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Rise of the Separatists - Anybody know what's going on?

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Posted (edited)

Someone posted the new specializations through reddit just google star wars ffg and reddit.  I've pre-ordered my copy so I dont mind really.  I guess the only ones who have a copy at the moment are those who were at that convention.

Edited by Metalghost

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Would somebody be able to post spoilers for the B2 Super Battle Droid? I'm planning on running a game on Monday that would greatly benefit from having B2s present, and if possible I'd rather use the official stats instead of my homebrewed ones. 

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Went back on Friday and of course they are sold out of ROS.  Some things I found out.  Imperial assault is dead.  Don't even to bother to buy exclusive FFG stuff unless you have a VIP pass.  Turns out they sold them only to VIP passes.  I even asked that I have ROS on pre-order and when I talked to a member of FFG staff they admitted they got only a few in from the first run, so don't expect that book ship out for at least another six months at the earliest.  As star wars goes Legion, X-wing are what they have resources dedicated to, what's left over will be spent on Armada and SWRPG, followed by any new games in that order.

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6 minutes ago, Rogo727 said:

Went back on Friday and of course they are sold out of ROS.  Some things I found out.  Imperial assault is dead.  Don't even to bother to buy exclusive FFG stuff unless you have a VIP pass.  Turns out they sold them only to VIP passes.  I even asked that I have ROS on pre-order and when I talked to a member of FFG staff they admitted they got only a few in from the first run, so don't expect that book ship out for at least another six months at the earliest.  As star wars goes Legion, X-wing are what they have resources dedicated to, what's left over will be spent on Armada and SWRPG, followed by any new games in that order.

Well, the news about the RPG no longer being a primary focus isn't exactly new, as they've said that the RPG line was going to scale back production (it is after all a complete system with regards to the various career books) and the focus would be on era-centric supplements.  Bummer about Imperial Assault, as I've got a couple of friends that loved that game.

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7 minutes ago, Uninvitedhaggis said:

Y'know, taking all this in, I just wish we would get any amount of transparency so we can know when we'll get what we paid for or at least know about delays without having to become detectives.

You’ll find very few companies that will air such internal dirty laundry to the public.

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On 4/10/2019 at 12:17 PM, Khazadune said:

No one in their right mind would reprint the entire book for a bent cover, whoever invented this as the cause the rumour mill has grafted unto it bc of a lack of real information. As a librarian, I can tell you that a bent cover would require re-binding the printed pages with a newly printed cover. Any printer worth their salt could handle that in no time, que or not... and if the fault was theirs, then as a client I would be demanding they settle our account before moving on to other business. 

The real truth is we will likely never know what transpired or why bc the organization refuses to provide any information to its customers. That just poor customer service, and these repeated delays will not engender any confidence in their support for the line.

Given that their product has a highly sought after license, with an engaging and entertaining mechanic, you would think they would stand by it. Such a shame. I know all the groups I used to play in have moved on. 

Well I can tell you that is exactly what happened to Ghosts of Dathomir. Because I talked to someone at FFG at the previous Gamernation Con.

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1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Well I can tell you that is exactly what happened to Ghosts of Dathomir. Because I talked to someone at FFG at the previous Gamernation Con.

I highly doubt that they would reprint every page when they have a reusable chunk of material like the interior pages. Whoever told you whatever was not likely to get into the weeds with you about the specifics of binding the book, if they were aware themselves. But you are entitled to believe what you like, as am I. I know that no one in the collections development department of the entire library system would throw away 90% of the material for a bent cover. They would instead recycle that perfectly good material and bind it to a fresh cover. 

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4 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

I highly doubt that they would reprint every page when they have a reusable chunk of material like the interior pages. Whoever told you whatever was not likely to get into the weeds with you about the specifics of binding the book, if they were aware themselves. But you are entitled to believe what you like, as am I. I know that no one in the collections development department of the entire library system would throw away 90% of the material for a bent cover. They would instead recycle that perfectly good material and bind it to a fresh cover. 

That's a library, not a manufacturer, publisher, or retailer. They want perfect products

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26 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

I highly doubt that they would reprint every page when they have a reusable chunk of material like the interior pages. Whoever told you whatever was not likely to get into the weeds with you about the specifics of binding the book, if they were aware themselves. But you are entitled to believe what you like, as am I. I know that no one in the collections development department of the entire library system would throw away 90% of the material for a bent cover. They would instead recycle that perfectly good material and bind it to a fresh cover. 

Depends on what was wrong with them. Maybe they got infested with some insect that’s native/common to china and they didn’t want to gift these to their customers. Lots of things could ruin a print run. 

Personally, I’d rather have FFG be too picky, than not picky enough.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Khazadune said:

I highly doubt that they would reprint every page when they have a reusable chunk of material like the interior pages. Whoever told you whatever was not likely to get into the weeds with you about the specifics of binding the book, if they were aware themselves. But you are entitled to believe what you like, as am I. I know that no one in the collections development department of the entire library system would throw away 90% of the material for a bent cover. They would instead recycle that perfectly good material and bind it to a fresh cover. 

You dont know how book binding works. You cant replace the cover at a reasonable price for the entire print run. I have a fair bit of knowledge on book printing. it is reasonable for a library to replace the cover on 1 book. It is not reasonable or possible to make sellable books in that manner.

Edited by Daeglan

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1 hour ago, HappyDaze said:

If only that applied to their proofing and editing too...

The Dirty secret is no book ever made is error free. Not possible. even less possible with time and personel restrictions. Like not having a dedicated all they do is edit person. pretty sure everyone there wears multiple hats.

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26 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

You dont know how book binding works. You cant replace the cover at a reasonable price for the entire print run. I have a fair bit of knowledge on book printing. it is reasonable for a library to replace the cover on 1 book. It is not reasonable or possible to make sellable books in that manner.

Sure, it was only part of my Masters education, but what do I know. 

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43 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

The Dirty secret is no book ever made is error free. Not possible. even less possible with time and personel restrictions. Like not having a dedicated all they do is edit person. pretty sure everyone there wears multiple hats.

I know for a fact that this is the company that ignored corrections sent to them during playtest. Seeing the same errors you pointed out early in playtest appear again in the finished product is really annoying to me.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Khazadune said:

Sure, it was only part of my Masters education, but what do I know. 

Apparently not how super expensive it would be to do to a whole print run that would be unsalable. Also they would be legally required to sell them as refurbished at a mark down. Where as the Printers insurance will pay for a new print run given the print run was bad.

So much as with computers you often could de-solder the bad component manually and repair it. it is often cheaper to just buy a whole new computer. 

Edited by Daeglan

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1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Apparently not how super expensive it would be to do to a whole print run that would be unsalable. Also they would be legally required to sell them as refurbished at a mark down. Where as the Printers insurance will pay for a new print run given the print run was bad.

So much as with computers you often could de-solder the bad component manually and repair it. it is often cheaper to just buy a whole new computer. 

You know how that book is bound? The same way regardless where the pages came from. Cut the flex adhesive, take out the stack, place it in the new cover and attach new flex adhesive. As long as you cut the flex near the base you will have zero way to identify any change and can be done to an entire print run faster and cheaper than any reprint that will require the same final steps. As to quality? You've never noticed a library book has been repaired, and there's a reason for that. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

You know how that book is bound? The same way regardless where the pages came from. Cut the flex adhesive, take out the stack, place it in the new cover and attach new flex adhesive. As long as you cut the flex near the base you will have zero way to identify any change and can be done to an entire print run faster and cheaper than any reprint that will require the same final steps. As to quality? You've never noticed a library book has been repaired, and there's a reason for that. 

Yeah how long does that take? How long will it take to do that to 10,000 copies? How much manual labor will it involve? A problem that is easy to solve on a single book becomes cost prohibitively expensive when you need to do it to 10,000 copies. Also the books are not glue bound. they are rope bound with the signature glued to the cardboard of the hardcover. You can't cut that glue. These are not perfect bound or glue bound. You can cut off the fist page of the signature because the other half of the signature will fall out.  Your solution is more time consuming and does not take the volume of work involved. Sure you can fix 1 book. But there is not a machine to fix 10,000 copies. it is FASTER to reprint using the printing a binding machines than it is to manually repair 10,000 copies. So yes I know how the books are made and no your solution wont work because it not glue bound. It is stitch bound with the front and back signatures glued to the hardback. You aren't cutting flex adhesive.

 

Edited by Daeglan

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8 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Yeah how long does that take? How long will it take to do that to 10,000 copies? How much manual labor will it involve? A problem that is easy to solve on a single book becomes cost prohibitively expensive when you need to do it to 10,000 copies. Also the books are not glue bound. they are rope bound with the signature glued to the cardboard of the hardcover. You can't cut that glue. These are not perfect bound or glue bound. You can cut off the fist page of the signature because the other half of the signature will fall out.  Your solution is more time consuming and does not take the volume of work involved. Sure you can fix 1 book. But there is not a machine to fix 10,000 copies. it is FASTER to reprint using the printing a binding machines than it is to manually repair 10,000 copies. So yes I know how the books are made and no your solution wont work because it not glue bound. It is stitch bound with the front and back signatures glued to the hardback. You aren't cutting flex adhesive.

 

First, it's not going to be 10,000 books in this run, probably 5,000 if we are being more realistic, and the presence of books without issue in Europe means that this would have isolated to a small subset of the larger print run.

Now a larger problem could exist where they had already arrived state side and the cost to return the books is prohibitive and time consuming, which is more believable, but as we don't have any clear communication from FFG that and the idea of the bent cover are just guesses. 

Also, yeah, I should have looked at the binding on one of my books before suggesting they were flex adhesive (due me for assuming) but rope bound books can still be mostly salvaged, and saving 80% of the print process is still worth it. 

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