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GeneralZod217

Tavson’s ability.

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Tavson’s ability states that after suffering damage you can spend a charge to perform and action.

Am I right in thinking that if one attacker causes two damage to Tavson then two charges can be spent to perform two different actions?

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12 minutes ago, GeneralZod217 said:

Tavson’s ability states that after suffering damage you can spend a charge to perform and action.

Am I right in thinking that if one attacker causes two damage to Tavson then two charges can be spent to perform two different actions?

Yes, Tavson can use his ability twice, as long as he has both charges:  One at a time (not simultaneously), after each individual damage is suffered (into either shields or hull), as long as he can perform actions (stress might disallow it).

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3 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

This doesn’t violate Once Per Opportunity?

Once per opportunity applies to the individual effect causing the opportunity.

Luke Skywalker's ability dictates "once per attack", not "once per damage".  It applies to each attack, as each attack is its own trigger.

Tavson's ability dictates "after you suffer damage".  It applies, RAW, to sustaining damage, and each damage is applied one a a time, and therefore has its own individual impact.

 

From the rules, "Once Per Opportunity" is referred to under similar circumstances.  "At the start of the Engagement phase" means when the Engagement Phase starts--not at the moment each ship Engages.  Similarly:  

Quote

As another example, if a ship has the ability “While you perform an attack, you may reroll 1 attack die,” it may resolve that ability once during each of its attacks.

Each attack is treated as its own separate event, just as each damage taken is treated as its own.  You'd have all sorts of problems if it was all treated as the same thing, and you have your own common place example of Fuel Leak, or Hull Breach.  You flip each critical hit as its own card, and suffer the effects--both of those critical states impact each new damage being applied to the ship as soon as it's drawn.

Edited by bydand
Grammar?

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19 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Yes, Tavson can use his ability twice, as long as he has both charges:  One at a time (not simultaneously), after each individual damage is suffered (into either shields or hull), as long as he can perform actions (stress might disallow it).

I'm into this... 

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1 hour ago, player3049613 said:

 

we were talking about this on the second page and it looks like we decided only one per attack.

I think you decided incorrectly. At the end of the day, damage is suffered one at a time, making each individual damage a potential trigger for Tavson's ability.

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My opponent was flying Tavson and said it was only one per attack. However I said I think it could be used for each individual damage, that’s why I posted it on here. To me it seems pretty clear, after rolling defence dice any remaining hits would allow a charge to be spent depending on how many charges are active. 

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As mentioned in the other thread the ability *might* happen during aftermath on the condition that at least 1 damage was suffered during the Deal Damage step. In this case Once Per Opportunity would apply.

BUT of course this could go both ways especially since damage cards are suffered one at a time during the Deal Damage step and between each damage card there are triggers that could occur (such as the effects from faceup damage cards).

I see Hate was brought in to clarify a little so it appears it would occur during Aftermath rather than after specifically suffering a number of damage.

Edited by eRADicator67

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23 hours ago, eRADicator67 said:

As mentioned in the other thread the ability *might* happen during aftermath on the condition that at least 1 damage was suffered during the Deal Damage step. In this case Once Per Opportunity would apply.

BUT of course this could go both ways especially since damage cards are suffered one at a time during the Deal Damage step and between each damage card there are triggers that could occur (such as the effects from faceup damage cards).

I see Hate was brought in to clarify a little so it appears it would occur during Aftermath rather than after specifically suffering a number of damage.

what is the basis of the assumption that tavson would trigger during the aftermath step?

this is what the RR says about aftermath:

6. Aftermath: Abilities that trigger after an attack are resolved in the following order.
a. Resolve any of the defending player’s abilities that trigger “after you defend,” excluding abilities that grant a bonus attack.
b. Resolve any of the attacking player’s abilities that trigger “after you perform an attack,” excluding abilities that grant a bonus attack.
c. Resolve any of the defending player’s abilities that trigger “after you defend” that grant a bonus attack.
d. Resolve any of the attacking player’s abilities that trigger “after you perform an attack” that grant a bonus attack.

tavson has none of those triggers. tavson says:

"After you suffer damage, you may spend 1 (charge) to perform an action."

this is what the RR says about the timing "after":

• After: The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified

if you read the part about damage, it's clearly stated that "When a ship suffers damage, that damage is suffered one at a time.", so RAW tavson definitely gets to opportunity to trigger his ability after every damage he suffers.

Hate is a completely different card - and as such, it's worded differently. it could be worded more like tavson, but it is not. i will agree that the section about damage in the RR could be changed, or tavson erratad in some way, so that he could only spend a charge and perform an action once every time he is dealt one or more damage, but since it hasn't been done as of right now, we should follow the rules as best we can.

this reminds me of zari bangel and flying over asteroids and bumping. RAW she should still not skip her perform action step after partially executing a maneuver, asteroid or not. i would rule against it, but it's not entirely clear. i would definitely rule tavson to trigger after each damage being suffered, though.

Edited by meffo

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So let's say my Tavson is down to its last hull. Takes one damage, dies. Can he still spend a charge to say Jam or Coordinate? 

I assume yes because he isn't officially dead until the end of the initiative, but I have been wrong before.

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2 hours ago, WadeSnaps said:

So let's say my Tavson is down to its last hull. Takes one damage, dies. Can he still spend a charge to say Jam or Coordinate? 

I assume yes because he isn't officially dead until the end of the initiative, but I have been wrong before.

Pretty much this.  If it happens in the combat phase, he'd have an opportunity to trigger.  I think, however, if it happened in some other phase, he wouldn't.  I don't believe there's a delay, like with simultaneous fire, in which for Tavson to use his ability.  Like if he died from bomb or mine damage, or hitting an Asteroid, or such.

*e* See below.

Edited by theBitterFig

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13 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

 I don't believe there's a delay, like with simultaneous fire, in which for Tavson to use his ability.  Like if he died from bomb or mine damage, or hitting an Asteroid, or such.

Is this right though? Even if Tavson took a damage from a bomb, that still satisfies the trigger and he took a damage. FFG has aired on the side of "all triggered abilities still resolve" it seems, so this to me feels like he'd still be able to coordinate or jam or something before being unceremoniously removed by a bomb.

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Just now, Juunon said:

Is this right though? Even if Tavson took a damage from a bomb, that still satisfies the trigger and he took a damage. FFG has aired on the side of "all triggered abilities still resolve" it seems, so this to me feels like he'd still be able to coordinate or jam or something before being unceremoniously removed by a bomb.

Yeah, I think I might have been wrong.

• If an effect triggers after a ship is destroyed, the effect resolves immediately before the ship is removed. (Destroying Ships, p. 9)

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I'd heard there was an officially FAQ ruling at one of the recent... System Opens (?) which ruled that Tavson can only use his ability once per time defending, no matter how much damage he took. Can anyone confirm? 

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2 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

I'd heard there was an officially FAQ ruling at one of the recent... System Opens (?) which ruled that Tavson can only use his ability once per time defending, no matter how much damage he took. Can anyone confirm? 

Event FAQs are different to offical FAQs, and should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

*reference the ruling about Tallon Roll earlier*

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3 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

I'd heard there was an officially FAQ ruling at one of the recent... System Opens (?) which ruled that Tavson can only use his ability once per time defending, no matter how much damage he took. Can anyone confirm? 

That doesn't make any sense at all.  Damage is always suffered one damage at a time, so there would be multiple potential triggers.

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13 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

That doesn't make any sense at all.  Damage is always suffered one damage at a time, so there would be multiple potential triggers.

Agreed! But still be good to see the ruling. Also had someone argue against it in Vassal. 

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I agree that RAW Tavson could trigger on each individual damage received. Unfortunately, the multiple of "damage" is also "damage" so I can also see how one might read that,

"After you suffer damage, you may spend 1 (charge) to perform an action."

indicates merely after an attack deals any amount of damage. On the card FFG neglected to use clarifying language either way such as "After you suffer a damage..." to indicate each damage being a trigger OR "After you suffer any damage..." to indicate one or more damage together being the trigger.

Just be prepared for the ruling to go either way if we get one, or argue forever if we don't.

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I found the one other card that uses the same wording as Tavson and has enough table time to use as precedence:

Card_Upgrade_136.png

And for precedence I have only seen Mail played as recovering a single Force charge per attack. I've never heard anyone argue that mail recovers more than one. That doesn't mean it's the correct or only Interpretation, just that it is a useable precedent.

(Of course picking up multiple stress is discouraging)

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If you suffer multiple damage, I believe you could gain as many stress as force charges you want to recover. But yes multiple stress is discouraging. And unless Maul is on a force user ship or paired with a force user crew, you have only one force charge to recover.

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