Jump to content
That Blasted Samophlange

What Imperial troops are left (Canon only)

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, Derrault said:

They might be cannon, but do we have a single mini that wasn’t in a movie (or the Battlefront video game)?

Rebel Officer is pretty clearly Gideon from IA.  Imperial Officer could be based off a couple of characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Katarn said:

 

Supertrooper. They are a specialist stormtrooper unit.  They are better than stormtroopers in every way.  They soak up the energy from stars and shoot it through their helmet lenses.

Shootertrooper. They are a specialist stormtrooper unit entirely equipped with automatic weapons.

Gale-force-winds-and-minor-property-damage-Troopers. They are a specialist trainee stormtrooper unit.

Corridor Troopers. They are a specialist stormtrooper unit for fighting in corridors.

Room Troopers. They are a specialist stormtrooper unit with close ties to the corridor troopers who escort them to their designated battle zones.

Retcon Troopers.  They are a specialist stormtrooper unit with close ties to the ISB and a higher power that dwells within a lofty towered castle.  Among other tasks they will make all the previously mentioned troopers canon while deleting the existence of others.

 

I remember when the words 'A new type of stormtrooper: The Dark Trooper' had some kind of weight to me as an excited 13 year old.  Now, in my cynicism, I just see things like specialist range troopers and shoretroopers as fairly silly. I might be getting too old for this.

Agreed.  I like variation as much as the next guy, but I feel Disney has kinda gone overboard with designing new trooper units for their films.  The Range Troopers or Patrol troopers, for instance, are both pretty silly and don't fit well with the established trooper types.  Same with the FO Executioner stormtrooper, and a riot stormtrooper in the middle of a gunfight.

That said, the Mimban Stormtroopers, ie, stormtroopers with some extra armor and specialized gear but still obviously stormtroopers, were a great idea. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:

It's because back then, a new type of stormtrooper was actually a new idea. Now it's like a new flavor of Mtn. Dew or Coke. They've had enough flavor variations now that the idea of another one is just, whatever.

ZOMG that's the answer! We need Wildberry Blast Stormtroopers!

You wanna Stormtrooper Cranberry?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

Agreed.  I like variation as much as the next guy, but I feel Disney has kinda gone overboard with designing new trooper units for their films.  The Range Troopers or Patrol troopers, for instance, are both pretty silly and don't fit well with the established trooper types.  Same with the FO Executioner stormtrooper, and a riot stormtrooper in the middle of a gunfight.

That said, the Mimban Stormtroopers, ie, stormtroopers with some extra armor and specialized gear but still obviously stormtroopers, were a great idea. 

Before Disney, every Star Wars movie (except for The Phantom Menace for obvious reasons) introduced a new type of stormtrooper, they have just continued the trend.

I agree that Disney can't continue the trend past a certain point (same with TIE fighter variations) or it starts to feel less like a cohesive setting. It would be cool to see more callbacks to established trooper types, or see them in different contexts (i.e. the Rangetroopers could have just as easily been Snowtroopers wearing magboots) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

they have just continued the trend.

I agree that Disney can't continue the trend past a certain point

Arguably Disney has accelerated the trend, and codifying the licenses has built on non-movie uniform variations. I think it's already past that point. Rogue 1 as much as I love it, added two types of troopers for example. Some of the prequels introduced more than one kind too iirc, though I haven't seen them in ages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Jet Troopers haven't been mentioned.

They show up in Rebels cartoon, and other FFG games.

up there where someone said mandalorian supercomandos

and someone else did jump troopers

 

soooooo... they have been mentioned, you lied to me, and one day I will have my revenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Space also is actually pretty varied - Earth has a whole bunch of climates and biomes as a pretty balanced and generally hospitable planet, even aside from Space Opera there are a lot of extreme and exotic environments which can arise on a variety of terrestrial planets which are still habitable (either to exotic aliens or humanoids with gear). It makes an amount of sense to standardize certain kits and training for these environments, even if say "lava planets" do not occur quite frequently enough that every stormtrooper needs extra thermal shielding and anti-caustic air filters. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

The eastern and western roman empire had differences in their legions.   The American civil war and Spanish civil war each had a dizzying array of uniforms and equipment. It's not surprising that a galaxy spanning empire is going to have variation in military equipment. 

I agree in theory. There's more man-hours in one year of The Empire than in all of Terran human civilization. But here, there's the added problem of marketing via different rules for all these things. If you play musket era games, the dizzying array of uniforms don't all come with different rules to make life complicated. A lot of things should be identical stats IMO.

A dizzying array of stormtroopers is not really variety if you only sell stormtroopers. This is a common problem in post-2005 game design studios. The attitude is more and more commonly, that each faction/race/whatever should only be played one way. Like how GW got rid of wood elf spearmen and chariots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:

A dizzying array of stormtroopers is not really variety if you only sell stormtroopers. This is a common problem in post-2005 game design studios. The attitude is more and more commonly, that each faction/race/whatever should only be played one way. Like how GW got rid of wood elf spearmen and chariots.

If this were a simulation attempting to recreate some sort of logical strategic contest then I would agree.  But the interesting thing with all of FFG's star wars mini games so far is that they are not battle simulations, they are movie scene recreations made competitive.  So everything in the game is about recreating the "feeling" those units inspire rather than simulating a military action with logical realism.  I'm not just saying "meh, it's star wars" because you truly could make a simulationist style wargame out of star wars, and it has been done in the past.  With this game, however, they are going for the feeling.  We see fleet troopers in the movie in a close quarters, frenetic firefight so in the game they are close quarters specialists.  In ESB we see snowtroopers ominously advancing with Vader through echo base so in game they are good at...  ominously advancing.  If we ever get hoth troopers, I would imagine that they would have some sort of ability about hunkering down and staunchly defending.  Another game like this is Heroes of Normandie by Devil Pig Games.  It is a WW2 wargame that is about recreating movies like kelly's heroes.  All this said, I do think that FFG has actually given each faction quite a bit of variety!  The mirrored releases actually help ensure that both factions are able to create different feeling lists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Geressen said:

latest?cb=20070818231355

Halm.png

Dewback1.jpg

managed to find an image of the base and 2 upgraded versions^

@Derrault not battlefront, or movie... star wars galactic battlegrounds.

@UnitOmega yeah these use flamers.

I was referring to the Dark Troopers. Dew backs just seem silly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Derrault said:

I was referring to the Dark Troopers. Dew backs just seem silly. 

latest?cb=20120705095333

 

star wars rebels imperial security droids:

latest?cb=20161128222821

Edited by Geressen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

If this were a simulation attempting to recreate some sort of logical strategic contest then I would agree.

So you think there SHOULD only be one way to play an army list, and that only variations on one troop type IS good variety?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Before Disney, every Star Wars movie (except for The Phantom Menace for obvious reasons) introduced a new type of stormtrooper, they have just continued the trend.

I agree that Disney can't continue the trend past a certain point (same with TIE fighter variations) or it starts to feel less like a cohesive setting. It would be cool to see more callbacks to established trooper types, or see them in different contexts (i.e. the Rangetroopers could have just as easily been Snowtroopers wearing magboots) 

I disagree with that.  While yes, every OT/PT introduced a new type of "trooper," they were all filling in new roles, and creating a universe.
ANH: Stormtroopers and Sandtroopers (aka, the same guys, but in field appropriate gear)

ESB: Snowtroopers (same guys, but in field appropriate gear), AT-AT pilot

RotJ: Scouttroopers (for patrolling bases, and riding ridiculously fast flying dirt bikes; helmets shaped accordingly) AT-ST pilots (not really a trooper but I'll mention them later)

AotC: Clone troopers

RotS: Galactic Marines (elite/different branch), and Clone troopers in field appropriate gear)

In Disney's case, we've gotten a ton of overlap that didn't really exist in the prior movies.  Ignoring the ST movies for the same reason as why new troopers were acceptable in the PT, we have:

R1: Deathtroopers (elite troops), Shoretroopers (look cool, but should have been modified scout troopers), Vehicle crewman trooper (should have been a modified version of the AT-AT or AT-ST pilots

Solo: Mudtroopers/Imperial Army, (different branch) Mimban Stormtroopers (same old stormies in field appropriate gear), Patrol troopers (because we need to invent a trooper to do the same work as a Scout trooper, but as a cop?) Range trooper (because Disney loves their flat helmet design, and is shoehorning it into everything.  Should have been snowtroopers)

Besides the design inconsistency of going from the Phase II clone armor to Stormtrooper armor with now the entire generation of Deathtrooper/shoretrooper/rangetrooper/Vehicle crewman helmet designs shoved in, we have quite a bit of variation for guys doing the same **** thing during the same **** time.  What worse is that this trend will undoubtedly continue because it sells.  I'll admit I support this by collecting most of the new "trooper" units when their Black Series figures are released, but it certainly gets frustrating.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The vehicle crewman trooper actually makes sense in Rogue One; the guys we saw in Empire and Jedi were fully enclosed in the control cabins of the walkers. The occupier tank exposes the driver to fire, so it makes sense to put him into armor.  All that I would say on him is that I would have preferred if he used the same helmet design as the other drivers, with armor instead of a jumpsuit.  Kind of like General Veers wearing a standard uniform in the safety of a star destroyer, but adding armor and a helmet when going into battle on the ground.  Then again, maybe all of that gear was impractical and cumbersome for a guy in the position of driving an occupier tank...

I'm also good with the Deathtroopers.

On the other hand, yes, shoretroopers should have just been scouts in more sand-colored uniforms with a couple of adaptations to the environment.

The Rangetroopers and Patrol troopers of Solo I can understand- its ten years before the Original Trilogy, so those uniforms/armor could well be the predecessors to Snowtroopers and Scout Troopers. The stormtrooper we all know was clearly in service as of Solo, but we didn't see snowies or scouts in the movie, so it is plausible that they simply come later, and would eventually replace the similar trooper types we saw in the movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, MarekMandalore said:

The vehicle crewman trooper actually makes sense in Rogue One; the guys we saw in Empire and Jedi were fully enclosed in the control cabins of the walkers. The occupier tank exposes the driver to fire, so it makes sense to put him into armor.  All that I would say on him is that I would have preferred if he used the same helmet design as the other drivers, with armor instead of a jumpsuit.  Kind of like General Veers wearing a standard uniform in the safety of a star destroyer, but adding armor and a helmet when going into battle on the ground.  Then again, maybe all of that gear was impractical and cumbersome for a guy in the position of driving an occupier tank...

I'm also good with the Deathtroopers.

On the other hand, yes, shoretroopers should have just been scouts in more sand-colored uniforms with a couple of adaptations to the environment.

The Rangetroopers and Patrol troopers of Solo I can understand- its ten years before the Original Trilogy, so those uniforms/armor could well be the predecessors to Snowtroopers and Scout Troopers. The stormtrooper we all know was clearly in service as of Solo, but we didn't see snowies or scouts in the movie, so it is plausible that they simply come later, and would eventually replace the similar trooper types we saw in the movie.

Armoring the vehicle crewmen is fine, though the armor already existed in the form of the AT-AT or Veers armor.  Inventing new armor, along with slapping Disney's flat faced helmet on it, was unnecessary.  And the tank doesn't require the crew to be exposed to fight/operate, they just prefer to drive hanging out of their vehicles, much like WWII armor crews did.

The problem with the Range/Patrol troopers is that the Snowtroopers and Scout troopers already exist; we see both types of armor nearly identical to their OT counterparts in Episode III, and the Clone Wars confirms that these armor types were widely used.  Theoretically, the Imperial army could roll out an entirely new trooper armor type, realize it sucks, and go back to older armor that works.  If so, that's an unnecessary design detail for the movies to go with, and honestly doesn't fit the Imperial strategy of "it's ours, it sucks compares to what we had before, but we're sticking with it because.... Tarkin Doctrine, or something." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, the trooper issue was around a long time before Disney took over selling toys.  The old EU wasn't exactly restrained- shadow stormtroopers, storm commandos, tie crawlers... It's a big galaxy and almost anything could exist, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should. 

Comparatively, Disney are doing OK.

Or they've only just begun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Katarn said:

To be fair, the trooper issue was around a long time before Disney took over selling toys.  The old EU wasn't exactly restrained- shadow stormtroopers, storm commandos, tie crawlers... It's a big galaxy and almost anything could exist, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should. 

Comparatively, Disney are doing OK.

Or they've only just begun.

1

I can agree with that point, but I fear it is the latter rather than the former.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Katarn said:

To be fair, the trooper issue was around a long time before Disney took over selling toys.  The old EU wasn't exactly restrained- shadow stormtroopers, storm commandos, tie crawlers... It's a big galaxy and almost anything could exist, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should. 

Comparatively, Disney are doing OK.

Or they've only just begun.

The problem is the FFG approach to rulebooks and army lists. If you make hard and fast stat cards tied to specific uniforms... with enough new rules per unit to keep math people interested... either you have to leave out cool uniforms, or the rules get horribly bloated over time.

I really don't like how in the last few years, wargames have become all about who can best keep track of interlocking fields of purely abstract buffs and debuffs. There's also the purely abstract manipulation of order of operations that has become really important. These things were fun enough when they originated as a way to make things interesting but it's getting way out of hand.

Edited by TauntaunScout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

The problem is the FFG approach to rulebooks and army lists. If you make hard and fast stat cards tied to specific uniforms... with enough new rules per unit to keep math people interested... either you have to leave out cool uniforms, or the rules get horribly bloated over time.

I really don't like how in the last few years, wargames have become all about who can best keep track of interlocking fields of purely abstract buffs and debuffs. There's also the purely abstract manipulation of order of operations that has become really important. These things were fun enough when they originated as a way to make things interesting but it's getting way out of hand.

Then stop playing those games?

I have the opposite opinion on modern war games.  I love what FFG has done with X-wing (especially after the 2nd edition came out), Legion and Armada as far as mechanics and rules go.

Part of FFG's success is that they have made war gaming a lot more approachable and accessible to a wider swath of casual gamers.  I had never played miniature war games before I picked up an X-wing core set and now I'm spending hours every weekend building different table set ups for my fully painted Legion army.

Having different rules for different uniforms makes the units immediately distinct in their capabilities and as someone else said earlier their design philosophy is to capture the onscreen 'feel' of the unit rather than a simulationist set of rules (if that were the case I would agree that most troopers would have identical stats).

You can think of FFG with their tokens and reference cards and single design unit styles (and in Legion their non-sprue construction) as the iMac of miniature war gaming.  It's easy, straightforward and gets people interested in the hobby with a well known set of IP's.  Now that I've been playing their games for a few years I'm looking at branching out into other more esoteric war games.

The only gripe I have about a lot of miniatures games is that they are not leveraging apps more.  X-wing 2nd edition is great because they limited what things were on the reference cards so that more things could be adjusted via list building apps, making the game more adaptable and giving it a longer shelf life.  I wish that legion had adopted this approach, but they at least update and errata the online RRG frequently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×