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Qualitypunk

Always with the negative waves, Moriarty

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11 hours ago, ThatRobHuman said:

So, there is a very real chance that my response to this is going to come across as pedantic - I assure you it's not intended to be, because I agree with you in principle, but only up until a point - respectfully. FFG has been doing a little - but I do not think that this constitutes any kind of real community engagement campaign or plan.

- Keyword search on twitter's advanced search for @FFGames containing the word "armada" shows 2 tweets regarding the SSD from august of 2018, a tweet showing off a piece of art for Phoenix Home. preceded by 2 from May of 2016. and then 1 from March of 2016 - https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=armada from%3Affgames&src=typd&lang=en

- I tend to work with the idea that a tournament prize or announcements are not on the same level as other topics in news posts (I'm happy to discuss this qualifier if you feel like it is an unfair decision on my part, but for now, let's proceed). Taking a look at the last two years of news on their site: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/tag/star-wars-armada/?page=3 - and filtering out Tournament announcements, prize spoilers, etc - we have this:

DD9r7Ax.jpg

 

I don't feel like a one-off article in a print medium that hardly anyone has a subscription to does not constitute a change in community engagement policy

Are they doing stuff? Yes

Is there any kind of change in their engagement? Early last year was cool - but it's been a year since then....

 

 

I might be nitpicking here but technically that article was in December's GTM issue.  I mean it first hit the internet in Nov, but it was scheduled for December's release.  And if we get an Article in Feb then your chart will look pretty normal. 

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34 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

I might be nitpicking here but technically that article was in December's GTM issue.  I mean it first hit the internet in Nov, but it was scheduled for December's release.  And if we get an Article in Feb then your chart will look pretty normal. 

Maybe not thaaaat normal.. if you consider the time between releases... there are some missing time stamps in there for wave 3-5 releases as well. So really, the top quarter of that chart looks mighty empty.

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I could not find the articles for waves 3, 4, and 5 release in the search index on FFG's site that I was using as reference.

Is it nitpicking? perhaps, but I find myself, even if it is "normal" - I still think that more Community  Goodies from FFG would be a good idea. Status Quo is not necessarily the same as Good.

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I have a somewhat tangential question: why is Chess routinely wheeled out as a standard for comparison? I appreciate there is usually a measure of irony involved (or so I'd hope!), but I really don't see Chess and Armada as interchangeable experiences.

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2 hours ago, Dobbs Mottley said:

I have a somewhat tangential question: why is Chess routinely wheeled out as a standard for comparison? I appreciate there is usually a measure of irony involved (or so I'd hope!), but I really don't see Chess and Armada as interchangeable experiences.

Chess is the standard/default tabletop, miniatures, strategy game. It's kind of seen as the original, with everything else being an improvement on it.

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I will say, now that I have seen Solo... I think the boycott of it killed Star Wars. It wasn't the best Star Wars movie, but it wasn't a god awful movie (I've seen, God Awful Movies). I think it suffered from a few things during rewrites/shoots. I don't know. I just watched it on netflix and I didnt hate it. Infact, I think that palace ship would be a fun thing for Mel to print.

And I, for one (and I would like to not start the arguement of the new movies) did rather enjoy TFA and TLJ. But I feel the, utter hatred for anything outside of 4-6 by some fans has severely hurt Star Wars. I imagine the lukewarm reception at the hyperspace report didnt help at all. Which, is fair; they didn't help their own case. And they arnt helping it now.

But, as an example of OT Cultists, as I brought up in a different thread; we have a local guy who refuses to play anything that has content outside of 4-6. Everything else is Star Wars Heresy to him. And its players/fans like that, that are hurting the franchise and game. You can not enjoy something, or not play with the mini's because you dont like them. But when you quit a game because Clone Wars/Rebels content exists inside the game... you've got problems you need to talk to someone about.

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3 hours ago, Dobbs Mottley said:

I have a somewhat tangential question: why is Chess routinely wheeled out as a standard for comparison? I appreciate there is usually a measure of irony involved (or so I'd hope!), but I really don't see Chess and Armada as interchangeable experiences.

I like to ask how many games of chess are being played at your local game store?

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3 hours ago, jbc98k said:

I like to ask how many games of chess are being played at your local game store?

I think the Magic players scared them off, and honestly Hnefatafl is a much better game due to the asymmetrical nature.

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12 hours ago, Grumbleduke said:

Chess is the standard/default tabletop, miniatures, strategy game. It's kind of seen as the original, with everything else being an improvement on it.

I suppose don't really see Chess as a "miniatures" game; certainly not in the same way as Armada or X-wing or 40k. Yes, it is a two-person strategy game that originated as an abstraction of warfare, but I feel there are enough differences (and differences in the expectations of players) to make me question the comparison.

For one thing, Chess isn't a collectable miniatures game. There is no expectation of fresh pieces being released at semi-regular intervals, or the meta changing as a result.

11 hours ago, jbc98k said:

I like to ask how many games of chess are being played at your local game store?

None, as sadly my local game store closed last year. =(

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9 minutes ago, Dobbs Mottley said:

For one thing, Chess isn't a collectable miniatures game. There is no expectation of fresh pieces being released at semi-regular intervals, or the meta changing as a result.

Tell that to the Caravel 😁

 

Slthough, “regular” intervals is an argument 😁😁

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Chess is boring? How can a Strategy Gamer say that without being ashamed. Chess is the most successful Strategy Game ever. It has nowadays a community of competetive gamers in USA of 7.000. Casual games you can only guess. In Europe it's 170.000 competetiv chess players organized. They don't need your local gaming store to meet! No complaints on the internet about missing support, rules, and chess 2.0. Take a look at FIDE (International Chess Organisation). You will be surprised!

There are more books written about playing chess, than you will be able to read in your life. There are more chess games written down than Armada games have ever been played at all. I played chess my self for several years. It taught me lessons about timing, area denial, patience, planing I can build on every single game of Armada or Legion. 

Ignorance is no merit!

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On 2/1/2019 at 11:36 PM, ThatRobHuman said:

I could not find the articles for waves 3, 4, and 5 release in the search index on FFG's site that I was using as reference.

Is it nitpicking? perhaps, but I find myself, even if it is "normal" - I still think that more Community  Goodies from FFG would be a good idea. Status Quo is not necessarily the same as Good.

I find it annoying that the wave 5 announcement article disappeared as well.

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7 hours ago, Triangular said:

Chess is boring? How can a Strategy Gamer say that without being ashamed. Chess is the most successful Strategy Game ever.

You don't have to like something because it happens to be popular!

It's really a matter of taste...I enjoy the narrative element of games like Armada as much if not more than the pure strategy side. I recognise that for others, the enjoyment comes from the challenge of understanding the mechanical side of the game, but for me- and I'm guessing some others too- that's just a little too dry.

So while you can play Armada like Chess- i.e. as a contest of skill between two players- I'm not convinced you can play Chess the way some people want to play Armada: as an excuse to revert into an overgrown kid and push around scale miniatures of little pieces of your childhood!

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On 2/1/2019 at 7:24 AM, ISD Avenger said:

I don’t think anyone is complaining about ‘fast enough for my liking’ more ‘virtually no releases/real communication in a year’. There’s a big difference.

Lets be real here, announcing the biggest model they have ever produced then not hyping it to the rafters is a questionable business decision at the very least. To say nothing of a more general release for both factions.

Just curious, what if they were waiting till worlds to release the SSD? This is all hypothetical, mind you, but I could see FFG not wanting to make that drastic of a change to the meta right before worlds. I can imagine a lot of folks being up in arms over that, especially if they don't get their pre order in time.

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4 hours ago, somerandomn00b said:

Just curious, what if they were waiting till worlds to release the SSD? This is all hypothetical, mind you, but I could see FFG not wanting to make that drastic of a change to the meta right before worlds. I can imagine a lot of folks being up in arms over that, especially if they don't get their pre order in time.

They're shown a History of drastically shaking metas *immediately* before Worlds, both in Armada and X-Wing...  

 

Both Systems saw major FAQ's drop very close beforehand, and...  Yes, you can imagine, "up in arms" is a good word for some players.

At least in regards to Release, there's a minimum 11 day cooling off period between "Official Release in North America", and when it is actually Legal for Worlds.

This is specifically so people with Pre-Orders are more likely to receive them even despite shipping issues, and to help people acclimatise.

 

So really, Thursday the 14th of March is the last release day where it would be Legal for Worlds.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Dobbs Mottley said:

You don't have to like something because it happens to be popular!

It's really a matter of taste...I enjoy the narrative element of games like Armada as much if not more than the pure strategy side. I recognise that for others, the enjoyment comes from the challenge of understanding the mechanical side of the game, but for me- and I'm guessing some others too- that's just a little too dry.

So while you can play Armada like Chess- i.e. as a contest of skill between two players- I'm not convinced you can play Chess the way some people want to play Armada: as an excuse to revert into an overgrown kid and push around scale miniatures of little pieces of your childhood!

I never said that everybody has to enjoy or to like chess. My point is, that as Strategy Gamer you should respect another game with a huge community, a vast amount of literature and some thousand years of history. It's totally okay to like Armada more than chess. But if something feels boring for you, it's not boring for all!

STR40.jpg

And there is a possibility to play chess and to make pew-pew sounds at the same time. 🙂

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On 2/2/2019 at 8:04 AM, Ling27 said:

I will say, now that I have seen Solo... I think the boycott of it killed Star Wars. It wasn't the best Star Wars movie, but it wasn't a god awful movie (I've seen, God Awful Movies). I think it suffered from a few things during rewrites/shoots. I don't know. I just watched it on netflix and I didnt hate it. Infact, I think that palace ship would be a fun thing for Mel to print.

 

The boycott alone didn't kill it. It's not large enough and if you think it is then Star Wars is in more dire situation than we think and LFL is definitely not marketing correctly. 

 

No. It was a combination of things. Mostly bad marketing. Waited forever for a trailer, put it up against other movies it didn't have a chance against. Then you let writers run their mouths about stuff like Lando being pan. Not bi or gay. No that wasn't good enough. Lando had to be pan, and he likes to screw (or so it was implied) a droid that looks barely better than a toaster. Yeah, right there you lost families. It doesn't matter that there was nothing explicit in the movie, just the implication was enough.

And then the fans that weren't boycotting all of a sudden didn't want to see it because the whole concept of pando Lando screwing his toaster sounded silly. 

 

Also, I showed my non Star Wars the scene of Chewie and Han showering....they just busted up laughing and wondering about the self awareness of the writers. It's comical. It looks like a parody. 

 

You can hear "bow chica wow wow" in the background in your head. 

 

All of that mixed with the boycott was a perfect crap storm.

 

As for the the OT guy who refuses to play anything outside the OT, that's always existed though even when the old Legends continuity was at its highest in popularity. After all, most of the stuff in Armada from Rebels like the Interdictor and Quasar came originally from Legends. The same with the Assault cruiser MK II. If he doesn't like them now he probably didn't like that stuff back then. 

 

OT "cultists" as you put it (a somewhat biased term but let's run with it) have existed since the heyday of Legends. They were never large enough to affect Star Wars market wise. Now however ,Star Wars is splitting into smaller and smaller sub groups. You have the old OT people, you have Legends people, you have canon people. Legends and OT cultist people were formerly enemies but now they have common cause because they both hate Disney and won't buy. 

The split in the fan base has reached a point now where OT cultists actually matter. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by RG1701

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3 minutes ago, RG1701 said:

The boycott alone didn't kill it.

I think the "boycott" had very little to do with it. 

For every person I've heard spout some trash about how "sjws are ruining star wars" I've heard easily triple as many say something along the lines of "Solo was good, even if I really didn't care that much". There was no market for Solo. (A finite market, some people were hella hyped). Even I, who loved TLJ and loves the direction of the series as a whole didn't see it in theaters. 

It just wasn't worth cramming myself into a movie theater with 2 dozen more people when I could wait for the bluray.


Most of my star wars oriented friends were exactly the same. 

 

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43 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I think the "boycott" had very little to do with it. 

For every person I've heard spout some trash about how "sjws are ruining star wars" I've heard easily triple as many say something along the lines of "Solo was good, even if I really didn't care that much". There was no market for Solo. (A finite market, some people were hella hyped). Even I, who loved TLJ and loves the direction of the series as a whole didn't see it in theaters. 

It just wasn't worth cramming myself into a movie theater with 2 dozen more people when I could wait for the bluray.


Most of my star wars oriented friends were exactly the same. 

 

I don't think we have locked a thread on movies this week, so lets get this rolling.

Star Wars cinema for me has always been about the "WOW" moments.  Some are CGI related, others are content related.  Rogue One did a very good job of making both CGI and emotional moments.  Star Wars has always felt like we are watching the highlight reel (action movie) of a much bigger world (space opera).

Solo really doesn't get there on either count.  It wasn't quite a heist/twist movie a la Oceans, it wasn't an action film a la Fast&Furious, wasn't a space opera.  So even though I was entertained by the movie, I left it not knowing exactly what I watched.  Compared to the Legends Solo history it just felt like they simultaneously provided too much detail on certain events, and yet fast forwarded over huge sections of time, leaving no mystery or fodder for the imagination.  For the "rogues" of Star Wars, that was always half the fun, there was always another story behind the story, some blank space to be filled.

 

At some point writers/directors/producers/whatever people in charge have to make a decision.  The divide between blockbusters and critically praised movies is pretty clear nowdays.  Trying to do both tends to please nobody.

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Just now, AdmiralYor said:

I don't think we have locked a thread on movies this week, so lets get this rolling.

I was expecting a much more provocative post.  lol

1 minute ago, AdmiralYor said:

Compared to the Legends Solo history it just felt like they simultaneously provided too much detail on certain events, and yet fast forwarded over huge sections of time, leaving no mystery or fodder for the imagination.  For the "rogues" of Star Wars, that was always half the fun, there was always another story behind the story, some blank space to be filled.


I could not agree more. 

I was so uninterested in seeing Solo because it told the story of Han before we met him in EP4. I always liked that he had an unknown but scandalous past. The whole idea of filling in the blanks for Han just seems bad.
 

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