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Anonymus2

Endeavors and achievments slow down the game.

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After a couple of session i have decided to completely scrap the endeavor and achievment section. It makes no sense really.

It takes too much time to first "make an endeavor"(or a "mission") in a game that is open ended(the players do what they want ie not being told what to do). If i would make an endeavor for everything they are doing i would have to make maybe four of them right now, and i would have to do them while playing.

I am not running a company here and do not keep track record on everything my players do(only the most basic).

So i have decided to leave out the endeavor section(with achievments and all that) and only go for profit factor.

Anyone else feeling the same as me or have you found a good way around the problem?

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I can see how the Endeavours idea works, but I didn't really feel it worked for me.. I've kinda gone mainly for the whole Profit Factor thing as well, the PC's feel more like they're rewarded well for a job well done but don't accomplish so much if they've messed things up somewhat. Also, Profit Factor can be burnt if they want to achieve something really big, e.g. outfitting a new ship, etc but so far they've not been inclined to reduce their Profits.

 So, I'd overall have to agree with you, my players have been known to go off on complete tangents forcing me to do some serious winging it, so I just modify the game accordingly.

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I am similiar. I only use profit factor.. and when they happen to complete one of my baggillion open-ended quests, they will earn  PF, or lose it should stuff not go their way.

I have "Endeavors" only so they get an idea of the scope of the task, and can atleast have a goal... but the whole micro-management achievement system I totally ignore. It's fine for people who cannot come up with tons of content out of thin air and need pre-emptive planning. This is true for any RPG tho'... some groups like pre-made adventures, others, like myself, cannot stand them.. and opt to put in the dirty work making a living/breathing open ended sandbox. I can certainly see the merit tho, of the system.

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Generally I don't map out the Endeavor ahead of time.  I have a few endeavor ideas, and plot hooks.  Then I make up various elements of it as the Endeavor proceeds, and at the end create the full Endeavor.

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If you ignore Achievement points in favor of +/- Profit Factor, how would you handle Achievement point granting ship components and talents?  Obviosly luxury quarters and barracks have narrative advantages, but part of carrot/stick comes from those +100 Achievement points bonus.

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Well the Rogue trader ship is right now only a Hazeroth Raider and it has a teleportarium plus reinforced bulkheads. They have managed to trick a noble merchant into retirement and purchased his Transport, they will use it for transporting troops.

And about achievement points, it is too obstructive, it slows down the game. While it does look good on paper(when you look at it) it is really a P in the B, first you (as gm) comes up with some ideas about what has to be done(with the AP), but the players will end up doing something completely different, so you have now wasted your time making a list with AP AND you have to make a new one.

As for the bonuses i would makee some quick ingame adjustment maybe some pilgrims/priest will be more easily convinced to set up a church on a newly discovered world if you have a shrine onboard(+10on charm or commerce or whatever).

@Dainor Suloc: That is what i tried more or less, in the end i ended up making  more and more endeavors and it just takes too much time to handle on my free time( i already have to think about what happens when the crew did "this and that" last time).

Sorry may sound like ranting(maybe it is lol).

BTW as a side note how far would you let someone use the teleportarium? In space battles i have allowed for "1square" (10000).

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Anonymus said:

BTW as a side note how far would you let someone use the teleportarium? In space battles i have allowed for "1square" (10000).

Good question.  I might treat it somewhat like a weapon system in regards to range; say 4 or 5 VU as base ranges.  The penalty for "long range" could be viewed as difficulties maintaining the cohesion of the transport, while at closer distances the teleport sees less diffusion of the signal/energy.  But, yes, easily 1 VU.  Maybe 2.  Might try posting this either to the Rules Question sub, or directly to FFG; if the answer isn't already hiding somewhere in the book.

-=Brother Praetus=-

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MDGibson said:

I pretty much ignore the Navigation rules because they're unnecessary in my opinion.  If it works for your campaign change the rules however you wish.

 

Yes yes of course. :) Im just asking if im doin it rite. ;) The navigation i agree(since no one in my party wanted to be one).

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I pretty much ignore the navigation to except for danger moments like close to storms or for determing speed of the journey.

Achievements i use sparely - Sometimes i set up endevours when there is something that streches over a long time and i use Achiement to meassure succes and give me some pointers for bonus xp.

The system allows the players to do amazing things without having to playout each detail of for example colonization of a planet.

When i create endeavors i use them as guidelines and inspiration for the players for something to achieve certain people to talk to make alliance with etc .

        

 

 

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Nojo509 said:

Has anyone let their players design their own Endeavors?

 

 

That is an interresting idea.

In a way my player already do that since i encourage them to figure out what to do themselves. In the beginning i just said "Ok, so here is the Koronus Expanse it is more or less uncharted, here is the Calixis Sector(They played Dark Heresy). You are in your ship here, what do you do now?"

It is just that everytime they do something we have to pause the game, make alot of "checkpoints" in the endeavour, make achievment points for the "checkpoints". Sure if your players(and you) do not mind halting the action... :/

So i made a sandboxgame for them(which the game encourages heavily) and they come up with new ideas all the time(since alot of stuff takes ALOT of (ingame)time ie: "Ah ok now we have this, in the meantime we can do this and this" etc.

Sorry if it seems like ranting, just putting my problem out there for ppl to see. ;)

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Anonymus said:

That is an interresting idea.

It's one that works well; the players, afterall, are the ones determining the course and speed, they're the ones looking for opportunities to make a profit... so let them find a goal to work towards (an Endeavour), get them to determine what they need to do to achieve it (the objectives) and then work out the points values that accompany that, and the presence of any complications or problems (misfortunes). The main part of the GM's job in adventure building then is keeping them plied with plot hooks and rumours...

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I pretty much let the PC's decide their Endeavors and then build plots and schemes around it.  I put in "achievement" side plots worth certain amounts of points and tally it all up at the end of the Endeavor Arc to calc profit factor the same way I used to calc xp in D&D heh.  I basically only use the Endeavor/Achievement system if it's something "expected", the PC's set out to do something with monetary gain or lasting impression, like setting up a colony, selling an exotic xenos hunting trip for nobles, etc.  When the PC's go off on non-buisness tangents, it's back into make-it-up-as-needed GM style heh, but those tangents usually don't bring any PF right off the bat, if they find resources that are exploitable on a tangent, they need to do the ground work to make it profitable (turn it into an endeavor). 

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Better question, does anyone actually use Achievement Points or Endeavors exactly as they are told to? I personally scrapped both of them due I see no need for them. My players gain PF if they finish a job. The loss or are negated PF depends if they do bad or one of my plot hooks need it. Ex: Pirates raid their orbital station as they are gone....Wait I haven't done that yet...*DING* Idea.

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Well i'm planning on using them as written, however i am going to put the senchal in charge of coming up with them (with me) and presenting them to the RT and crew so they can decide which to pursue in 'board meetings'. Other players can also do this to of course. The senchal will then keep the record of achievment points as befitting the job role.

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