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dominosfleet

Family Time Games

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I couldn't attend the event Saturday in Indy, I'd called Wednesday to cancel my spot. I talked to the owner directly that day and he said he'd do a full refund but to call the next day to get it processed. It was honestly more generous than I'd expected so i just shrugged off him asking me to call the next day. I did and got one of the store people instead, she said she'd relay the message and he'd call me later that night but I never got a call. I called again friday, same story. On Saturday I called again and talked to the owner again, this time he said instead of a full refund he was just going to refund everyone 50% of the cost because only half the people that signed up showed up (lol due to roads/weather which is why his thing in that facebook message is so crazy to me)  and "that seemed fair to everyone". I said that was fine and thanked him but I was irked that his story changed and that I'd been blown off the 3 days before so i left a negative review on facebook and google.

Woke up this morning to that crazy message from him, so my question is, what are the forums thoughts? Lol I can be a pretty awful person but this guy has interacted with me directly like 3 times for maybe a grand total of 7 mins(attended last years regional here) so he had no way of knowing that lol

 

 5t7A1Et.png

Edited by dominosfleet

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55 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

what are the forums thoughts?

Not really surprised. 

The fact of the matter is, most places don't give refunds in general. Especially for event attendance. It's a good way to get screwed if you do. (A cusery look at the terms on his webpage suggests this is the case with him "All sales are final, returns are not accepted"). I can see where this individual spoke with you, made a deal for a full refund trying to be generous, then probably got a handful more requests when the bad weather hit and realized it would be too big a loss to fully refund everything, so he offed 50%. Which was really more than he had to do.

Here's the thing, if he offered you full, and you didn't press him for it, especially considering the circumstances, you've basically entered an agreement to accept 50%. If you didn't inform him that there would be consequences for a change in the deal, especially since he didn't have to do anything, then yeah, it's a pretty **** move.

Imagine running his business for a moment.

A bunch of people buy tickets to an event, which the policy of your company is "no returns". Money in the bank. You use that money to pay bills, invest in products ect ect.. Then one guy says he can't make it. No biggie, bills are paid and you can afford it, better to be cool with the guy then to potentially piss him off, so you give the guy a 100% back deal. You're busy the next couple of days and come back to find out a bunch of folks had to cancel because of the weather, but you still made some money from the event. You really don't wanna take bad press for the weather, and a little can go a long way with gamers, so you offer 50% to everyone. It cleans you out, but you figure most will be back anyways, now the guy you offered 100% calls back and you figure lumping him in with the rest makes sense. If you gave this one guy 100% and only 50% to the others, they could think it was unfair and leave a bunch of bad press, so you discuss altering the deal. The person doesn't press the 100% deal, and doesn't tell you he plans to leave reviews for the change, and you figure it's done. Only to find out he gave you bad press anyways. Even though technically you didn't have to give him ****. 


I don't know. As someone who runs a business any customer who discussed something with me, never let me know that they were displeased with the outcome then instead of taking it up with me to get it fixed tried to publicly ruin my reputation -ESPECIALLY if I was doing him a favor- would hella earn a black mark in my book.

Saying it's fine but leaving a bad review is a **** move. Be up front with businesses, if he'd have known you were that bothered, he'd probably have tried to make it right. Most of us (especially small businesses) do. 



 

Edited by Darth Sanguis

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9 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Not really surprised. 

The fact of the matter is, most places don't give refunds in general. Especially for event attendance. It's a good way to get screwed if you do. (A cusery look at the terms on his webpage suggests this is the case with him "All sales are final, returns are not accepted"). I can see where this individual spoke with you, made a deal for a full refund trying to be generous, then probably got a handful more requests when the bad weather hit and realized it would be too big a loss to fully refund everything, so he offed 50%. Which was really more than he had to do.

Here's the thing, if he offered you full, and you didn't press him for it, especially considering the circumstances, you've basically entered an agreement to accept 50%. If you didn't inform him that there would be consequences for a change in the deal, especially since he didn't have to do anything, then yeah, it's a pretty **** move.

Imagine running his business for a moment.

A bunch of people buy tickets to an event, which the policy of your company is "no returns". Money in the bank. You use that money to pay bills, invest in products ect ect.. Then one guy says he can't make it. No biggie, bills are paid and you can afford it, better to be cool with the guy then to potentially piss him off, so you give the guy a 100% back deal. You're busy the next couple of days and come back to find out a bunch of folks had to cancel because of the weather, but you still made some money from the event. You really don't wanna take bad press for the weather, and a little can go a long way with gamers, so you offer 50% to everyone. It cleans you out, but you figure most will be back anyways, now the guy you offered 100% calls back and you figure lumping him in with the rest makes sense. If you gave this one guy 100% and only 50% to the others, they could think it was unfair and leave a bunch of bad press, so you discuss altering the deal. The person doesn't press the 100% deal, and doesn't tell you he plans to leave reviews for the change, and you figure it's done. Only to find out he gave you bad press anyways. Even though technically you didn't have to give him ****. 


I don't know. As someone who runs a business, any customer who discussed something with me, never let me know that they were displeased with the outcome, then instead of taking it up with me to get it fixed tried to publicly ruin my reputation, ESPECIALLY if I was doing him a favor, they'd hella earn a black mark in my book.

Saying it's fine but leaving a bad review is a **** move. Be up front with businesses, if he'd have known you were that bothered, he'd probably have tried to make it right. Most of us (especially small businesses) do. 



 

Not really an issue with the money, my frustration was related to him not responding the 3 times. 

 

Side note, you really think a bad review is worth the business calling someone an awful person? Im struggling to see what i did in that situation that was unwarranted, is the business owner entitled to a good review for bad service? Not mad at you, just asking questions

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2 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

Not really an issue with the money, my frustration was related to him not responding the 3 times. 

 

Side note, you really think a bad review is worth the business calling someone an awful person? Im struggling to see what i did in that situation that was unwarranted, is the business owner entitled to a good review for bad service? Not mad at you, just asking questions

It's not the review that made him mad. I guarantee that. Bad reviews happen. It's the fact that you never let him know you were unhappy with what happened. He left that situation believing you were satisfied with the interaction, probably feeling like he did you the favor considering his policy on refunds, then got blindsided with a bad report. Likely, over something he'd have been willing to "make right". 


No one is entitled to anything. Especially in business. But when a customer is unhappy you certainly expect them to tell you. How could he have made it right if he didn't know there was a problem? It would be like seeing your kid do something rude, not saying a word, and out of the blue popping him in the gabber for it the next day. 

 

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Eh, I emailed this guy about this tournament some time ago as I was considering driving a fair distance to attend.   Got a rude response.  After I emailed back that he was rude,  got a longer response that it was his wife's fault as her English isn't that good and she comes off as "curt." 

I was not impressed with my interactions with this guy.  While I can see both sides here, after my interaction with this guy and his business, gotta say that I don't think I'd ever do business with them, that's for sure.  I didn't bother to go to his tournament and I personally wouldn't feel bad, dominosfleet, that you've been "banned" LOL.

 

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15 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

It's not the review that made him mad. I guarantee that. Bad reviews happen. It's the fact that you never let him know you were unhappy with what happened. He left that situation believing you were satisfied with the interaction, probably feeling like he did you the favor considering his policy on refunds, then got blindsided with a bad report. Likely, over something he'd have been willing to "make right". 


No one is entitled to anything. Especially in business. But when a customer is unhappy you certainly expect them to tell you. How could he have made it right if he didn't know there was a problem? It would be like seeing your kid do something rude, not saying a word, and out of the blue popping him in the gabber for it the next day. 

 

Oh ya, that's not me at all. If i have a problem with the company I will go out of my way to be courteous with the staff because the VAST majority of the time they have no control of the situation and I don't need to make their lives worse just because I don't agree with the business decisions made, I just won't ever go back to the place. Even knowing the guy was the owner I didn't want to get in an argument over 25 bucks, it's hardly any money and absolutely not worth the stress about it. I did want other people to know about the bad experience so that's where the review came from, seemed like it would have been a failure on my part not to let other people know ahead of time of the experience they might have. 

Edited by dominosfleet

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3 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

I don't need to make their lives worse just because I don't agree with the business decisions made

 

4 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

I did want other people to know about the bad experience

Odds are, they'd likely have preferred a discussion. 

Though to be fair, the owner could just be a ****. It does tend to happen. 

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I've been frequenting Family Time Games every time I'm in Indianapolis (two or three times per year usually) ever since Shane hosted the two-day tournament in the spring of Wave 2. It is by far the best tournament venue I've ever attended for any OP event of any game. He's super friendly and goes out of his way including providing deli food for lunch once the prize kit cost is covered - and still charging a pretty typical entry fee. He is the kind of store owner that others should aspire to be.

The thing about weather doesn't sound completely honest to me. There were people from all over the Midwest. The forecast wasn't for poor weather, and the weather that day was just fine (albeit some fog for anyone trying to drive home that night). In the end, I think  you're exaggerating what constitutes a "bad experience." It looks more like you came to a verbal agreement after changing your mind about attending and then regretted that you agreed to it. That made you leave a bad review even though he didn't have to give you any refund at all.  I'd be pissed off, too, if I were him. You're in the wrong here.

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I played in the Indy Regionals last year at Family Time Games and met the owner and his wife (English is not her first language, that is correct). The event was great (they brought us food for lunch at no extra cost to us and he sweetened the pot with some promos they had from other Armada events) and the owner was clearly into the game and supporting the players. His conversational style was direct, which I normally appreciate, and we had a good time chatting for a bit. I'm told he's ex-military. I'm not surprised. People I know who go there with any regularity love the place. I intend to return next year if they do another Regional. They've got 4.8 out of 5 stars from (as of now) 377 Google reviews for a reason, and one of those 5-star reviews is mine.

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I just found your review. That's weak sauce:

Quote

Bad experience with the store owner left me sour on this store. I wouldn't recommend.

That is a useless review, no explanation at all. It's like the episode of the Office where Andy talks about maybe becoming a food critic, "This food tastes bad." Or an art critic: "This art is bad."

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35 minutes ago, comatose said:

 In the end, I think  you're exaggerating what constitutes a "bad experience." It looks more like you came to a verbal agreement after changing your mind about attending and then regretted that you agreed to it. That made you leave a bad review even though he didn't have to give you any refund at all.  I'd be pissed off, too, if I were him. You're in the wrong here.

This is the one thing I have a problem with on your statement. I stated in my OP that I don't care about the money, I care about not being contacted after he said he would. I called him wednesday and he said he would take care of the situation thursday if i called back. I called thursday and was pushed off to Friday, and then when I called Friday I was pushed off to Saturday. That's the day he changed what he said he would do on wednesday from 100% to 50%. 

But again, I don't care about the %, he can (and will likely) keep the full amount because his business clearly needs it. I care that I had to contact this person several times and that he changed his mind on what he felt was fair which is what caused me to leave the review. If you'd like to check google you'll see my full review. 

It also bothers me quite a bit for a business to call someone an "Awful person" for holding them account able for poor customer service. I worked retail 10 years not following through with what you said you're going to do is poor customer service  

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Man, people have different experiences. I had a great experience when I went to regionals here last year. But you know what? The two people I came with (dominos being one of them) didn't. And I saw the events that marred their experiences. They happened, and if others had good experiences, that's great!

But I hardly think that invalidates a bad experience someone else had. Especially given that the store's owner didn't simply say "don't come back" or explain that he thought dominos handled it poorly. He called him "an awful person." I believe in the power of words. Dominos has never been anything but welcoming and considerate to me. It's only because of him that I discovered our local Armada community and came back to the game and fell in love with it. Neither he nor the owner like each other? Fine. But I didn't see dominos calling the guy "an awful person." I've been a geek my whole life, and insults like that never really just roll off my back. I think that's pretty cold and inconsiderate, even putting retail and business aside.

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47 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

shots fired
EquatorialGlitteringBergerpicard-size_re

I'm not gonna take @Ginkapo too personally, he's always struck me as the red hat equivalent of the UK. 

I respect @Snipafist's opinion, we've played before (at that regional actually, last year, I flew the sloane list. It was a good game and Snip took the win at 8/3 i think after clearing my ships). I played @geek19 the same day and kept saying you guys had a great podcast because I was sleep deprived(game 4, 20ish hours into the day) and you kept laughing and correcting me to blog, it was my favorite game of the day and a real honor to meet both of you guys. 

 

and @Darth Sanguis you know I've always respected your opinion, you're a contributor whose posts I always look forward to like crab or Armadajim's. 

I have no idea who @comatose is, probably fine people in real life. Glad you've had good experiences in Indy, I had a bad one (tech 2 but the previous was minor enough that I just shrugged it off though @player2402036 did semi bring it up while i was typing this out) and expressed it in review. I asked the forums their opinion to see if mine was unique or if others had had run ins with guy and the second person to respond said he too had had a bad experience. 

Yes the owner is prior service, I am too, that's not an excuse to be rude to your customer base. 

Thank you everyone for your replies. 
 

Edited by dominosfleet

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I suppose I don't see the purpose of posting this here?

It seems to just propagate bad feeling about all parties - sometimes dirty laundry is better left out of public view?

Regardless of who was wrong or right (and I have no way of knowing that from a single forum post) it just seems like this isn't super relevant. Maybe if the guy was actively defrauding people, but even then I'd talk to FFG OP or the like instead?

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I would offer a sincere apology to the owner and consider editing/deleting the review, as it can be surprising how effectively that can improve (or sometimes even reverse) a situation.  It sounds like he offered an excellent deal and was unable to deliver, so he gave people a good deal instead.  You misunderstood the norm for such situations and treated him poorly for it, which was (unintentionally) rather offensive, leading him to respond quite poorly in turn.  It's probably not too late to at least alleviate some of the ill will.  He may also recognize that his behavior was unprofessional, regardless of your actions.

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4 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

I couldn't attend the event Saturday in Indy, I'd called Wednesday to cancel my spot. I talked to the owner directly that day and he said he'd do a full refund but to call the next day to get it processed. It was honestly more generous than I'd expected so i just shrugged off him asking me to call the next day. I did and got one of the store people instead, she said she'd relay the message and he'd call me later that night but I never got a call. I called again friday, same story. On Saturday I called again and talked to the owner again, this time he said instead of a full refund he was just going to refund everyone 50% of the cost because only half the people that signed up showed up (lol due to roads/weather which is why his thing in that facebook message is so crazy to me)  and "that seemed fair to everyone". I said that was fine and thanked him but I was irked that his story changed and that I'd been blown off the 3 days before so i left a negative review on facebook and google.

Woke up this morning to that crazy message from him, so my question is, what are the forums thoughts? Lol I can be a pretty awful person but this guy has interacted with me directly like 3 times for maybe a grand total of 7 mins(attended last years regional here) so he had no way of knowing that lol

 

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Without seeing your negative reviews it’s hard to judge if he overreacted.

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I dunno, @dominosfleet keeps changing his story. In his post here, he said he called on Wednesday. In his Google review, he said he called a week before the event. Other details side by side are different, too. And going to multiple places to leave a bad review? That's petty. @The Jabbawookie has worthwhile advice.

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48 minutes ago, comatose said:

I dunno, @dominosfleet keeps changing his story. In his post here, he said he called on Wednesday. In his Google review, he said he called a week before the event. Other details side by side are different, too. And going to multiple places to leave a bad review? That's petty. @The Jabbawookie has worthwhile advice.

Go double check the google review, after you mentioned that i hadnt written enough i thought better of it and decided i should be more accurate and not exaggerate. Both should be updated, i appreciate you being critical though, it gets the best account. Its huge now though. Can you guys see the screen shot on it? Im on my phone and couldnt tell. 

 

1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I would offer a sincere apology to the owner and consider editing/deleting the review, as it can be surprising how effectively that can improve (or sometimes even reverse) a situation.  It sounds like he offered an excellent deal and was unable to deliver, so he gave people a good deal instead.  You misunderstood the norm for such situations and treated him poorly for it, which was (unintentionally) rather offensive, leading him to respond quite poorly in turn.  It's probably not too late to at least alleviate some of the ill will.  He may also recognize that his behavior was unprofessional, regardless of your actions.

Thats the thing jabbaw, i dont feel like i owe an apology and i have no intention of going to the shop again. @Fyeya asked why put it up here and its largely because when i woke up to that direct message i thought i was on crazy pills and wanted non echo chamber responses from others on their opinion. Look, im fine with people being mad and generally disliking me ( hi @Ginkapo) but this guy was so angry i left a bad review that he hostially responded from his business itself. That just blows my mind and so i was curious if others had had an issue and at least a couple seem to have. I get people defending him too, maybe hes a fine guy that lost his temper but others need to know. Scroll through a couple of the other reviews on google and youll see multiple accounts of him putting his hands on people. If youre ok with that, thats on you, but if hes this hostile to me leaving a bad review because he didnt call me back i can read those as bearing a bit of truth to them and that gives me a weird feeling in my stomach about this guy. 

Edited by dominosfleet

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