Diana Stanley - cancel/ignore

[Burgie1996 9]

What are the rules on her card effect?

If the card just contains the word cancel or ignore it counts. Is there an official list anywhere of what cards are legal for this effect?

[Soakman 987]

No, but you can use the arkham db website to search the text of a card for a given word and search cancel or ingnore and sort through these.  You can even limit them to Guardian and Mystic cards.

 

https://arkhamdb.com/find?q=f%3Aguardian|mystic|neutral+x%3Acancel&decks=player

And

https://arkhamdb.com/find?q=f%3Aguardian|mystic|neutral+x%3Aignore&sort=name&view=list&decks=player&spoilers=hide

Edited January 31, 2019 by Soakman

[Assussanni 528]

From what I’ve seen, there still seems to be debate over exactly how certain ignore/cancel effects work for Diana. For example, does Defiance count if the symbol you name isn’t drawn? Does Marksmanship (or .45 Automatic lvl 2) work if the enemy doesn’t have the Retaliate or Aloof keywords?

As @Soakman says, you can use arkhamdb to view cards that should work in some capacity, even if exactly when some of them work isn’t totally clear at the moment (I’ve got as far as “x:cancel|ignore f:guardian|mystic|neutral” for my search).

Edited January 31, 2019 by Assussanni

[Soakman 987]

The effect is a reaction trigger so I intend to play it that the card in question does not trigger the reaction unless a specific trigger was successfully ignored or canceled.

So in your examples, no, they would not go under Diana. I'm not saying this is official, but that's how I would expect it to work and intend to houserule it for the time being.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Soakman

[Assussanni 528]

That is also how I would play it at the moment.

[FireBones 2]

The big question for me is whether chaos tokens (themselves) and attacks (themselves) count as "effects."

I'm currently assuming that canceling a chaos token does not count (so Counterspell(2) does not trigger), but canceling an attack does. Attacks are actions either triggered by text on a card or by the frameworks in the rules. But tokens are pieces of cardboard.

What does count is something that cancels an effect of a chaos token (like defiance(2), but only if such a token were drawn).

I'm tentatively thinking a case could be made for something like Pnakotic Manuscripts (5) or Force of Will (3) which cancel the game effect of _drawing_ a chaos token. (So the action of revealing a token counts, but the canceling of the token itself does not). Of course the above two are academic as Diana cannot play them.

So the cards that count for me are limited to:

Dodge

Hypontic Gaze

Defiance

Defiance (2)

Dark Insight

Ward of Protection

Deny Existence

Eldritch Inspiration

Delay the Inevitable

 

I do not think that Time Warp or Mind Wipe count.

[Soakman 987]

I see the line of logic, but I would err on the side of simplifying things and rule that a card that uses the cancel or ignore words can be affected by her ability. Whether a token itself is a game effect, I don't think would matter for the sake of simplicity. 

The key being that it has to affect the gamestate in some way to actually cancel or ignore something.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Soakman

[gazzagames 24]

20 minutes ago, FireBones said:

 

What does count is something that cancels an effect of a chaos token (like defiance(2), but only if such a token were drawn).

 

so by that token (🤨 🤨) does something like dark prophesy not count as it doesn't cancel or ignore the drawing of a token, but causes you to draw 5 tokens instead???

[Soakman 987]

2 hours ago, gazzagames said:

so by that token (🤨 🤨) does something like dark prophesy not count as it doesn't cancel or ignore the drawing of a token, but causes you to draw 5 tokens instead???

I would say it does count as you are explicitly 'ignoring' 4 tokens that if not ignored would cause an effect to the game state (ie resolving each of them together in addition to the token you chose).

FireBones may disagree with the above, but it is also clear to me (just as he/she listed) that Time Warp and Mind Wipe would not count because they do not specifically use the terms 'ignore' or 'cancel' which is key to not over-muddling the ability's triggering requirements.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Soakman

[gazzagames 24]

14 minutes ago, Soakman said:

I would say it does count as you are explicitly 'ignoring' 4 tokens that if not ignored would cause an effect to the game state (ie resolving each of them together in addition to the token you chose).

FireBones may disagree, but it is also clear to me that Time Warp and Mind Wipe would not count because they do not specifically use the terms 'ignore' or 'cancel' which is key to not over-muddling the ability's triggering requirements.

Yeah I guess with time warp it is as if it never happened, rather than being cancel so that makes sense to me....

[Khudzlin 734]

Chaos token effects are scenario card effects: they're written on the scenario reference card. The cultist token in Lost in Time and Space moves you and triggers the agenda's forced effect.

[Orcdruid 500]

40 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Chaos token effects are scenario card effects: they're written on the scenario reference card. The cultist token in Lost in Time and Space moves you and triggers the agenda's forced effect.

This is true so Defiance(2) would work with Diana but Counterspell would not. Because Counterspell cancels the draw of the token outright(as per the FAQ) while Defiance cancels only the effects.

[DarkFate 70]

But wouldn't drawing the token itself be considered a game effect?

[zooeyglass 327]

1 hour ago, DarkFate said:

But wouldn't drawing the token itself be considered a game effect?

it would. It works. Cards with 'cancel' or 'ignore' on them work, friends. (It's like Carolyn with 'heals horror'. If it heals horror, she can take it.)

[Jobu 720]

15 hours ago, Soakman said:

I would say it does count as you are explicitly 'ignoring' 4 tokens that if not ignored would cause an effect to the game state (ie resolving each of them together in addition to the token you chose).

FireBones may disagree with the above, but it is also clear to me (just as he/she listed) that Time Warp and Mind Wipe would not count because they do not specifically use the terms 'ignore' or 'cancel' which is key to not over-muddling the ability's triggering requirements.

At this point, I am in string strong agreement with Soakman's interpretation.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Jobu

[rsdockery 537]

5 hours ago, zooeyglass said:

it would. It works. Cards with 'cancel' or 'ignore' on them work, friends. (It's like Carolyn with 'heals horror'. If it heals horror, she can take it.)

Yes, as this is a card game, literally everything in its framework is a card or game effect. They're just future-proofing in case later cards have effects outside the game, like "ignore the law of gravity" or "cancel the United States Presidential Election."

[zooeyglass 327]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:53 PM, rsdockery said:

Yes, as this is a card game, literally everything in its framework is a card or game effect. They're just future-proofing in case later cards have effects outside the game, like "ignore the law of gravity" or "cancel the United States Presidential Election."

hooo boy looking forward to that last one...

[Faranim 63]

So, is there an official answer for a card like Defiance?

 

if you commit Defiance and declare Skull, but draw something else (so Defiance isn’t actually ignoring anything), can Defiance still go under Diana?  Or only if you correctly guess the token?

[DarkFate 70]

You can only activate Diana's ability after you actually cancelled/ignored something so i don't think defiance will placed under Diana on a failed guess.

[Assussanni 528]

13 hours ago, Faranim said:

So, is there an official answer for a card like Defiance?

To the best of my knowledge there has not been an official answer from Matt/FFG on this, at least I haven’t seen one anywhere if there is.

[FireBones 2]

On 2/5/2019 at 1:25 PM, gazzagames said:

so by that token (🤨 🤨) does something like dark prophesy not count as it doesn't cancel or ignore the drawing of a token, but causes you to draw 5 tokens instead???

No, because you are ignoring the token and not the effect.

For the same reason Counterspell does not count. You are canceling the token, not its effect. The effect does not exist until ST.4 (Apply chaos token effects), but the token is cancelled in ST.3. Similarly for Dark Prophecy. The token is ignored in ST.3, so it is not around to have an effect to cancel in ST.4.

Defiance, however, specifically says you are canceling the effect of the token.

[rsdockery 537]

The game effect is that you're resolving the token after revealing it. You ignore that effect, thereby triggering Diana's ability.

[bern1106 37]

This has been troubling me for a while as I'm a biiiiig Diana Stanley fan. Blame The Feeders from within..so I asked Matt. This is his reply.

Greetings,

 

A chaos token is a game effect which can be ignored or canceled. If you cancel or ignore a chaos token using one of your cards, you can place that card beneath Diana Stanley using her reaction ability. This includes both Counterspell and Dark Prophesy, as well as any other card effect that cancels or ignores a chaos token or a chaos token’s effect (such as Defiance, Grotesque Statue, etc).

 

Cheers,

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Matthew Newman

Senior Card Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

mnewman@fantasyflightgames.com

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by bern1106

[Burgie1996 9]

16 minutes ago, bern1106 said:

This has been troubling me for a while as I'm a biiiiig Diana Stanley fan. Blame The Feeders from within..so I asked Matt. This is his reply.

Greetings,

 

A chaos token is a game effect which can be ignored or canceled. If you cancel or ignore a chaos token using one of your cards, you can place that card beneath Diana Stanley using her reaction ability. This includes both Counterspell and Dark Prophesy, as well as any other card effect that cancels or ignores a chaos token or a chaos token’s effect (such as Defiance, Grotesque Statue, etc).

 

Cheers,

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Matthew Newman

Senior Card Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

mnewman@fantasyflightgames.com

 

 

This is brilliant - thank you!

I didn’t think that Dark Prophecy would count. And in regards to grotesque statue, I’d assume you wait until you’ve used up your last charge before you activate Diana’s ability?

[Astrophil84 50]

1 hour ago, Burgie1996 said:

And in regards to grotesque statue, I’d assume you wait until you’ve used up your last charge before you activate Diana’s ability?

In my understanding, you have to discard Grotesque Statue before you can trigger Diana‘s reaction.

Quote

If Grotesque Statue has no charges, discard it.

Quote

 After a card you own cancels or ignores a card effect or game effect, […]

But you could trigger it after you spent the penultimate charge.