New vehicles!

[Tirion 2,223]

16 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

What in sam **** is a puma?

Note to self, paint the commander red

Stop makin up mythical animals!

[Animewarsdude 3,639]

3 hours ago, Jedirev said:

No, you're not! 😆

The design is thoroughly impractical.  It's infuriating to treadhead tank enthusiasts, because the R1 production built it around the CVR(t) light tank family (Stormer iirc).  The low slung weapon and the sponsons are bonkers.  The vents you identify are where the engine block is located, but in the R1 Ultimate Visual Guide, this is the location of the gunner.  (In the real world the frontal engine block provides a measure of added protection for the crew!)

It's just an odd design - but in their defence, originally the production had planned for it to be a hover vehicle.  That was impractical from an effects perspective, and it became a tracked vehicle. 

None of which will stop me fielding one. 😀😉

Considering that it was fielded as a hovertank in Rebels I wonder if the mold will have it so you could run it without the treads to represent that. It won't change its stats but might give people a choice. 

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

To be fair, at that time it was also determined that the tank would be too big for current basing. With the introduction of this new oval base, any vehicles between 7-8 meters in canon length are possible. The occupier's canon length is 7.3 meters, meaning it should be almost as long as the AT-ST model is tall. 

The LAAT's canon length is 28 meters. I can find no references to smaller craft. 

I'm hoping that with this new base we might see the Rebels get the T2-B tank at somepoint, it would likely be their hardiest option though at least would have a 360 degree turret to keep its targets in arc. The new base size was also likely needed for the Republic and CIS's heavy options which will likely end up being the TX-130 Saber Tank which is 8 meters and the AAT which is 9 meters.

As for the LAAT the 28 meters is the size of the one carrying AT-TE's into battle I think considering its Legends number, and the one still used on the official databank, is 17 to 18 meters. Still likely a bit too big for this game but not as much of a monster as the 28 meter one. 

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

The GOCAT is really cool, but it's going to be terrain dependent in regards to LOS. It looks to be 1.5X the height of the stormtrooper. Maybe 2X. Not to mention the narrow front arc and crazy long side arcs, re-positioning this thing to use it's main guns will be a pain.

What I found with the T-47 and AT-ST, is terrain creates lanes you are essentially forced to move along. There is no difference with the GOCAT. It's effectiveness will be entirely dependent on it's starting position because it can't move quickly (speed 1) nor can it shoot "down" onto other minis over terrain. I can imagine it will be a nightmare to make a 90 degree turn at speed 1 as you swing that base around. It is intimidating on paper, but I wonder how much it will contribute to the fight if it can't move through/around terrain. 

Contrast this to the X-34 which is speed 2, has speeder, a smaller base, and is half the cost. The X-34 will be reliant on it's upgrades to be combat effective, but I really like the plug n play concept.

Personally, I think both are well balanced and thematic. 

I sort of see the tank as well a bigger and heavier E-Web of sorts, its a bit of an area denial tool that has the ability to move and attack. The Open Transport just gives it more options to either advance a unit with protect if you so desire. The X-34 comes off a hit and run vehicle if you build it that way or a way to quickly transport a commander or operative to where you need them on the battlefield. 

[Alpha17 2,853]

2 hours ago, BRPort said:

Well I like to play Rebels, but if I understood it right, you suggest that that shouldn't matter too much. You suggested to Czym to try other games if he didn't like how things are going. I disagree and I shouldn't have to change to other faction to have a fair game

I suggested that he should try another game if he felt a hot rod should be able to take on a tank head-to-head.  I stand by that statement.  No one is saying you have to change faction to have a fair game, only that the game is changing.  While the Rebels MAY be at a disadvantage now, that could easily change with how the CW stuff operates.  For instance, Hailfire droids could make big, slow vehicles like this death traps, while nimble vehicles like the X-34 are kings.  We don't know what the future holds.  ****, rather than rant about the unfairness of the situation, why not simply wait for it to be released, so we can see exactly how everything meshes together?  As others have said, the Rebels have a lot more options than you're giving them credit for. 

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:

You know people saying the Rebels will struggle to do damage to the tank. It's like the Rebels don't have 2 support options with high impact. 

Firstly, what do you consider "high impact?" The 1.4 FD, in addition to the inability to move after deployment, only gets Impact 3 (on the front or rear arc of course) after exhausting a card. The tank still (on average) will be saving half of all hits that get past Armor. Against another Empire list, there's lots of (good) sources of Impact, putting them in a better situation to plink the tank down in the first few turns. When facing a Rebel list with limited good Impact options the Empire player can better focus their efforts on removing the main threats to the tank with DLT/HH-12 Stormtroopers 

 

1 hour ago, NeonWolf said:

Or access to Impact Grenades...

Which if you let your opponent get in range 1 of the tank with Impact grenades you deserve to have it destroyed. Any accompanying infantry should target that unit first, at the very least to keep it suppressed. Plus if the tank is transporting a Snowtrooper unit with flamer, approaching the tank with infantry is a good way to have an infantry unit disappear, depending on how transport/disembarking works.

 

1 hour ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Right? Two AT-RT laser cannons have been a must have in every list of mine since the game launched just in case of armor. With more armor being put in the game, they will be able to justify themselves even more on my lists

I am thinking that at least some of my fire chickens will need to convert to sniper chickens, it would be more useful for the AT-RT mirror match... Which I haven't encounter super frequently to be honest. 

 

I'm not trying to say the tank will be unbalanced or super effective, just that Rebel players are likely to have a harder time destroying it than an Empire player, much like the AT-ST. Regardless, I'm likely to end up switching to primarily playing either GAR or CIS once those release anyway, so it's only a short term "problem" I'm likely to have the table regardless (in the sense of "tactical puzzle"). And even then, that's dependant on my opponents choosing to field the tank rather than Palpatine, some other big, nasty threat, or infantry "spam."

18 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

It's effectiveness will be entirely dependent on it's starting position because it can't move quickly (speed 1) nor can it shoot "down" onto other minis over terrain. I can imagine it will be a nightmare to make a 90 degree turn at speed 1 as you swing that base around. It is intimidating on paper, but I wonder how much it will contribute to the fight if it can't move through/around terrain.

I agree, but provided that Speed 1 is still from front to back (which it SHOULD be), then assuming the base is around twice the length of the diameter of the 70mm (I computed the length to be around 140mm in scale), Speed 1 would be around 8.5 inches.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Caimheul1313

[thepopemobile100 977]

19 minutes ago, Tirion said:

If it doesn't work with compulsory then why would it say lower speed?

I only said that I didn't know if it worked with compulsory or not. I reread it this morning and it only says when performing a move which leads me to believe that it would probably work with the compulsory. If the rocket launcher is also exhaustible, I could see using that pilot as well to keep me at range since I'm gonna be using my other action to reload the rocket

[BRPort 8]

2 hours ago, Gorthaur25 said:

Hey you brought up the Snow Troopers. My original point was that the tank will have line of sight issues compared to the heavies we currently have in the game and that point stands.

I like to play rebels too and I win with them as well. Against Imperials. What data do you have to show that imperials are more powerful than rebels? If Scouts are more powerful than Commandos then aren't Fleet Trooper more powerful than Snow Troopers?

You keep talking about how hard the tank is to kill and sure it is. But it can't score most objectives and also isn't that scary from an armament perspective. I would be more worried about a unit of bikes than this thing if it is empty. If it is carrying a unit than you double dip on wounds you deal which makes it worth shooting at.

Well if that was your point, it wasn't clear for me. My point still stands, the tank is a heavy that has similar chance to hit as any ground troop (remember it has a free turn and can have the secondary 360 gun). You'll have to protect your troops the same as against any other rival troop. So I dont agree that line of sight is a significant demeanor for the tank. Not against the Rebels which the discussion was about. If you are facing a ATST well then all units are in disadvantage as the Rebels only have the Air speeder. I dont have to show you anything, ok. We all have our experiences and I hope we respect each others. The point I make is that the balance of this game comes through points/ powers. More power more expensive and vice versa. I have experienced that the Imps points are worthy while the rebels powers are becoming expensive. This can throw the game into unbalanced.

[OccasionallyCorrect 347]

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

I sort of see the tank as well a bigger and heavier E-Web of sorts, its a bit of an area denial tool that has the ability to move and attack. The Open Transport just gives it more options to either advance a unit with protect if you so desire. The X-34 comes off a hit and run vehicle if you build it that way or a way to quickly transport a commander or operative to where you need them on the battlefield. 

I can see the E-Web comparison, but that base has to be at least as long as a distance two tool.  With a single speed one move I'll bet this bad boy covers the same distance as a speed 3 move or better. 

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

7 minutes ago, OccasionallyCorrect said:

I can see the E-Web comparison, but that base has to be at least as long as a distance two tool.  With a single speed one move I'll bet this bad boy covers the same distance as a speed 3 move or better. 

Following table is in inches, based on measurements found elsewhere in the forums of the movement tools.

Base size:               Speed 1| Speed 2 | Speed 3

27mm (Infantry):   4.06 | 6.16 | 8.36

50mm (Medium):  4.97 | 7.07 | 9.27

70mm (Large):      5.76 | 7.86 | 10.06

100mm (Huge):    6.94 | 9.04 | 11.24

By my math, the 7.30 meter length of the Occupier tank translates roughly to 144mm in scale, so Speed 1 should be around 8.5 inches as I posted above.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Caimheul1313

[BRPort 8]

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

I suggested that he should try another game if he felt a hot rod should be able to take on a tank head-to-head.  I stand by that statement.  No one is saying you have to change faction to have a fair game, only that the game is changing.  While the Rebels MAY be at a disadvantage now, that could easily change with how the CW stuff operates.  For instance, Hailfire droids could make big, slow vehicles like this death traps, while nimble vehicles like the X-34 are kings.  We don't know what the future holds.  ****, rather than rant about the unfairness of the situation, why not simply wait for it to be released, so we can see exactly how everything meshes together?  As others have said, the Rebels have a lot more options than you're giving them credit for. 

Really I am ranting, because I agree with some but not all your opinions, I am ranting?

Edited January 15, 2019 by BRPort

[UnitOmega 2,818]

Actually, depending on clarification of the keyword, an E-WEB is technically a "trooper". Based on just reminder text, it's entirely possible you can throw one in the flatbed and haul it around. Maybe only in Transport as opposed to Light Transport?

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

Just now, UnitOmega said:

Actually, depending on clarification of the keyword, an E-WEB is technically a "trooper". Based on just reminder text, it's entirely possible you can throw one in the flatbed and haul it around. Maybe only in Transport as opposed to Light Transport?

Maybe? We also still don't know how the transported unit will be able to interact with the battlefield, if at all, and how dismounting/mounting works. It is possible that dismounting will take the whole turn, and possible that transported units will not be able to fire/issue orders/repair the transport/provide a panic prevention bubble. We'll have to wait for the next RRG update to answer many of these questions. 

[Katarn 317]

While I was expecting vehicles, I wasn't expecting another repulsor vehicle for the rebels.  As it stands a rebel repair droid's only purpose (though not a terrible one) is to help out AT-RTs.

I like the idea that a speeder driver doesn't even slow down for his passenger to disembark. A 'we brake for nobody' bumper sticker is needed.

[bfisch1983 0]

Since you check true line of sight from the center of the attacking unit leader mini, could the back of the tank be sticking out from behind a building giving a trooper line of sight to the tank but not the other way around?

[Zrob314 833]

3 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

To be fair, at that time it was also determined that the tank would be too big for current basing. With the introduction of this new oval base, any vehicles between 7-8 meters in canon length are possible. The occupier's canon length is 7.3 meters, meaning it should be almost as long as the AT-ST model is tall. 

The LAAT's canon length is 28 meters. I can find no references to smaller craft. 

https://www.starwars.com/databank/republic-attack-gunship

17.69 Meters long

Now A Bell UH-1 Iroquois is 17.37 Meters long and the Iroquois the inspiration for the LAAT

https://www.starwars.com/databank/at-te-walker

22.02 Meters Long

So those are official sizes and we see LAAT type vehicles carrying Republic Walkers in AotC, so we must assume there is a Sikorsky CH-54 Tarhe type gunship and with that it's not too hard to imagine a Boeing CH-47 Chinook type gunship.  

The LAAT is the smallest thing (other than an AT-PT) for the Republic to use and it's so incredibly iconic to the clone wars it would be a shame if they couldn't get it on the table.  

[That Blasted Samophlange 6,923]

So... just HOW many Cathar serve the Empire?   Because this is all I see since the GOCAT appellation.

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

29 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

https://www.starwars.com/databank/republic-attack-gunship

17.69 Meters long

Now A Bell UH-1 Iroquois is 17.37 Meters long and the Iroquois the inspiration for the LAAT

https://www.starwars.com/databank/at-te-walker

22.02 Meters Long

So those are official sizes and we see LAAT type vehicles carrying Republic Walkers in AotC, so we must assume there is a Sikorsky CH-54 Tarhe type gunship and with that it's not too hard to imagine a Boeing CH-47 Chinook type gunship.  

The LAAT is the smallest thing (other than an AT-PT) for the Republic to use and it's so incredibly iconic to the clone wars it would be a shame if they couldn't get it on the table.  

I typically reference Wookiepedia, since it compiles the various sources, provides references, and allows for quick reference to "Legends." The measurements for the LAAT/I on Wookiepedia are from the April 3, 2018 canon reference publication Star Wars Encyclopedia of Starfighters and Other Vehicles. 

The other ship you reference is the LAAT/c, which while it does not have a listed size, I believe is shown in media to be roughly the same size as the LAAT/I, the only real difference being replacing the troop transport section with mag clamps to transport the AT-TE. I can't find a good reference photo off hand. 

Your cited article has a publish date of June 16, 2014 according to the page source. I THINK the newer canon publication takes precedence? It's hard to keep track with this stuff...

Edited January 15, 2019 by Caimheul1313

[Fistofriles 126]

19 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

X-34 Landspeeder

75 pt Heavy

Armor 2: While defending, cancel up to 2 hits

Arsenal 3

Cover 1

Limit Transport 1: Open- You may transport 1 friendly trooper unit that consists of exactly 1 mini. After defending, if you suffered 1 or more wounds, each unit you are transporting suffers 1 would.

Speeder 1: While moving, ignore terrain height 1 or less. When you activate, perform a compulsory move.

Can't make out any of the other cards, except that the rocket is impact 2 and that the front pilot allows you to increase or decrease your speed by 1. I don't think that'll work with the compulsory and I don't think that it's worth the 5 points

it has work with compulsory or there no point to decrease the speed as it only on compulsory that you have to go the full template

[Chili-52 198]

33 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

So... just HOW many Cathar serve the Empire?   Because this is all I see since the GOCAT appellation.

Well, both are tracked vehicles and opened top soooooooo I guess my drivers callsign will be "Panthro"!!!

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Chili-52

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

2 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

No one is saying you have to change faction to have a fair game, only that the game is changing. 

Yeah. Worrying about balance between factions with this level of granularity between releases reminds me of that person in the RPG campaign who tries to figure out "which class is best" and worry about which skills are "a waste of XP". It is not zen.

Other than being psyched about the retro-rebel vehicle, I am just hopeful for what else we'll see on that looooong base. Maybe a bantha or something.

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by TauntaunScout

[ResoluteHusky 62]

I'm surprised everyone is talking about how OP the tank seems to be but almost nobody ever mention the fact that the the speeder can literally do a drive-by with a rocket launcher. How crazy is that?!  

 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

2 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I agree, but provided that Speed 1 is still from front to back (which it SHOULD be), then assuming the base is around twice the length of the diameter of the 70mm (I computed the length to be around 140mm in scale), Speed 1 would be around 8.5 inches.

For sure, it can move quick in a straight line. But turning, even with the free pivot, is going to be difficult if you play correctly with 25% terrain coverage with range 1 between each piece. I also wonder how it interacts with barricades. Can it move over them? Land on them?

[UnitOmega 2,818]

The extended base should allay some concerns about CW vehicles. AATs, Hailfires, TX-130 tanks, etc, should all be possible with some maneuvering. Though the Hailfire's wheels are probably a bit awkward still.

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Can it move over them? Land on them?

Consulting the RRG, Ground Vehicles treat barricades and trenches as Open terrain, so they can clear them. 

[Animewarsdude 3,639]

1 hour ago, Katarn said:

While I was expecting vehicles, I wasn't expecting another repulsor vehicle for the rebels.  As it stands a rebel repair droid's only purpose (though not a terrible one) is to help out AT-RTs.

I like the idea that a speeder driver doesn't even slow down for his passenger to disembark. A 'we brake for nobody' bumper sticker is needed.

Maybe they will expand Repair to be Ground Vehicles and Repulsor Vehicles with Speeder 1?  Most of the Rebel vehicles seem to generally be Repulsor ones, as far as their tanks go, so I could see that change. It would also mean that Repair would likely not be overly useful for the two new factions since their main tank/vehicles are repulsor too, AAT and Saber Tank. 

[OccasionallyCorrect 347]

15 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

The extended base should allay some concerns about CW vehicles. AATs, Hailfires, TX-130 tanks, etc, should all be possible with some maneuvering. Though the Hailfire's wheels are probably a bit awkward still.

Consulting the RRG, Ground Vehicles treat barricades and trenches as Open terrain, so they can clear them. 

Really?  Man, I've been treating barricades as difficult terrain for my ATRTs.

[UnitOmega 2,818]