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Fl1nt

Handling starting Gear when the Players start Imprisoned

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Man, half the country hasn't even faced the winter storm and people are already showing cabin fever.

Sometimes you've got to disappoint players who are using Saturday Morning Cartoon Logic, but often you don't have a good reason not to let action-adventure loops and simplifications take over.

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1 hour ago, Benjan Meruna said:

This is Star Wars, not Shadowrun.  ****, even in Shadowrun only the blackest of the black trenchcoats make their players recycles ALL of their equipment between runs. 

What a fanciful, care-free world you run, my friend!  But of course, that is your right.  Conversely, there's nothing wrong with having NPCs recall certain details about the scene, be that specific shoes, a certain type of blaster, or whatever that Threat or Despair dictates at the time it was rolled, and the context.  Still, I agree that Star Wars is generally more forgiving to nefarious criminals than a cyberpunk setting, but at the end of the day, it's all about what the group finds fun. 

 

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2 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Your point is an irrelevant tangent. Never said a GM couldn't run things how they want,  I pointed out how I run things and why that's completely reasonable. Anyone who whines about completely reasonable decisions of a GM are ridiculous. Has precisely zero to do with what you posted.

Welcome to eating less sugar, focusing and staying on topic.

Perhaps if your point that I’d replied to had included any mention of that perspective, rather than setting down apparent absolutes and calling anyone who disagrees or makes a simple counter-point “ridiculous,” it might have been clearer.

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Just now, Nytwyng said:

Perhaps if your point that I’d replied to had included any mention of that perspective, rather than setting down apparent absolutes and calling anyone who disagrees or makes a simple counter-point “ridiculous,” it might have been clearer.

It was a straight statement about how crimes are actually handled and anyone whiney about GMs making decisions that are reasonable are ridiculous, there wasn't anything absolute or unclear about the example or the approach to this sort of thing.  Whining about reasonable GM decisions regardless of specifics is always ridiculous. 

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3 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

It was a straight statement about how crimes are actually handled and anyone whiney about GMs making decisions that are reasonable are ridiculous, there wasn't anything absolute or unclear about the example or the approach to this sort of thing.  Whining about reasonable GM decisions regardless of specifics is always ridiculous. 

Who whined about anything?

Of course what you described is how crimes in our world are actually handled. No one said otherwise. The last time I checked, though, this game wasn’t set in our world.

Providing counter-points with examples from similarly-themed fiction in which real-world common sense is, shall we say, played with loosely (if at all) is merely participating in a discussion on the topic at hand, namely, how to handle gear in a prison break in this fictional setting.

I think you and I both agree that there’s not a one-size-fits-all answer to that question, particularly in the context of the setting. There’s no need to call civilly-stated ways of exploring that message “whining” or “ridiculous.”

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2 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Your reading comprehension appears to be poor. My first post specified it was a counter "outrage-gasm" and in the second I specify that it's the players's choice to burn gear rather than a "strong arm" tactic.

So basically, your first post was just a troll, then?  Because there wasn't an "outrage-gasm," just someone pointing out that your take didn't really fit with the space opera themes of Star Wars.  Which is fine, but don't act like someone pointing that out is a personal attack on you, or make strawmen posts that serve no purpose other than to mock someone for making a perfectly valid point.

Second, if you're racking up Obligation due them to not burning their gear every other session, then it's a strongarm tactic.  Saying "Hey, you don't have to burn your gear....but if you don't you're going to rack up a shitton of Obligation" is basically trying to force players to have to rebuy their equipment to keep them poor.

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1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:

Who whined about anything?

Of course what you described is how crimes in our world are actually handled. No one said otherwise. The last time I checked, though, this game wasn’t set in our world.

Providing counter-points with examples from similarly-themed fiction in which real-world common sense is, shall we say, played with loosely (if at all) is merely participating in a discussion on the topic at hand, namely, how to handle gear in a prison break in this fictional setting.

I think you and I both agree that there’s not a one-size-fits-all answer to that question, particularly in the context of the setting. There’s no need to call civilly-stated ways of exploring that message “whining” or “ridiculous.”

It's not set in the Marvel Universe the last time I checked as well. I already pointed out comparing Xandar which is a progressive represenative democracy and the Empire, which is not, is an extremely poorly thought out analogy. Similar themes doesn't make it relevant whatsoever, quite frankly your use of Xandar does  the exact opposite highlighting my point in the differences between the two systems of government and how they treat prisoners.

More to the point I wasn't even quoting/talking to you, I was quoting HD. 

Second point still stands, people who complain about GMs making reasonable decisions consistent with the applicable reality, fictional or not, are whining.

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I think it’s funny we’re even talking about Imperial prisons. 

According to the OT, those were individual rooms aboard Star Destroyers or the Death Star where they torture you for information until they decide you’re useless and then execute you. 

 

Edited by Flavorabledeez

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1 hour ago, Benjan Meruna said:

So basically, your first post was just a troll, then?  Because there wasn't an "outrage-gasm," just someone pointing out that your take didn't really fit with the space opera themes of Star Wars.  Which is fine, but don't act like someone pointing that out is a personal attack on you, or make strawmen posts that serve no purpose other than to mock someone for making a perfectly valid point.

Second, if you're racking up Obligation due them to not burning their gear every other session, then it's a strongarm tactic.  Saying "Hey, you don't have to burn your gear....but if you don't you're going to rack up a shitton of Obligation" is basically trying to force players to have to rebuy their equipment to keep them poor.

You should probably check into the Derek Zoolander Center For Children Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too because I never said that I'm giving them Obligation. They make the choice on taking Obligation, and they make the choice how to burn it. It's a narrative currency they control.

But I tire of you. Your inability to understand what's clearly written means I lose nothing from ignoring you. So you just go on being you (a BM).

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1 hour ago, HappyDaze said:

You should probably check into the Derek Zoolander Center For Children Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too because I never said that I'm giving them Obligation. They make the choice on taking Obligation, and they make the choice how to burn it. It's a narrative currency they control.

But I tire of you. Your inability to understand what's clearly written means I lose nothing from ignoring you. So you just go on being you (a BM).

That's funny, because you said:

19 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

In an Edge game, getting rid of gear used in a crime is a smart thing to do. Using the same kit over and over is a great boon to investigators trying to catch you.

Which would imply that you enforce some sort of negative consequences for players "using the same kit over and over".  Which then led to you then started talking about Obligation:

6 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Not at all. Burning gear can be a great way to shed (certain types of) Obligation. It's still the players choice, this just converts credits (for replacement gear) to buying off Obligation in a manner that fits the narrative.

But thanks for implying my GMing is the problem.

So, here: lay out exactly how you "give investigators a boon" in the game.

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Personally I'm the kind of player who operates on sigiture gear; or rather, I have so many guns that in the past I've actually needed a notebook to keep track of it all. Even after downsizing, I've still got about 12/14 different entries which could be classified as indulgent. I don't feel so as I don't actually have a sigiture set of gear; star wars never placed much weight on individual sets of gear or even lightsabers so that I have little problem with blasters being destroyed and such; as a professional assassin should always have tools to fit a situation.

As such, rather then giving them spends just having them obtain gear on the breakout/preparation for the break out would make things more rewarding. They literally started with nothing and built up the tools through ingenuity and the like as they went along and it's a good way to introduce them to the system in general. I will always remember my first fight scene as a one eyed ex-stormtrooper using an array of improvised weapons on a bunch of prisoners that wanted to appear tough; I imaging having to creatively scheme to engineer a way out of their imprisoned situation would be pretty **** cool.

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14 hours ago, 2P51 said:

It's not set in the Marvel Universe the last time I checked as well. I already pointed out comparing Xandar which is a progressive represenative democracy and the Empire, which is not, is an extremely poorly thought out analogy. Similar themes doesn't make it relevant whatsoever, quite frankly your use of Xandar does  the exact opposite highlighting my point in the differences between the two systems of government and how they treat prisoners.

Well, if we want to look at what we’ve seen of Imperial prison facilities on screen, it would seem Xandar is stricter. They at least put prisoners in uniforms. The Empire seems to keep people in their street clothes. 😏 That’s the only indication we have about how Imperial prison facilities work. In that context, there’s no standard to apply; there are no differences for you to highlight because we don’t know how the Empire handles such things. Hence the original question that launched the thread.

14 hours ago, 2P51 said:

More to the point I wasn't even quoting/talking to you, I was quoting HD. 

My apologies. I’ll request your kind permission before contributing to public discussions in the future.

 

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36 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Well, if we want to look at what we’ve seen of Imperial prison facilities on screen, it would seem Xandar is stricter. They at least put prisoners in uniforms. The Empire seems to keep people in their street clothes. 😏 That’s the only indication we have about how Imperial prison facilities work. In that context, there’s no standard to apply; there are no differences for you to highlight because we don’t know how the Empire handles such things. Hence the original question that launched the thread.

My apologies. I’ll request your kind permission before contributing to public discussions in the future.

 

You're right we don't know, so we use examples of real and fictional governments and then apply common sense given how they function, which is what I've done in every single post.  Whereas you've cited conflicting forms of government and no real world examples, then used the classic lame excuse and sign of bad/lazy writing of "whatever suits the story".

You can post whatever you like, but if you're gonna get butt after your poor analogies/contradictory examples are pointed out as such, as well as clearly condescending snotty comments like "Welcome to science-fantasy adventure. 😏", get thrown back in your face, I'm afraid you'll just have to jump a little higher and you'll get over it...

Edited by 2P51

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44 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

You're right we don't know, so we use examples of real and fictional governments and then apply common sense given how they function, which is what I've done in every single post.  Whereas you've cited conflicting forms of government and no real world examples, then used the classic lame excuse and sign of bad/lazy writing of "whatever suits the story".

Well, the real world examples were handily covered. Seriously. No snark. So I did exactly what you agree we do in situations like this: offered up fictional examples, as did others. Given what (little) we’ve seen of the Empire’s prison policies, you agree that we don’t know what sort of procedures they have in place for prisoners’ personal effects. Given the Empire’s nature, your real world examples aren’t out of the question; meanwhile, since they seem to let prisoners go about in civilian clothes, that at least cracks the door open to the Empire doing things differently. And in a property in which full sets of street clothes (including footwear) apparently can be worn under a form-fitting stormtrooper body glove, pan-galactic communications and travel are as fast or slow as suits the story, and the all-powerful evil ruling organization is as efficient or incompetent as our heroes require at any given moment, I’m not sure why suggesting that their process for storing prisoners’ personal effects is such a sticking point.

52 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

You can post whatever you like, but if you're gonna get butt after your poor analogies/contradictory examples are pointed out as such, as well as clearly condescending snotty comments like "Welcome to science-fantasy adventure. 😏", get thrown back in your face, I'm afraid you'll just have jump a little higher and you'll get over it...

Who’s butt hurt? Certainly not me. Honestly, I respect your contributions to pretty much every discussion I’ve seen, even when we may not agree. In point of fact, I wasn’t even trying to suggest your example was out of the question, but rather use it as a starting point to provide an alternative, just contrasting it with the elements in yours. The closing statement about science-fantasy adventure was never meant to be “snotty” or “condescending,” but rather just a light-hearted sign-off noting that such stories sometimes work just right to get the characters where and how they need to be. Looks like we both may have been a little less clear on some things than we could have been.

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This thread was pretty long so I didn't read everything, more sort of skimmed, (and skipped the hate) so I apologise if I miss something, now on with my $0.02.

This is a great idea, starting without equipment but then what's next? Love the idea of them 'collecting' their starting equipment. To expand on that, I wouldn't have the guards be Stormtroopers. They're too uniform, and every character with a Blaster Rifle by default carries around an E-11 which stands out like canine unmentionables. I'd suggest a grittier looking collection of guards, maybe even an assortment, "you took out the tired, dented-armour-wearing door guard and looted his A280, down the hall you took out the duty seargent equipped with the HL-27," etc. It would require more planning, and could of course go astray, but surely not too far.

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yup... I'd be inclined to start the game with - "you have no gear/credits other than a prison uniform, a toothbrush, and a bar of soap, but.... here's an extra 10 starting xp." Happy Lifeday.

A : I know which I would rather have as a starting character.

B : they asked for a prison break.

C a prison break is no fun if you have all of your usual stuff. 

Everything that a starting character needs is right there in the prison. You want weapons? Guards, Wardens - check. Tools? Maintenance rooms, Prison Manufacturing - check. Food? Cafeteria - check... 

See where I'm going here? 

And remember, in the immortal words of Rorschach, "I'm not locked in here with you... You're locked in here with ME!"

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Didn't read through the three pages, but... Guardians of the Galaxy? Kind of lazy, maybe, but simple and fun:

  • Let the PCs come up with starting equipment in normal fashion.
  • Allow them to retrieve their personal effects as part of the escape.
  • Maybe a particularly interesting/beloved item, like a walkman, will require a brief side adventure.

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On 1/16/2019 at 4:58 AM, Darzil said:

As the players are fully aware that they start imprisoned, then they won't be disappointed to lose it (or even need to choose it at all).

I'd suggest three options:

1. Just don't have any and don't worry about it. They'll (presumably) find enough to be going on with early, and it's only 500 Cr (they presumably won't spend extra obligation/duty/morality on Cr!).

2. Don't have any, but they gain access to their bank account with their credits at some point.

3. Let them pick starting equipment, and have them 'discover' it during session one (and trust that they players meta-game to start with what they would have picked - rather than things others picked).

Personally I'd go with option 1.

4. Give out 5xp in lieu of the starting equipment.  A pacifier to those who may feel shorted, but also a 'fair' trade-off since you can spend 5xp for credits at creation.  Why not run it backwards? 

5. Their equipment is all prison stuff. Mining equipment, heavy clothing for the cold, backpack, utility belt, fusion cutter, axes, picks, etc... 

100% agree that the Empire isn't going to keep your stuff for you.  I mean, do they ever intend for you to get out???  Nah....

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Thanks for all the feedback 😃

 

Yeah I'll likely give my players 5-10xp extra to start with.

There is absolutely no chance of them getting their equipment stored when they get imprisoned and then shipped of to a mining guild planet for forced labour xD

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