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Children of Bushidō

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A possible way of it shaking out, that may not have been considered. While the Scorpion get a lot of obvious power through Daisetsu, what with Shoju being named regent and all, he also seems like he may be harder to manipulate in the long run, while Sotorii is the perfect blend of bullheaded and oblivious to be (theoretically) easy to manipulate. What if, once the edict goes into effect, the Scorpion are able to subtly implicate Daisetsu in Hantei XXXVIII's mysterious death? They indirectly provide Shahai with a "healing tea," which of course she gives to Daisetsu, who then serves it to his father. When it turns out to be poison, the Scorpion can create enough gossip to imply that Daisetsu did it on purpose, which both makes people trust him less, and shatters his trust in Shahai. This leads to Daisetsu stepping down, letting Sotorii take the throne. It's overly convoluted, even for a Scorpion plot, and I honestly don't think Shoju would be alright with it, but it could be interesting.

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10 hours ago, sndwurks said:

Hantei Sotorii would be a bad Emperor, possibly one so bad as to rival Hantei XVI (but not likely to do so). Hantei Daisetsu, on the other hand, is shaping up to be the LAST Emperor, as all it would take is one solid disillusionment in Bushido, and he'll be on the path of tearing the whole system down.

And lead the Empire into a golden age of enlightenment as a constitutional monarchy? Sounds good to me. 

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On 1/30/2019 at 7:22 PM, Shiba Gunichi said:

Not saying we need some sort of "oh, but he loves his dog, feel bad for him" tale, but...

I'm saying that :) That would be fantastic.  Then they can give that dog a card.  Then Shahai can corrupt the dog.  It ticks off a ton of boxes.

I don't mind that Sotorii is such an unlikable person.  Sometimes people just have they heads way up their rears.  I think it would be interesting if that changed over time.  If he matured into a better person as the story goes on (and maybe Daisetsu becomes less sympathetic).  Though even if he never learns I think it's still fun to have the guy on the board.  Inevitably some clans will have to flock to his banner.  It will be interesting to see who that would be and why.

For the Crab picking a side in a potential civil war between the two sons I do think a greater offer of aid to the Crab cause could be seen as a big decider.  Also they would respect whoever they thought would make a stronger emperor.  There is a possibility Sotorii could somehow convince them he delivers on both those clauses.  Also that would put Shoju and Kisada on opposing sides, which I like very much.  Then again I do like the idea of a Crab Daisetsu alliance since it get's Daisetsu and Shahai closer to Kuni Yori and the Shadowlands which would be interesting.

Edited by phillos

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7 hours ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

No, being against torture is a good thing, and Daisetsu correctly identifies both problems with--it is neither ethical nor effective.  Real-world studies have been done, and Daisetsu's position is backed up by them.  People being tortured will tell the torturer what they think they want to hear, not the truth.

While you aren't wrong, you're talking about a point of view mainly established in the modern world.

Ask the Spanish Inquisition if torture worked. They'll tell you it did.

Ask 1700-early-1900's era American Police if torture worked. They'll tell you it did.

You aren't wrong that torture is incredibly wrong and real-world studies back that up. History is fairly opposite of that point of view, making Daisetsu centuries ahead of his time.

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48 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

While you aren't wrong, you're talking about a point of view mainly established in the modern world.

Ask the Spanish Inquisition if torture worked. They'll tell you it did.

Ask 1700-early-1900's era American Police if torture worked. They'll tell you it did.

You aren't wrong that torture is incredibly wrong and real-world studies back that up. History is fairly opposite of that point of view, making Daisetsu centuries ahead of his time.

And that's why he's the hero Rokugan needs, but Sotorii is the one it deserves.

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2 hours ago, Hida Jitenno said:

While you aren't wrong, you're talking about a point of view mainly established in the modern world.

Ask the Spanish Inquisition if torture worked. They'll tell you it did.

Ask 1700-early-1900's era American Police if torture worked. They'll tell you it did.

You aren't wrong that torture is incredibly wrong and real-world studies back that up. History is fairly opposite of that point of view, making Daisetsu centuries ahead of his time.

 

There are period documents criticizing the efficacy of torture (at least there were in the context of witch trials, which is what I was studying) . . . but in general, yes, you're right. People believed it worked, or didn't care if it worked because their actual goal was to get the answers they wanted rather than the truth.

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16 hours ago, sndwurks said:

And what must an honorable samurai do when faced with the unworthy liege who believes in their own righteousness?

For a truly honorable samurai, the answer is obvious. Unfortunately, writing a story with this kind of hard*ssry is not exactly easy. It is very anti-climatic to have the Evil Tyrant ascend to power only to be cut down on the spot by the Honorable Samurai. 

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21 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

Now an interesting twist you could put on this is Shahai either being forced to remain the palace to ensure Daisetsu's escape and continuing as a hostage (and if you want to rub even more salt in the wound having Sotorii take her as his bride to spite his brother).  This still would likely result in 

the fanbase murdering the FFG folks.

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3 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Hey if you are getting good story out of it it could be worth it.

Good story out of a Shaai-Sotorii arranged marriage?

Or out of murdering the creative team?

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1 minute ago, 987654321 said:

Good story out of a Shaai-Sotorii arranged marriage?

Or out of murdering the creative team?

I mean, let's be honest, hearing about a bunch of Mongolian samurai on horseback laying siege to the FFG HQ on the evening news would be amazing.

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Just now, Mangod said:

I mean, let's be honest, hearing about a bunch of Mongolian samurai on horseback laying siege to the FFG HQ on the evening news would be amazing.

Maybe as an April Fools story?

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4 minutes ago, 987654321 said:

Good story out of a Shaai-Sotorii arranged marriage?

Or out of murdering the creative team?

both😂, after all sacrifices must be made to Jigoku to get the Shadowlands train rolling.  And in old lore she was the Dark Daughter of Fu Leng, why not take a promotion this time and become the Demon Bride

Edited by Schmoozies

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On 1/31/2019 at 10:39 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:

Not every character needs to be interesting

 

On 1/31/2019 at 10:39 AM, Shiba Gunichi said:

Bolded the part where you're actually wrong.

I don't know if that's true. Certainly every aspect of a narrative should be relevant otherwise its just wasting page space, but finding something interesting is kind of like finding something funny in that it's highly subjective.

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25 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

 

I don't know if that's true. Certainly every aspect of a narrative should be relevant otherwise its just wasting page space, but finding something interesting is kind of like finding something funny in that it's highly subjective.

"Interesting" is, indeed, pretty subjective. A character one person finds "interesting" may be completely uninteresting to someone else. So, when I wrote earlier that Sotorii is a work-in-progress and that we'll ensure he's interesting and will become more so as his story unfolds, I actually used a subjective term. A better way of putting it is that the character must serve a dramatic role in the story that engages the reader's attention, while contributing to the development of other characters and advancing the story's plot. And the story will aim to do that with Sotorii (and, again, with every other character in the story).

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1 hour ago, DGLaderoute said:

"Interesting" is, indeed, pretty subjective. A character one person finds "interesting" may be completely uninteresting to someone else. So, when I wrote earlier that Sotorii is a work-in-progress and that we'll ensure he's interesting and will become more so as his story unfolds, I actually used a subjective term. A better way of putting it is that the character must serve a dramatic role in the story that engages the reader's attention, while contributing to the development of other characters and advancing the story's plot. And the story will aim to do that with Sotorii (and, again, with every other character in the story).

 

People can definitely mean several different things when they say "interesting." Sometimes they mean "I like them and I hope they succeed." Sometimes they mean "I don't like them, but I like the role they're serving in the story." Sometimes they mean "I can't look away from the trainwreck."

I'll admit that I have personal difficulty, as a reader, with characters who are serving a vital role in the story but I don't actually enjoy spending time with them. When a book spends too long in villain pov showing me what they're up to, I check out. Or Baltar in Battlestar Galactica -- I hit a point where I just wanted to turn the TV off every time he came on screen. There's a fine line between "love to hate them" and just straight-up "hate them."

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23 minutes ago, Kinzen said:

There's a fine line between "love to hate them" and just straight-up "hate them."

I believe the Wrestling term is X-Pac Heat: you're not jeering the Heel character, you just want the actor playing the Heel to get a job checking out groceries at the mall and never darken the Wresling ring with their presence again.

So far, I can say that at least I haven't found a character that I want excised from the story. :)

Edited by Mangod

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44 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

The more I go back and reread the ending of this...the more concerned I seem to get about supporting Daisetsu, after all. We'll have to see how this all plays out, as I'm not too keen on the idea of supporting Sotorii, either. 

They will both be problematic.  Once will likely be the next Steel Chrysantheum and may break the empire in the iron grip of tyranny before the clans rise up against him.  The other may potentially try and tear down the Celestial order and plunge the Empire into chaos that way.  Either way its going to be an interesting time to be in the Empire.  

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