans from a big data tape looking thing to the ship in orbit then they put it on a small data card, so they essentially transmitted the files 😖 I think It's difficult for us to mnot take the obvious technological next step in portraying the things that happen in the setting, but the weird and wonderful stuff that George conveyed to the screen in those original movies had that quality. 

George was right to shoot for a world and culture that we don't understand but that we can still follow the story through. We don't understand how you can have hyperdrives but not use cell phones. It makes no sense that there are droids but not the internet. But the original movies had this lightning in a bottle formula that has been attempted ever since, sometimes with diligence and other times with no real consideration for unintended consequences or tone. 

The X-Wing scene is all within the same general area of a single planet. Does nothing to imply it can be sent to other systems FTL.

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On 2/24/2019 at 7:13 AM, Nytwyng said:

Because - even without Rogue One - Vader's dialogue suggests that the initial transmission was traced? Which means that transmitting to the Alliance could be traced? And the Empire could then attack the Alliance while the plans were still being analyzed?

(Sorry...I forgot that if someone includes something you didn't like, they obviously "didn't think through stuff.")

To be fair in your assertion, Nytwyng, Vader never implied that there was a trace. He only said "several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies" which implies direct knowledge, not inferred knowledge from a trace or tracking of transmissions. When we see Rogue One, this statement is put into greater context, as we see that Vader was present during the events on Scarif and knew very well that the Tantive IV had the plans, but even in A New Hope, the implication is that Vader knew beyond doubt the plans would be present there. To make the leap that it infers tracking or digital tracing of transmissions is erroneous. 

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On 2/23/2019 at 11:50 PM, Archlyte said:

This is the kind of thing where at times movies like Rogue One even mess it up because they transmit the plans from a big data tape looking thing to the ship in orbit then they put it on a small data card, so they essentially transmitted the files 😖 I think It's difficult for us to mnot take the obvious technological next step in portraying the things that happen in the setting, but the weird and wonderful stuff that George conveyed to the screen in those original movies had that quality.

To call a spade a spade, Lucas used the technology of the time to specifically influence his vision on screen just like the writers of Rogue One and the new trilogy. This is proven by Obi-Wan using effectively a thumb drive to show Yoda the galactic map in the Jedi Temple scene where he was looking for Kamino, which was almost twenty years before the tape-decks and cassettes period of the OT. This "reversal of tech" was explained by GL as the effects of societal and technological stagnation and militarization, but it was actually because our understanding of technological capability was progressing and it inevitably influenced what we believed technology could accomplish and how that would look.

Moreover, you have to understand that the file on Scarif where the plans were being stored were designed to be legacy files. These inherently are large, durable mediums, while files independently are much simpler and smaller when designed to be disposable or transportable. Look at the current day music industry - or the movie industry itself; master copies are held on film, or in the case of digital shoots, massive numbers of discs and drives, in a very large format file to allow for the best in fidelity and the least in degradation. When they are prepared for transit to theatres or readied for distribution as a single, they are then compressed in file format and reduced in file size from the exorbitant starting size to a manageable and transferable medium. This is exactly what happened on Scarif. They didn't need the max fidelity version with every prior historical revision - only the final format with the weakness shown that Jyn's father had referenced, allowing the actual file being transferred to be significantly smaller in size than the one that was stored for legacy, possibly with multiple other files as well. 

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38 minutes ago, Kyla said:

To be fair in your assertion, Nytwyng, Vader never implied that there was a trace. He only said "several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies" which implies direct knowledge, not inferred knowledge from a trace or tracking of transmissions. When we see Rogue One, this statement is put into greater context, as we see that Vader was present during the events on Scarif and knew very well that the Tantive IV had the plans, but even in A New Hope, the implication is that Vader knew beyond doubt the plans would be present there. To make the leap that it infers tracking or digital tracing of transmissions is erroneous. 

Fair point.

We can also add in, though, as Darth Revenant did, the possibility (probability?) of jamming, not just to prevent the plans from being transmitted, but also to prevent any distress call from being sent.

We also should probably remember that Leia’s mission was twofold: not only get the plans to the Alliance, but to gather up Obi-Wan (which is why they were at Tatooine in the first place). With the ship captured, transmitting the plans only accomplishes one of the two missions. Sending Artoo with the plans to find Kenobi keeps both missions going.

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39 minutes ago, Kyla said:

To call a spade a spade, Lucas used the technology of the time to specifically influence his vision on screen just like the writers of Rogue One and the new trilogy. This is proven by Obi-Wan using effectively a thumb drive to show Yoda the galactic map in the Jedi Temple scene where he was looking for Kamino, which was almost twenty years before the tape-decks and cassettes period of the OT. This "reversal of tech" was explained by GL as the effects of societal and technological stagnation and militarization, but it was actually because our understanding of technological capability was progressing and it inevitably influenced what we believed technology could accomplish and how that would look.

Moreover, you have to understand that the file on Scarif where the plans were being stored were designed to be legacy files. These inherently are large, durable mediums, while files independently are much simpler and smaller when designed to be disposable or transportable. Look at the current day music industry - or the movie industry itself; master copies are held on film, or in the case of digital shoots, massive numbers of discs and drives, in a very large format file to allow for the best in fidelity and the least in degradation. When they are prepared for transit to theatres or readied for distribution as a single, they are then compressed in file format and reduced in file size from the exorbitant starting size to a manageable and transferable medium. This is exactly what happened on Scarif. They didn't need the max fidelity version with every prior historical revision - only the final format with the weakness shown that Jyn's father had referenced, allowing the actual file being transferred to be significantly smaller in size than the one that was stored for legacy, possibly with multiple other files as well. 

Also, to add on to what Kyla said:

Tape, while it may seem archaic and "retro-tech" these days, is actually the preferred medium for a large number of archival backups. It is cheap, compared to disc drives or flash memory, and if kept in an appropriate environment (say, an archive dedicated entirely to storing tape, *cough* Scarif *cough*) it lasts longer without degradation than more modern forms of storage.

Of course, if you were to want to actually USE such information, you'd want to transfer it to something more portable and with random access (tapes only allow sequential access, which makes it a pain to work with, but for archiving, who cares?), say a small flash drive (in card form) that could be handed off between operatives/hapless rebel troopers about to be diced by a lightsaber, or inserted into an R2 unit?

I actually thought it was clever how R1 rectified the "Missing data tapes" line in Ep 4 and the fact that Leia had the plans on a small card she uploaded to R2.

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