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Jeff Wilder

Outryder Cup ... wait, wut?

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Watching the YouTube playback of a streamed Outryder Cup game, the commentators said something to the effect that a team that submitted lists with U-wings and X-wings without their 0-point Configuration upgrades were not permitted to add those upgrades for competition.

Is this correct?  Is there more to the story?  What is the @#$%ed up reasoning?

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I think with all tournaments, well the ones I have been part of, you play the list as submitted, not as intended. Maybe it saves TO’s hassle later? No idea, but this isn’t a new thing. Happened with Guidance Chimps too in 1.0. No chimps in the list, no chimps in the game even though it was 0 points. 

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Who is responsible for submitting a list? The player

who is responsible for making sure their submitted list is accurate? The player

If you forget to write down your most basic upgrades, that’s really your own fault. Of course TOs have jurisdiction, so they made the call not to let these players adjust their list mid tournament. If it was round 1 early in the morning, I’d make them go back and fix their sheet. But if you come to me in round 4 asking, tough luck, you made it this far. (I would expect the same be done to me if it ever happens).

Edited by FlyingAnchors

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28 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Is there more to the story?

There’s always more to the story. From third hand info it sounded... complicated and this 'silly' thing may have been collateral damage.

As I am actually not in the know I won’t speculate. Somebody who actually knows is bound to swing by.

Edited by LagJanson

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While the ruling appears harsh due to the fact that those upgrades appear to be “no-brainers,” the problem becomes when that line becomes blurry. Even 0-point upgrades may have reasons you would not want to equip them. Then it would be up to the TO to judge whether or not something was “supposed” to be equipped. 

Ultimately, the tournament regulations say you must submit an accurate list, no exceptions. It ultimately is better to have clear-cut rules wherever possible than to put the burden on the TO. 

Which, by the way, means WE NEED SOME FREAKING FLOOR RULES FFG. 

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The last world champ was playing with a ion bomb on the wrong ship because his friend screwed up his list when submitting it and people let it slide. This was at the World Championship.

Someone being a stickler about missing a standard 0 pts. configuration and not allowing it?

The Dude said it best.

 

 

Edited by kris40k

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17 minutes ago, kris40k said:

The last world champ was playing with a ion bomb on the wrong ship because his friend screwed up his list when submitting it and people let it slide. This was at the World Championship.

Someone being a stickler about missing a standard 0 pts. configuration and not allowing it?

The Dude said it best.

 

 

“But he broke the rules and it was fine” is not a defense for breaking the rules yourself. 

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3 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

“But he broke the rules and it was fine” is not a defense for breaking the rules yourself. 

"If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law." ~ Henry David Thoreau

TO should have known better.

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6 minutes ago, kris40k said:

"If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law." ~ Henry David Thoreau

TO should have known better.

It is not up to a TO to think on what 300 people were thinking when they were making a list. Take some basic responsibility when you are making the list you want to fly. How hard can it be? 

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My understanding is that one team submitted an old list in error  and then was not allowed to update after the deadline and after all the other team captains conferred.

Later, the team with that submitted the old list pointed out that a few lists from other teams didn't include the configurations on their lists. Since the collective group ruled that the list couldn't be updated with the first team, they had to stand by their ruling of not updating ANYONE's even if that meant no configurations.

I want to say it was commented "on air" during the live stream of the event, but I'm not 100 percent certain.  I just remember shaking my head at the matter when I learned about it.

Edited by Force Majeure

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14 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

It is not up to a TO to think on what 300 people were thinking when they were making a list. Take some basic responsibility when you are making the list you want to fly. How hard can it be?

It is up to a TO to have common ******* sense and realize that when someone states that they meant to include the configuration card for a ship that costs 0 points that he's not trying to pull a fast one and allow it. TO's are the final decision maker, and should be capable of inference. Hard hard can it be?

 

hD3234327

 

Edited by kris40k

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51 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

My understanding is that one team submitted an old list in error  and then was not allowed to update after the deadline and after all the other team captains conferred.

This is an important point. As I understand it, the outrider cup (a team event) stipulated that unclear rulings would be voted on by all team captains. So this wasn't an example of an overzealous TO, but rather group consensus.

That being said, you could absolutely argue that a council of captains with a vested interest in the rulings is not an impartial body, but at least they were consistent.

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57 minutes ago, kris40k said:

It is up to a TO to have common ******* sense and realize that when someone states that they meant to include the configuration card for a ship that costs 0 points that he's not trying to pull a fast one and allow it. TO's are the final decision maker, and should be capable of inference. Hard hard can it be?

 

hD3234327

 

The TO’s have a **** tonne more to worry about whether you got your list right. From Scoring, complaints and judgments, noise etc etc.

Obviously for some people it is too hard. I could say I accidentally added a modification to give me an initiative advantage. If a TO says no adjustments to any list then that’s the rule to play under, regardless of how petty you think it is. 

It is up to a TO to judge, not have ******* common sense as you put it. It is up to the player to have common sense and get their list right.  

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2 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Watching the YouTube playback of a streamed Outryder Cup game, the commentators said something to the effect that a team that submitted lists with U-wings and X-wings without their 0-point Configuration upgrades were not permitted to add those upgrades for competition.

Is this correct?  Is there more to the story?  What is the @#$%ed up reasoning?

I completely agree with you Jeff. I tend to let mistakes (forgot to open/close, start of round triggers) slide, so would call this TO a lot of unfavorable things to his face if I saw him try to pull this on another player. Public shame and calling out on every forum would happen too. What an empathy-less, cold move for a fun, leisure activity. If you do not understand that people aren't perfect, accidents happen, and we're all here to have fun, then really I don't want you in the game. You're a blight; simple as that. 

I hope I never have the displeasure of meeting any of you people who are on team "tough luck/don't screw up". You are the great X-Wing community at its absolute worst. Go back to magic if you need to win at every single cost to feel complete in life.

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1 hour ago, Force Majeure said:

My understanding is that one team submitted an old list in error  and then was not allowed to update after the deadline and after all the other team captains conferred.

Later, the team with that submitted the old list pointed out that a few lists from other teams didn't include the configurations on their lists. Since the collective group ruled that the list couldn't be updated with the first team, they had to stand by their ruling of not updating ANYONE's even if that meant no configurations.

I want to say it was commented "on air" during the live stream of the event, but I'm not 100 percent certain.  I just remember shaking my head at the matter when I learned about it.

This is what happened, according to the vid. Basically, because team A wasn't able to change their incorrectly submitted list (all lists had to be submitted a week before the event), all other teams that had any inconsistency (configurations) also had to fly with the lists as submitted- this was agreed on by all team captains.

Personally, it seems kind of petty, but it is a very competitive tourney and I understand the mindset of those that had all their ducks in a row wanting to enforce the event rules. Pro tip- go over your list with a fine-tooth comb before it needs to be submitted/the days before a tournament and have someone else do so as well to make sure any kinks are worked out.

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11 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

I completely agree with you Jeff. I tend to let mistakes (forgot to open/close, start of round triggers) slide, so would call this TO a lot of unfavorable things to his face if I saw him try to pull this on another player. Public shame and calling out on every forum would happen too. What an empathy-less, cold move for a fun, leisure activity. If you do not understand that people aren't perfect, accidents happen, and we're all here to have fun, then really I don't want you in the game. You're a blight; simple as that. 

I hope I never have the displeasure of meeting any of you people who are on team "tough luck/don't screw up". You are the great X-Wing community at its absolute worst. Go back to magic if you need to win at every single cost to feel complete in life.

If this was a casual event, then letting it slide would have been fine. However, this was a competitive tournament featuring 9 teams each with 4-6 players who all played tournaments before and had agreed to the tournament rules. It wasn't simply a TO decision- each team captain agreed with the decision, which was consistent with the tournament rules that required all lists in a week before the event. So even the team(s) that were penalized agreed to the ruling.

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