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clanofwolves

How to get the TIE/LN in the mix

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So, seems FFG wanted to get/keep more of the old-school, classic SW ships on the table with X-wings doing solid (Wedge and a bit 'o Luke), B-Wings getting an assist, A-Wings getting an assist, Y-Wings getting an assist, TIE Interceptors doing solid (OK, Soontir only), Advanced getting an assist (OK, Vader only), but it seems the TIE/LN "which is one of the two most iconic space ships of the SW universe" hasn't been seen much use before the price adjustment and didn't get any assistance at all.

What's up FFG? 

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The TIE/LN seems pretty decently priced. You can fly the 7 Howl-Iden for the best swarm or put some of the situational 3 die ships and/or I5's to act as fillers.

Wampa and Gideon are both 30 points; Gideon is more reliable but Wampa draws more Agro.

Mauler Mithel and Scourge can boost ships to I5 (their abilities are nice, but the Initiative is a better reason to include them).

Del Meeko helps every friendly ship with defensive re-rolls.

Squad Leader Rudor can do some silly stuff with his ability.

 

And in a pinch, a 23 point academy is still solid.

Edited by impspy

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7 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

TIE/LN "which is one of the two most iconic space ships of the SW universe" hasn't been seen much use before the price adjustment and didn't get any assistance at all.

xWbhIjP.png

(on a more serious note, everything that didn't get cheaper has gotten better anyways, by virtue of the best stuff getting worse)

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I think the basic TIE/ln is probably in a decent spot, balance wise.  Just got a bit better, with Trajector Simulator and TIE Punishers getting pretty major nerfs.

Where the basic TIE has issues is in the fact that it's mentally taxing to play.  Putting in two or three games with TIEs gives me a bit of a headache.  I can't imagine trying to fly 6 games of a 7 ship list.

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12 minutes ago, impspy said:

The TIE/LN seems pretty decently priced.

This.

16 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

 the TIE/LN "which is one of the two most iconic space ships of the SW universe" hasn't been seen much use before the price adjustment and didn't get any assistance at all.

What's up FFG? 

If points adjustments are based on player favoritism and table time, the whole system is BS.

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12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

If points adjustments are based on player favoritism and table time, the whole system is BS.

So why put two TIE/LNs in the 2.0 starter if they aren't to be as useful in the game as the single T-65? If it is gameplay>fluff, then this was a bad marketing decision? Or they just selling shelf models? Logic just doesn't work....

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26 minutes ago, svelok said:

xWbhIjP.png

(on a more serious note, everything that didn't get cheaper has gotten better anyways, by virtue of the best stuff getting worse)

Particularly in Hyperspace format, where - as far as I know - the Resistance Bomber is the only ship which can carry one.

Also, Afterburners coming down to 6 points is nice. The TIE/ln has always suffered from being a disposable chaff unit which had to pay top dollar for any modifications because of its agility 3.

I noticed that now, I can field a "Where In The Galaxy Is Cive Rashon?" swarm with all the obsidians except Howlrunner - 7 Obsidian Squadron Pilots and Night Beast with Afterburners. Speed 3 straight with boost/focus/roll is a surprising amount of manoeuvrability from a cheap ship.

 

31 minutes ago, impspy said:

Squad Leader Rudor can do some silly stuff with his ability

He has gone up a lot in cost, to be fair. Squad leader got very expensive for a reason, but it did make the Maximum Ruthlessness Black Squadron force over the points limit.

25 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

  Putting in two or three games with TIEs gives me a bit of a headache.  I can't imagine trying to fly 6 games of a 7 ship list.

Having used the above Ruthlessness swarm in our local Yavin event, I can confirm that. 3-4 games on the trot is one thing, but I suspect I'd be completely mind-borked trying to use them for the entirety of a multi-day event. They're really good - Ruthless Swarms brutalise people who don't realise how nasty it is - but it is exhausting.

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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I've taken both the Wave 1 Thematic and extended events, undefeated, with mini crack swarms + Advanced. 

Thematic Advanced was Vader obviously, extended was Marek. Crack (mini)swarms are thriving where I am.

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7 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

So why put two TIE/LNs in the 2.0 starter if they aren't to be as useful in the game as the single T-65? If it is gameplay>fluff, then this was a bad marketing decision? Or they just selling shelf models? Logic just doesn't work....

What I mean is that point adjustments should not be made just because a ship isn't on the table.  If the ship is balanced, people may favor or disfavor it for a lot of other reasons over its actual cost.  Like, "I don't feel like running swarms" in the case of the /ln.

Also, as you point out, the basic TIE has been in the game since day one.  People know it.  The magic is gone.  Players tend to chase the latest hotness or new releases.   Making the TIE "exciting" again by making it broken-*** cheap should not be the goal of point adjustments.

Emphasizing which ships FFG wants to see played is what Hyperspace is for, IMHO, not pseudo-random coupon-like point adjustments to curry favor for the ship in Extended.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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Yeah. The biggest impediment to me when it comes to running TIEs isn't that I don't think they'll be effective. It's that mapping out maneuvers for 6-8 ships moving at the same initiative over the course of a 5+ round tourney is the sort of activity that would turn my brain to mush by game 4.

As has been noted, many of the things which were natural predators for the TIE swarm (Supernatural Reflexes and Advanced Sensor arc-dodgers, plus trajectory simulator Punishers) were nerfed in this round.  We'll see if these changes help them rise in usage for those players with the mental fortitude to run them.

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Unfortunately for Tie Fighters, the best way to fly them just happens to be in a playstyle that is very unpopular. I know some people like to fly swarms, but they must not be that common because I simply don't see them very much. Not to mention the fact that they kind of ruin the pace of the game. It doesn't feel like a fair match when the opponent wins because you simply did not have enough actual play time to kill their ships.

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I've been running Inferno Squad + Howlrunner + Night Beast for a few weeks now- it has been going very well (90% win rate). I split my swarm up into two trios (Hask, Marana, Meeko/Howl, Versio, Night Beast) and then have the two trios converge towards the ship(s) I've selected as my first target. It seems to confuse veteran players as I'm not running them as a single, solid swarm and it gives the advantage of having better arcs than a traditional swarm. The interactions of Inferno Squad play very well and Iden is a super annoying ship that makes your opponent re-think targeting priorities.

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I haven't flown TIE/lns yet, but I've flown against them.  They definitely seem rather potent when flown effectively, and I think the fact that they're not flown more is simply because there are so many other good options, too; and people are just able to pick whatever fits their preferred play style.

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Currently it's not very playable. All the named pilots are too expensive. They all need 1 or 2 points, which is a big deal on 30 point ships.

Only the generic Academy pilot is usable as a filler ship. You don't want more than one, cause you're better off spending the points elsewhere. I'd like to see generic TIE fighters: Academy 22 points / Obsidian 23 points / Black Squad 24 points.

Still, a Howlrunner TIE swarm can still win some matchups. They will be good Against Han Solo, who is definitely going to see play now.

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43 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

I'd like to see generic TIE fighters: Academy 22 points / Obsidian 23 points / Black Squad 24 points.

Whilst I don't specifically object to #1 and #2, #3 is "bloody heck no!" for me - Having used them myself, I'd say that the concept of taking 8 Black Squadron Aces with Ruthless is truly terrifying.

2 hours ago, Ikka said:

I've been running Inferno Squad + Howlrunner + Night Beast for a few weeks now- it has been going very well (90% win rate). I split my swarm up into two trios (Hask, Marana, Meeko/Howl, Versio, Night Beast) and then have the two trios converge towards the ship(s) I've selected as my first target. It seems to confuse veteran players as I'm not running them as a single, solid swarm and it gives the advantage of having better arcs than a traditional swarm. The interactions of Inferno Squad play very well and Iden is a super annoying ship that makes your opponent re-think targeting priorities.

Sounds good. I really ought to give that a try. Presumably Marksmanship on Seyn and....what? Elusive on Howlrunner? 3 x Ruthless? 3 x Crack Shot?

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Sounds good. I really ought to give that a try. Presumably Marksmanship on Seyn and....what? Elusive on Howlrunner? 3 x Ruthless? 3 x Crack Shot?

Swarm Tactics on Howly.

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25 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Seems odd if Seyn's in the other group, but can't argue if it works...

Both trios converge so that Howlrunner's ability effects as many as possible, but I don't usually trigger Swarm Tactics on Seyn- I just have her fire first of all the I4s. Howlrunner herself gains no benefits from Seyn putting a damage through, and Howlrunner/Night Beast together may push through enough damage so that Seyn can target another ship, thus giving Del Meeko's defense mod against two ships.

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1 hour ago, C3gorach said:

Personally I think Gideon is a great TIE pilot. Just 30pts for a 2(3)/3/3 Ship w/ 4 Init.

All the "bonus die" TIE fighters are great value for money. Scourge and Mauler really underline how much you're paying for Howlrunner and Iden Versio's abilities, given that they're I5 and only 32 points....

 

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1 hour ago, Giledhil said:

What I cannot understand is why the TIE/ln, unlike its T65 counterpart, didn't get a new red move. With a sloop to turn your swarm over more easily, I'm sure LNs would be more appealing.

Completely agree. Was so disappointed to see the 3+4ks still on the dial with no change. Especially since 1 ship can block both moves. They needed to be spread out like a 3k +5k or k + sloops.

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3 hours ago, Giledhil said:

What I cannot understand is why the TIE/ln, unlike its T65 counterpart, didn't get a new red move. With a sloop to turn your swarm over more easily, I'm sure LNs would be more appealing.

I think its because the Tie/ln is not the T65's coutnerpart. The Tie/ln's counterpart is the Z95. and neither have flashy manuevuers.

The T65's counterpart is probably the Phantom. Same attack, defense, both have extra moves via s-foil boosting/decloaking.

If 23 point Tie/lns had S-loops, T-rolls, or a 2/5 speed K-turn they woudl cost more and it would make other ships such as the Interceptor with its 3 Speed S-loops and T-65 with the 3 speed T-rolls feel less special.

 

Perhaps they could release a ship title or Tie/ln modification called ion engines mk II allowing you to alter the speed of a K-turn by 1 when you reveal your dial.

It could cost 3 points and would make tie swarms more challengin to block and also betters blockers themselves.

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