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Han Solo (rebel falcon) vs Midnight - to reroll or not to reroll

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As in  https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/alps9j/han_vs_midnight_rules_question/ discussed recently:

Does Midnight prevent Han's reroll (which isn't a reroll)?!

As I'll be facing this on Saturday - please...!!

Han's pilot ability:
After you roll dice, if you are at range 0-1 of an obstacle, you may reroll all of your dice. This does not count as rerolling for the purpose of other effects.
Midnight:
While you defend or perform an attack, if you have a lock on the enemy ship, that ship’s dice cannot be modified.

 

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I'm under the impression that a roll or reroll, (even a reroll that doesn't count as a reroll for the purpose of other effects) is still a modification. Since Midnight specifically turns off modifications, Han can call his reroll whatever he wants for the purposes of game effects. It's still a modification though.

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6 minutes ago, Juunon said:

I'm under the impression that a roll or reroll, (even a reroll that doesn't count as a reroll for the purpose of other effects) is still a modification. Since Midnight specifically turns off modifications, Han can call his reroll whatever he wants for the purposes of game effects. It's still a modification though.

Agreed.  It'll still be dice modification, which Midnight shuts down.

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4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Agreed.  It'll still be dice modification, which Midnight shuts down.

Why would you consider Han's ability a modification?

 

Per the RR, a modification is one of the following: Add, Change, Reroll, Spend.

Han's ability says "This does not count as rerolling for the purpose of other effects.

Midnight's ability is an "other effect" where "While you defend or perform an attack, if you have a lock on the enemy ship, that ship’s dice cannot be modified."

 

Are you considering Han's ability to be an add, change, or a spend? If it isn't one of those, I don't think it can be counted as a modification for the purposes of Midnight's ability.

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doesn't everyone just love han solo? he's the worst. the movie was decent, but his character and his card texts? disgusting. i actually like him more in scum, just like i like him better in his own film than when he's forcing himself onto leia in the empire strikes back.

well, his rebel pilot ability is definitely a modification, since considering something a modification should not be an effect. it's a reroll that doesn't count as a reroll. still a reroll, though, so still a modification. a modification that doesn't count as a reroll.

midnight doesn't mention rerolls. he mentions modifications, so since you're modifying the dice by rerolling them, midnight stops it.

please note the golden rules on page two of the RR.

"If a card ability uses the word “cannot,” that effect is absolute and cannot be overridden by other effects."

midnights effect is, in other words, absolute. it's worth mentioning i really get where you're coming from with your line of reasoning. it makes perfect sense.

how ever, rerolling dice is a type of modification, even when it happens outside of the modify dice steps of performing attacks or if the ability that lets you perform the reroll instructs you not to count the reroll as a reroll for the purpose of other effects. it's still a type of modification. if you can't modify, you can't reroll. just like blinded pilot would stop han from rerolling. whether a reroll has been perfomed is irrelevant to midnight and blinded pilot. as long as it's a modificaiton, it's forbidden.

i'd love to take the argument for why it's not a modification, since it's a reroll that doesn't count as a reroll. not hoping for much, since it's still a reroll, but still... one can always dream... ^_^

Edited by meffo

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1 hour ago, KiAdiMoody said:

Why would you consider Han's ability a modification?

 

Per the RR, a modification is one of the following: Add, Change, Reroll, Spend.

Han's ability says "This does not count as rerolling for the purpose of other effects.

Midnight's ability is an "other effect" where "While you defend or perform an attack, if you have a lock on the enemy ship, that ship’s dice cannot be modified."

 

Are you considering Han's ability to be an add, change, or a spend? If it isn't one of those, I don't think it can be counted as a modification for the purposes of Midnight's ability.

Why?  Justice.

Look.  Han is a mess.  He's got an awkward zombie of an ability, both alive and dead, both a reroll and not a reroll.  It might even be worse than stuff like Dash/Outrider where you both ignore and don't ignore obstacles.  Just seems like an odd description of reality for Han to pick up, toss the dice, have them different, oh, but they haven't been modified.  I know there's technical language here,

But Midnight is pretty clear.  No modification.  The locked target can't do it.  Midnight can't do it himself.  Some third ship can't do it.  No one--the dice are untouched.

Take it away, Jalen Rose:

If I'm making a choice between a clear ability, and an awkward zombie, I'm probably choosing the clear ability.  Other folks might make other choices about their rules preferences.  But that's all any of us is doing here, we're making choices.

Also, because spite.  Because FFG did a horrible ***king job writing the ability, and I don't want to reward that by giving it precedence over a far better written ability, particularly when it's so much more clearly written than the 1e version of the same ability.

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