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2 minutes ago, Redblock said:

Because no one wants to give hating Kannan extra force

Is Kannan useful?  Now that his ability doesn't work on himself I don't really see who is he defending.

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This has been an interesting experience.

At first it was almost all excitement. I haven't seen something like this in awhile from any gaming company. I don't know how to put it, but it seems so many developers just end up finding ways to accidentally fan every flame in the community instead of actually addressing them. So it was really nice to see so many concerns actually being addressed and so much happiness about it.

Last night I started seeing some more of the concerns though. It does seem like there are a few places where they made some odd or extreme choices. Nerfing things related to a dominant combo, but then issuing errata that nullifies it anyway seems a bit odd. Then there's some controversy over things like Ezra not being altered, when things like him were reduced. These do stand out and I feel like they should be discussed even if that sounds negative.

I don't feel like that takes away from the initial excitement of this whole thing. The number of things that seem a little off or extreme are still way outnumbered by the number of fixes across the board. I think the most frustrating part about it is just that it will take six months to see the extreme changes addressed if those affected you.

Although, not necessarily. I totally wouldn't blame FFG if they decided that they went overboard in a few places and claimed that they "accidentally released an early draft" of the points update, and just give us a new one right away. 😜

It might turn out for the best, though. That's the thing about balance changes. Sometimes the stuff that really seems like it matters at the time, turns out to not matter so much when people get used to the new way and see those changes from a new perspective.

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20 hours ago, svelok said:

you can initiative kill stuff, and it still allows you to shoot twice so long as it's two different arcs (two sides of bowtie turret, or front arc + single turret)

True. Forgot that. Han gunner on VCX is still a thing, esp with VCX price drop.

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3 minutes ago, Jokubas said:

This has been an interesting experience.

At first it was almost all excitement. I haven't seen something like this in awhile from any gaming company. I don't know how to put it, but it seems so many developers just end up finding ways to accidentally fan every flame in the community instead of actually addressing them. So it was really nice to see so many concerns actually being addressed and so much happiness about it.

Last night I started seeing some more of the concerns though. It does seem like there are a few places where they made some odd or extreme choices. Nerfing things related to a dominant combo, but then issuing errata that nullifies it anyway seems a bit odd. Then there's some controversy over things like Ezra not being altered, when things like him were reduced. These do stand out and I feel like they should be discussed even if that sounds negative.

I don't feel like that takes away from the initial excitement of this whole thing. The number of things that seem a little off or extreme are still way outnumbered by the number of fixes across the board. I think the most frustrating part about it is just that it will take six months to see the extreme changes addressed if those affected you.

Although, not necessarily. I totally wouldn't blame FFG if they decided that they went overboard in a few places and claimed that they "accidentally released an early draft" of the points update, and just give us a new one right away. 😜

It might turn out for the best, though. That's the thing about balance changes. Sometimes the stuff that really seems like it matters at the time, turns out to not matter so much when people get used to the new way and see those changes from a new perspective.

The HWK-290 was more than just Dash/Roark. Roark's ability is extremely potent in any list he's part of, despite no longer synergizing with Swarm Tactics (VCX and others can still pull a Han/Roark double tap with decent results). Moldy's 3 dice + additional arc for pilot abilities was a fair bit under costed for the effect it ended up having. Jan can turn any (other than herself) 3 die friendly into a 4 die monster for a stress on her. Mux when flown well is ace bane. Palob, not much needs to be said about him other than you're praying he rolls blank greens when he's on the table since anything else isn't letting many if any shots through thanks to Moldy + special Palob Jam.

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3 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

@Gornik Here's a link to a google doc spreadsheet with a comparison of points changes old vs new. That's what you're asking for, right?

Exactly! Glad to get this one 🙂

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9 minutes ago, Jokubas said:

Then there's some controversy over things like Ezra not being altered, when things like him were reduced.

If my time on these boards has taught me anything, it's that the only possible explanation is that the CEO of Disney has personally demanded that Ezra be made useless in an attempt to downplay Rebels material in order to promote stuff more recognizable by today's kids, like Prequel ships.  This is proof positive that the game has been dead for years, and is currently a zombie brought back to life by chemtrails, which the government was trying to use to brainwash people into believing that Tatooine is round and the Yavin landing wasn't faked.

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33 minutes ago, Gallanteer said:

True. Forgot that. Han gunner on VCX is still a thing, esp with VCX price drop.

He's still more than double the price of a Veteran Turret Gunner. He's more flexible (VTG triggers after a primary, Han triggers before so your normal attack can be anything, eg missiles etc) and I7, but still not cheap.

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On 1/28/2019 at 12:19 PM, KiAdiMoody said:

Yep, you can squeeze any 3 of them into a 200pt list.

I didn't even think to check this. With the title drop u can even give them all the title if u don't take A, which taking the cannon one seemed wasteful, but then realized they also dropped jamming beam to 0. Could be an interesting list

Edited by Skandranon

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19 hours ago, gjnido said:

Is Kannan useful?  Now that his ability doesn't work on himself I don't really see who is he defending.

Not really, I tried out hatin Kanan and found too many things need to line up ideally, including your rolls, in order to get the 120+ points worth from him.

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4 minutes ago, mcintma said:

Not really, I tried out hatin Kanan and found too many things need to line up ideally, including your rolls, in order to get the 120+ points worth from him.

What did you fly him with? I’m not sure he’s viable, but I will try until I can’t come up with any more options :P

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21 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

@Gornik Here's a link to a google doc spreadsheet with a comparison of points changes old vs new. That's what you're asking for, right?

This is very nice.  Thanks to whoever for adding int he changes to the slots as well as the points.

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45 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

What did you fly him with? I’m not sure he’s viable, but I will try until I can’t come up with any more options :P

Attack Shuttle - •“Zeb” Orrelios - 38
    •“Zeb” Orrelios - Spectre-4 (34)
        Dorsal Turret (2)
        •Leia Organa (2)

VCX-100 Light Freighter - •Kanan Jarrus - 128
    •Kanan Jarrus - Spectre-1 (84)
        Fire-Control System (2)
        Ion Cannon Turret (4)
        •Chewbacca (4)
        •Maul (11)
        Hull Upgrade (2)
        •Ghost (0)
        •Ezra Bridger (18)
        Hate (3)

RZ-1 A-wing - Phoenix Squadron Pilot - 34
    Phoenix Squadron Pilot - (30)
        Ion Missiles (4)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

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1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

What did you fly him with? I’m not sure he’s viable, but I will try until I can’t come up with any more options :P

By no means am I claiming to be a master (or my list the best version), but a few things became clear:

- it's dependent on rolling alot of eyeballs with all those force points, but with the VCX rolling no greens you're hoping to roll hits/eyes on reds, but I rolled hits/blanks such that I noticed my force was always at 4. Had trouble getting locks because Kanan is easily blocked OR tractored (you would think not due to large base, but with 0 Agi Kanan took 3 hits and was tractored over a rock which ruined his entire day) OR the guy I locked would arc-dodge the clumsy Ini3 VCX

- timing of hate was often bad: you'd get damaged at Ini 4+, not spend force because 0 green dice, then come to Kanan's attack at full 4 force but not because of hate, just because no force was spent LOL

- hard to keep friendly ships in the VCX arc if you are going for the double-tap attacks, with again the VCX getting blocked or tossed about by tractor, but I feel you have to attack 2x or 120+ points cannot be viable

- with eveything to track on this build, I must admit I missed a few hate triggers and Kanan's ability at least once

It's fun though and I got the idea from you Spidermana so Thanks ;) Just don't feel it's meta

PS. one more thing, I think Ezra gunner (18) is the brick holding this down, taking VTG (6) and instead Ezra in the shuttle could be the thing?

Edited by mcintma

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28 minutes ago, mcintma said:

PS. one more thing, I think Ezra gunner (18) is the brick holding this down, taking VTG (6) and instead Ezra in the shuttle could be the thing?

I’ve considered it and am looking into it further.

The number one most important thing so far is the wingnman. Kanan doesn’t want to be the target, so you’ve gotta offer up something reaaaally tempting. My best flight with Hatin’ Kanan so far was with Luke, because my opponent was scared of Luke.

Kanan’s goal is to slow roll it, let his wingman fly way ahead (within range for his pilot ability to proc, still) and draw the enemy in. Kanan can spend all of his force defending his wingman (which brings Luke’s natural tankiness up to 11), while the wingman gets to wreck the opponent (Luke is probably best off bringing a ProTorp IMO).

Pairing Kanan with a scary hammer is important to keep a little heat off of Kanan. Luke works well, somebody has suggested Corran, and I’m going to try out Norra in the ARC, myself.

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1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:

I’ve considered it and am looking into it further.

The number one most important thing so far is the wingnman. Kanan doesn’t want to be the target, so you’ve gotta offer up something reaaaally tempting. My best flight with Hatin’ Kanan so far was with Luke, because my opponent was scared of Luke.

Kanan’s goal is to slow roll it, let his wingman fly way ahead (within range for his pilot ability to proc, still) and draw the enemy in. Kanan can spend all of his force defending his wingman (which brings Luke’s natural tankiness up to 11), while the wingman gets to wreck the opponent (Luke is probably best off bringing a ProTorp IMO).

Pairing Kanan with a scary hammer is important to keep a little heat off of Kanan. Luke works well, somebody has suggested Corran, and I’m going to try out Norra in the ARC, myself.

Right, a solid hypothesis, it's just that ... Hatin' Kanan aint "Hatin" if he's not being shot ;) It feels weird because you want to let the Hate flow, but it could be that saving all your Hate for the end game is the way to go!

I'd been playing him as a damage sponge (hence Chewbacca) with 2 flankers

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51 minutes ago, mcintma said:

Hatin' Kanan aint "Hatin" if he's not being shot ;)

But he’s also not Hatin’ if he doesn’t spend the force charges ;)

So first round of combat you want Kanan hanging back, out of range, spending force charges to defend [your hammer of choice]. Then the next round, it’s a touch scarier for them to shoot Kanan, especially if he’s going to be shooting at them (Magva is a good option in these cases, too, if you want to allocate those points there).

Again, not saying it’s top tier, but I think if flown well it’s worth exploring.

 

 

Edit rather than double post, @mcintma here’s a thought for flying Ezra in the shuttle:

 Gives you two 3-Die attacks for your wingmen, you can coordinate Kanan, and destress Ezra with Cassian’s ability. Magva might also be a good option, but you’d have to drop Chewie or something to keep Tac Officer on her.

UT-60D U-wing - •Cassian Andor - 49
    •Cassian Andor - Raised by the Rebellion (47)
        Tactical Officer (2)
        Pivot Wing (Open) (0)

Attack Shuttle - •Ezra Bridger - 41
    •Ezra Bridger - Spectre-6 (41)

VCX-100 Light Freighter - •Kanan Jarrus - 106
    •Kanan Jarrus - Spectre-1 (84)
        Fire-Control System (2)
        Dorsal Turret (2)
        •Maul (11)
        •Chewbacca (4)
        •Ghost (0)
        Hate (3)

Total: 196/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Edited by SpiderMana

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On 1/28/2019 at 9:10 PM, Hiemfire said:

Static Discharge vanes up to 8 ( I guess they still hate Ionization abilities)

Thought a little bit about this one.

-4Lom crew did go 1pt down, so the 4Lom Vanes combo increased netto 1pt.

-Did they see something with Black One and Discharge Vanes?

-future proofing:

Upgrade coming which synchronises with Vanes?

Maybe the new cloud obstacles do ionise you by flying through. Would be pretty gross, with 4Lom G1A flying through "Hello there, gonna shoot you, btw, do you like 1 ion and 1 stress, here, take them."

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On 1/29/2019 at 11:51 AM, JJ48 said:

If my time on these boards has taught me anything, it's that the only possible explanation is that the CEO of Disney has personally demanded that Ezra be made useless in an attempt to downplay Rebels material in order to promote stuff more recognizable by today's kids, like Prequel ships.  This is proof positive that the game has been dead for years, and is currently a zombie brought back to life by chemtrails, which the government was trying to use to brainwash people into believing that Tatooine is round and the Yavin landing wasn't faked.

The Grand Inquisitor would like a word with you...in private.

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