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burek277

Any hope for the Empire?

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Hi all, back here after a long while. :)

(There might be some tiny spoilers below, but nothing beyond the mission setups.)

We're playing the Heart of the Empire, I'm using the Power of the Dark Side while my heroes are Wildfire, Drokatta, MHD and Davith. I won the first mission but lost the next two and the last one we played (On the Trail) wasn't even close - they won on turn 4, with 2 of them wounded. Now, they hit a huge power spike, with both Drokatta and Davith buying their XP weapons and MHD buying the Bacta Radiator. They also got a ton of good rewards and items: Intercepted Plans, Covert Operative, High-Impact Guard, Nova Cell Leader, and Bacta Pump.

The next mission is Drokatta's side mission and it looks like it's going to be a blowout. The way my figures are set out at the start means Drokatta can probably kill one of the Trandoshans and an Officer + put two damage on my remaining figures with the first activation. Davith does 5-6 damage with each attack against a black die. Wildfire can kill a Trando in 2 attacks with his basic weapon around 60% of the time and stun+weaken two more. MHD can spend every second activation picking up explosives and have an awesome attack when he doesn't. They're also very fast and will strain at will thanks to the Bacta Radiator.

I have some tricks of my own, with Dark Resurgence, Personal Shield Generators and a free Dewback Rider from Influence. I can also buy a 4 XP card, but I'm thinking of going with Power of Passion because their attacks aren't good enough to spend 2 threat on just yet. My plan is to try and stall them as long as possible, bringing in Heavy Stormstroopers (they're the cheapest unit that's likely to actually survive an attack) and maybe some Hired Guns in the mid-game to make sure some damage goes through.

However, it still feels like the mission won't even be close. I did some practice runs and they can basically clear my board on turn 1 and the things I throw at them afterward will barely stop them. I don't mind losing but I feel that if they get another good support card, the campaign might quickly snowball.

So anyway, does anyone have any ideas? Is it even worth using the Dewback Rider card as a final effort or should I just save that for the next mission?

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I found the Embrace suffering card a game changer in my campaign.  it made the Rebels think more about their activations, being in range of friendly fire, and worrying about unused class cards when the imperial player uses the rebel figures.  you could finally 'pin them down' yourself.

you do have to make sure that you are using the proper activation rules though, not having all rebels ready at the same time, make sure that they ready their gear, when they flip their activation token back

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28 minutes ago, Spidey NZ said:

 make sure that they ready their gear, when they flip their activation token back

The activation token is flipped at the end of a hero's activation, not at the beginning (when the hero readies their cards).

(Matters with Murne and Lead from the Front.)

Edited by a1bert

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24 minutes ago, a1bert said:

The activation token is flipped at the end of a hero's activation, not at the beginning (when the hero readies their cards).

(Matters with Murne and Lead from the Front.)

cheers, i was meaning when it gets flipped back to green

Edited by Spidey NZ

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12 hours ago, Spidey NZ said:

I found the Embrace suffering card a game changer in my campaign.  it made the Rebels think more about their activations, being in range of friendly fire, and worrying about unused class cards when the imperial player uses the rebel figures.  you could finally 'pin them down' yourself.

you do have to make sure that you are using the proper activation rules though, not having all rebels ready at the same time, make sure that they ready their gear, when they flip their activation token back

But I won't ever be able to activate Pin them Down with Embrace Suffering, unless Wildfire doesn't attack at all during a round. He will exhaust the card after his activation is done and it won't ready until the start of his activation. However, I would be able to use a power token on the figure when declaring an attack. Is that correct?

I can see the value of making them rethink everything, but spending 2 threat on an attack that's likely to deal around 4-5 damage (=1 rest action) to the target seems just a bit below what I'd expect my 4 XP card to achieve. I guess I can always push them back a bit instead.

Thanks for the tip, Pollux, I'll keep that in mind if things go too far! :)

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1 hour ago, burek277 said:

He will exhaust the card after his activation is done and it won't ready until the start of his activation.

He can’t exhaust it if he doesn’t attack.  A common tactic among Imperial Players is to save threat and deploy more groups at once.  If you go a round with nothing on the board, he can’t use it, and they’re going to face down more or stronger Imperial groups with two heroes stunned and weakened.  

Of course, you have to budget two threat for the attack in addition to the threat for those units.  It’s expensive but it’ll hurt.

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I'm still getting the threat before the EoR effects, so I can bring 6 threat worth of stuff at primary deployment, then use Embrace Suffering at end of round 1. Nice!

For the purposes of the Embrace Suffering attack, are hostile figures the heroes or the imperial figures? Is Drokatta herself a hostile figure during this attack? It could be relevant for the Repeater Cannon double strain ability.

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All figures are considered hostile when selecting a target.  It also says a figure cannot target itself with the attack.  

I’m not sure if there’s a ruling regarding whether or not a figure can be damaged by their own attack like that.  I’m tempted to say no personally because you’re already past the point where you selected a target, but this prevents a lot of abilities that are understood to be working from having any effect (including Pin Them Down).

(Latest version of the RRG, page 6

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/4a/86/4a865e7b-418b-4ff7-82f8-461393c0a5b0/swi01_rules_reference.pdf)

 

Edited by Uninvited Guest

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A figure is considered hostile to itself, so the repeater cannon would hit Drokkatta as well.

As for Pin Them Down, that ability is triggered after you resolve an attack.  This means that CT's player would be in control and choose the targets (and can't choose friendlies).  I don't think Embrace Suffering would let you even choose to activate Pin Them Down since control is lost after the attack (end of step 7).

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1 hour ago, player678037 said:

As for Pin Them Down, that ability is triggered after you resolve an attack. 

Oh, that’s right.  Good point.

EDIT:  In double-checking this I did find a post from @a1bertfrom June saying you could argue that the Rebel Player didn’t resolve attack and therefore it couldn’t be used at all.

Edited by Uninvited Guest

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29 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Oh, that’s right.  Good point.

EDIT:  In double-checking this I did find a post from @a1bertfrom June saying you could argue that the Rebel Player didn’t resolve attack and therefore it couldn’t be used at all.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that point myself, but it hasn't come up in our campaigns so I haven't worried too much...yet.  If so, that's a boon for the Imperial in that Barrage can't be triggered by CT after Embrace Suffering.

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2 hours ago, player678037 said:

A figure is considered hostile to itself, so the repeater cannon would hit Drokkatta as well.

As for Pin Them Down, that ability is triggered after you resolve an attack.  This means that CT's player would be in control and choose the targets (and can't choose friendlies).  I don't think Embrace Suffering would let you even choose to activate Pin Them Down since control is lost after the attack (end of step 7).

ah yes good point, after attack has resolved, you relinquish control of the rebel figure

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Thanks for the tips, everyone, and for the clarification about Pin them Down. It's a shame, that would be devastating!

I managed to eke out a win in the end - end of round 6, three heroes wounded and one halfway there, with one terminal standing. Bringing in the Dewback at end of turn 1, using Heavy Stormtroopers, using my survive items at the first opportunity, and constantly pushing them back with Embrace Suffering slowed them down just enough.

I only attacked with Embrace Suffering once and that was a dodge, but the threat of me using it made them think about a lot of things. Pushing them back was also useful because it moved the circle of MHD's Bacta Radiator.

I'm really looking forward to the next one!

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Very nice! What was their reaction? 

Playing as the IP in our first JR run through, I was getting demolished having won only 1 mission. I wound up winning the Finale. The two Rebel players were incredibly pissed because they steamrolled me the whole campaign. 

I too saved some Agenda cards for the finale and that’s just how it goes with this game sometimes. 

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They were pretty disappointed so that made me kind of sad. It was a really close game which I think is as good as it gets. They did keep saying how they have no chance in this mission which was weird, because I was thinking the exact same for myself. :D

Now on to the next one!

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On 1/29/2019 at 2:57 PM, Pollux85 said:

Just do what we all do. Give yourself extra threat. More powerful dice. Rerolls. Extra agenda cards. If they complain, tell them to deal with it because you are making things interesting. It's not cheating. It's a house-rule.

You own this game. You own their fun. Remind them of that. 

Wow.....I mean....you do realize that when you're the IP and the owner of the game there isn't a game without the other players, right?  

Yeah, I'm an IP who has popped a couple of agenda cards for myself because it led to more fun.  I've also straight up told the rebel players how to win the game we played on Saturday.  I've dialed it up or down to keep dramatic tension.  We're going into Jarrod's personal mission next and I showed him the reward card so he can decide how badly he wants to win that one.  But we are all in this together.  I'm playing a game with my friends.  

 

To the OP, spread your groups out more.  Pin Them Down works on targets within two spaces.  Have a unit up front to block his LOS and draw his far keeping other more important units from PTD.  Also, no one likes to get c-blocked on a character mission.  Yeah, try to win but don't be disappointed if you lose that one. 

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Just now, Zrob314 said:

I showed him the reward card so he can decide how badly he wants to win that one.

(Not sure how to read that, so just in case:) Reward cards are open information, and can be looked at at any time... The rebels read the information on the side mission cards and consider the rewards to see which mission they want to play.

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1 minute ago, a1bert said:

(Not sure how to read that, so just in case:) Reward cards are open information, and can be looked at at any time... The rebels read the information on the side mission cards and consider the rewards to see which mission they want to play.

I'm not treating them as secret, it's just never come up.  If someone asks what it is I show them, if they don't I don't.  This was more of a "Hey, IMHO this upgrade for JAX isn't really compatible with your play style and you might find the loss of pierce to be detrimental. You might want to consider how you do this one and whether or not you mind if you lose."
But in our campaigns we also play it that all character missions get played as additional side missions and the only thing anyone can get from them is the character reward (no xp, no money, no influence).

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1 hour ago, Zrob314 said:

Wow.....I mean....you do realize that when you're the IP and the owner of the game there isn't a game without the other players, right?  

No, he’s right.  I also house rule that my players can’t use the letter ‘e’ when scheduling our next game.  Teaches them outside the box thinking 😂.

@Pollux85 was joking, don’t worry.

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3 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

No, he’s right.  I also house rule that my players can’t use the letter ‘e’ when scheduling our next game.  Teaches them outside the box thinking 😂.

@Pollux85 was joking, don’t worry.

I mean... if I'm being honest, I was only half-joking. I'm not above altering the rules every now and then to keep things interesting. The game is not fun if it's not a challenge, but it cuts both ways. We started off playing co-op games like Pandemic, so the idea that winning or losing isn't really the point is strongly ingrained at my table. My players know that if they play the game like an RPG and come up with good reason why they should get a +1 accuracy on a roll, or why a certain trooper actually deployed a few spaces away from the normal spawn point, I let them do it. 

 

Funny enough, the reward cards are another thing I don't show them. The risk of a lousy reward is something they just have to accept, but that's okay because they win probably 70% of the time. 

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After reading this topic i decided to share my last ToL campaign story.
I have a veteran group to play with. We played 1 Core campaign  me as imp,  Garkhan, Mak Fenn Gideon was rebels. I was steamrolled and defeated. After that i played several App game with them. Even in hard mode we not even sweat
 Now they asked me to play the Imp again because the App is not even chalange for them. (I chose to not suggest them to use not A or S tier heroes) Honestly I was desperate for a payback.
So they chose Garkhan Vinto and Ko-toon. I chosed Military Might. Started with "Endless Ranks" and i spawned mainly Deathtroopers, dewback raider and Jet-troopers like a mad man. My onley realy used Agenda card was "High valued target"
Imagine the faces at 5 threat lvl when after you make the first hero wounded and next round you spawn 1 more elite and 1 more regular deathtrooper on the board...

At the begining of the last round was the point when i saw the hoplessnes in those eyes and as an imperial that is exactly what i wanted to saw in those rebellious eyes.

But as a friend i felt sorry and i let them win by missplaceing the target figure and not moveing it out of the fire zone. But is was too transparent.

We end up with an agreement to use balanced groups and class decks to keep the fun.

 But the conclusion: If you want to mop up the Rebs you have the tools for the job.

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We've been progressing through the campaign, each winning a few missions. The difference is that they're winning the story missions easily and I'm just barely squeaking out side mission wins. CT means that I'm very limited in what troops I can bring and it's actually pathetic how bad Maul is. He gets stunned and weakened, then one-shot by Davith. :(

As far as positioning goes, I've found it pretty much impossible to mitigate the ability. Deployment rules mean that the figures will necessarily be within 2 spaces. Starting positions are also usually bunched together. If he does stun some and they survive, it usually still makes more sense to shoot with them than trying to move them so they can't be stunned next turn.

Edited by burek277

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