New vehicles!

[crx3800 268]

20 minutes ago, Copes said:

Hey!

I haven't read the full thread yet, but wondering if you can add the new Imperial Pilot as an option for the ATST.

It appears you can, as the only requirements appear to be "Ground Vehicle" and "Imperial only" 

[Copes 225]

8 minutes ago, crx3800 said:

It appears you can, as the only requirements appear to be "Ground Vehicle" and "Imperial only" 

Thanks haha. I meant as an upgrade for listbuilding when assembling lists in Tabletop Admiral.

[Geressen 824]

7 hours ago, Docgimmethenews said:

No, it's a reference to Red Vs. Blue

I think I get it.

so you're a gay robot...

[buckero0 1,956]

Yes there are 1 named pilot and 1 generic pilot with each set and they are both compatible with the other vehicles in the game. You can also put wedge on the speeder, etc.

Really need to see what the full rules are. Fully loaded speeder is going to be 120pts at least. The ax300 rifle will be cheap. The tank buster rocket launcher is probably a worse version of the hh12 that the Stormtroopers use. Ie it's going to have exhaust and probably impact2, two black Dice and a white die. The only Advantage as is that you can shoot 360. The ion gun will be fixed front only and it's probably going to be close to 30 points depending on if you exhaust or not

[Gorthaur25 130]

11 hours ago, Squark said:

Given that you can always use a lower speed template when performing normal moves, there's no reason for Ryder to allow you to decrease speed unless he works on compulsory moves. Still not sure that's worth 5 points and exhaust, though.

Not strictly true. You don't have to move the full length of the template on a move action but you cannot use a lower speed template. Ryder will let you make tighter turns with the smaller templates, not just reduce the distance that you fly.

That said I also think he will let you change compulsory moves otherwise I am not sure he is worth the points.

[Gorthaur25 130]

12 hours ago, BRPort said:

Honestly I think thats a wishful thought. Thats the same to say the snowies are not that good because they arent tall enough to see over the terrain (or any troops(.  Regarding the points what the rebels get you can have two for the same cost with white defense dye and a total of 4 white attack dice. Movement wont be such a problem because the length of the tank (it'll be almost or a move 2). The weak point? well when you manage to get hits through your slimmer chances you'll take an action away. I still cant see something to counter it. All suggestions consider that almost the whole rebel army will have to prepped to counter it leaving the rest of the Imps to have fun. Its a real great weapon worth every single point of it. 

This is pretty apples and oranges. Snow troopers don't have a range 4 fixed front weapon and they will tend to benefit from cover. The AT-ST can easily see over most terrain that isn't multistory building sized. Plus it doesn't have a big tail hanging out there getting shot.

I don't know what rebel unit you are comparing the tank to but a similarly costed 2 AT-RTs with laser cannons will have their way with this thing.

[Katarn 317]

Am I the only one who thinks the tank looks entirely impractical? The main cannons seem to have no horizontal traverse and the vents that cover a good amount of the forward armour are a potential weakness. 

The underslung cannons at knee height seem particularly silly though- it can't fire over cover and it would be bouncing the barrels off all kinds of debris.  Also, looking at it, they have no vertical traverse so they can only shoot  the enemy at knee height.  People love their kneecaps though so maybe that's why it has the suppressive key word. 

I think it could look quite good with raised sides to protect the squad as opposed carrying them on a flatbed.    

[Alpha17 2,853]

8 hours ago, Commander Czym said:

So does FFG just want empire players? That tank is way overpowered for the size of the battles now. Not to mention when you add Veers to it. BROKEN! I thought the balance in the game was that empire was more expensive, thereby having fewer models. But some of these min/max lists out there are way OP. The only real counter to the empire is the empire. This tank costs less than the snowspeeder, has better defense dice and more health. 

As for the land speeder, it looks good in the spirit of the game. But, I can guess how armor 2 works. After the hits, remove one for cover and maybe a dodge. Then modify for impact, so for most imperial attacks that is 1 to 3. Then remove two remaining hits, if any. All remaining hits are added to the crit pile for saves.  An ATST could one shot it at range 3.

My hopes are that this is just a preview and that the cards/stats will change before they come out. It has happened before.

So, you're saying that it's unfair that the military might of a Galactic Empire isn't equaled by the forces mustered by a stateless insurgent group?  These releases are incredibly thematic.  Yes, unit for unit, the Empire is better, but the Rebels are almost always more agile, mobile, and easier to play.  Will a landspeeder technical beat an Occupier tank head to head?  Of course not, but if you think it should, you should try a different game.  The weaknesses of the Occupier have been laid out repeatedly.  Relatively slow, weak sides, fixed front weapons, big mini.  Best strategy is to use terrain, draw it into a narrow street or other obstruction, and hit it from the sides.  Or distract it with infantry, while your AT-RTs, Airspeeders, and now technicals race around to the flanks.  Will that always work?  Again, of course not, but it's what armies have always tried in situations like this.

 

And everyone should remember that with the Clone Wars stuff showing up (eventually) this unit's reign as the most "OP" unit will likely be short.  It might be great against Rebels, but I bet CIS and GAR units will eat it's lunch.  Balance now isn't just between the Empire and Rebellion, but between all four eventual factions. 

4 minutes ago, Katarn said:

Am I the only one who thinks the tank looks entirely impractical? The main cannons seem to have no horizontal traverse and the vents that cover a good amount of the forward armour are a potential weakness. 

The underslung cannons at knee height seem particularly silly though- it can't fire over cover and it would be bouncing the barrels off all kinds of debris.  Also, looking at it, they have no vertical traverse so they can only shoot  the enemy at knee height.  People love their kneecaps though so maybe that's why it has the suppressive key word. 

I think it could look quite good with raised sides to protect the squad as opposed carrying them on a flatbed.    

While I agree that raised sides would look better, that's the flaw of using the movie's design, where it was being used as an armored cargo transport.  In the film, I thought we saw that the main cannons do have a small amount of horizontal traverse, but I guess we don't.  The tusk cannons are silly, but I guess they'd be decent at clearing a path through any roadblocks or crowds.  

Still though, it's cool that they build the movie prop off an actual armored vehicle, hence the tracks. 

[Jedirev 344]

8 minutes ago, Katarn said:

Am I the only one who thinks the tank looks entirely impractical? The main cannons seem to have no horizontal traverse and the vents that cover a good amount of the forward armour are a potential weakness. 

The underslung cannons at knee height seem particularly silly though- it can't fire over cover and it would be bouncing the barrels off all kinds of debris.  Also, looking at it, they have no vertical traverse so they can only shoot  the enemy at knee height.  People love their kneecaps though so maybe that's why it has the suppressive key word. 

I think it could look quite good with raised sides to protect the squad as opposed carrying them on a flatbed.    

No, you're not! 😆

The design is thoroughly impractical.  It's infuriating to treadhead tank enthusiasts, because the R1 production built it around the CVR(t) light tank family (Stormer iirc).  The low slung weapon and the sponsons are bonkers.  The vents you identify are where the engine block is located, but in the R1 Ultimate Visual Guide, this is the location of the gunner.  (In the real world the frontal engine block provides a measure of added protection for the crew!)

It's just an odd design - but in their defence, originally the production had planned for it to be a hover vehicle.  That was impractical from an effects perspective, and it became a tracked vehicle. 

None of which will stop me fielding one. 😀😉

[BRPort 8]

1 hour ago, Gorthaur25 said:

This is pretty apples and oranges. Snow troopers don't have a range 4 fixed front weapon and they will tend to benefit from cover. The AT-ST can easily see over most terrain that isn't multistory building sized. Plus it doesn't have a big tail hanging out there getting shot.

I don't know what rebel unit you are comparing the tank to but a similarly costed 2 AT-RTs with laser cannons will have their way with this thing.

I'm not talking about the AT-ST just the tank. Regarding the AT-Rt's take 16 crits be easy thing to do, we will have to see on the game tables.

[NeonWolf 942]

 

1 hour ago, Gorthaur25 said:

Not strictly true. You don't have to move the full length of the template on a move action but you cannot use a lower speed template. Ryder will let you make tighter turns with the smaller templates, not just reduce the distance that you fly.

That said I also think he will let you change compulsory moves otherwise I am not sure he is worth the points.

The only time you cannot use a slower speed template is on a Compulsory Move. With the wording on the Rebel pilot stating you can increase or decrease your speed by 1 during a "Move" and not a Move Action it may allow you to use a lower speed template on a Compulsory Move. Totally worth 5 points in that case.

3 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

- decreased mobility - no compulsory moves, speed 1 vs 3 templates, etc. this thing has to plod along and is terrain dependent

So let's talk about this things maneuverability in relation to the rules and the tables that a lot of people seem to like to play on. We have to make some assumptions about the size of the actual base (whether it is a Large (AT-RT) or a Huge (T-47) size that has been stretched).

1. This thing does not have Expert Climber and is rather short, so may have some serious issues changing elevations. Not to mention that with the current rules it's base cannot hang over the edge of any terrain.

2. It can only use a Speed 1 template and must travel along the length of the template when moving. This means it is going to be tough to maneuver in any kind of "urban" terrain. Sure, it gets a free pivot but it has to have enough space to swing that base in a circle to be able to do that.

[BRPort 8]

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

So, you're saying that it's unfair that the military might of a Galactic Empire isn't equaled by the forces mustered by a stateless insurgent group?  These releases are incredibly thematic.  Yes, unit for unit, the Empire is better, but the Rebels are almost always more agile, mobile, and easier to play. 

I agree that the Imps were way more powerful. I also agree that this game is thematic. Thats the thing, the Rebels faced the Imps because of the huge numbers and fast logistics which spread the Imps resources thin thats how they were beaten PLUS the better fighters in space (another game). What makes me agree with Commander Czym is that recently FFG has released Imp troopers more powerful for same cost of Rebels (eg scouts x commandos) and the rebel troops not worth their cost (eg. Air speeder and maybe this land speeder).

 

Will a landspeeder technical beat an Occupier tank head to head?  Of course not,...

I agree the One versus one It shouldn't. Regarding  the games system, with terrain. etc 155 points versus 2 x 75 it should. We'll have to see it on the tables but for now, on the paper, I'dont see 2 land speeders taking on 1 tank.

 

 The weaknesses of the Occupier have been laid out repeatedly.  Relatively slow, weak sides, fixed front weapons, big mini.  Best strategy is to use terrain, draw it into a narrow street or other obstruction, and hit it from the sides.  Or distract it with infantry, while your AT-RTs, Airspeeders, and now technicals race around to the flanks.  Will that always work?  Again, of course not, but it's what armies have always tried in situations like this.

Slow is REALLY relative. Fixed front weapons maybe the only significant weakness even though it seems to have a free pivot. For the weak side and your suggested tactics all good but in all cases they will have to get 16 crits to stop the beast. (Armor + red dice).

 

And everyone should remember that with the Clone Wars stuff showing up (eventually) this unit's reign as the most "OP" unit will likely be short.  It might be great against Rebels, but I bet CIS and GAR units will eat it's lunch.  Balance now isn't just between the Empire and Rebellion, but between all four eventual factions. 

Well I like to play Rebels, but if I understood it right, you suggest that that shouldn't matter too much. You suggested to Czym to try other games if he didn't like how things are going. I disagree and I shouldn't have to change to other faction to have a fair game.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by BRPort

[Zrob314 833]

21 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Not sure if that would be too big of a model (like the AT-AT).

Not at all.  The hauler would be too big, but the regular gunship would not.  There was a whole discussion about this some months ago.  

There's widely varying details on how big a gunship is.   The ones you see on screen both on Geonosis and on Coruscant...the ones that carry people around are much smaller than the ones that drop of AT-TEs.  

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

7 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Not at all.  The hauler would be too big, but the regular gunship would not.  There was a whole discussion about this some months ago.  

There's widely varying details on how big a gunship is.   The ones you see on screen both on Geonosis and on Coruscant...the ones that carry people around are much smaller than the ones that drop of AT-TEs.  

To be fair, at that time it was also determined that the tank would be too big for current basing. With the introduction of this new oval base, any vehicles between 7-8 meters in canon length are possible. The occupier's canon length is 7.3 meters, meaning it should be almost as long as the AT-ST model is tall. 

The LAAT's canon length is 28 meters. I can find no references to smaller craft. 

[Gorthaur25 130]

1 hour ago, BRPort said:

I'm not talking about the AT-ST just the tank. Regarding the AT-Rt's take 16 crits be easy thing to do, we will have to see on the game tables.

Hey you brought up the Snow Troopers. My original point was that the tank will have line of sight issues compared to the heavies we currently have in the game and that point stands.

26 minutes ago, BRPort said:

Well this part bothers me, because I LIKE to play Rebels, but you seem to say that that shouldn't matter too much. You suggested to Czym to try other games if he didn't like how things are going. I disagree and I shouldn't have to change to other faction to have a fair game.

I like to play rebels too and I win with them as well. Against Imperials. What data do you have to show that imperials are more powerful than rebels? If Scouts are more powerful than Commandos then aren't Fleet Trooper more powerful than Snow Troopers?

You keep talking about how hard the tank is to kill and sure it is. But it can't score most objectives and also isn't that scary from an armament perspective. I would be more worried about a unit of bikes than this thing if it is empty. If it is carrying a unit than you double dip on wounds you deal which makes it worth shooting at.

[Gorthaur25 130]

9 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

To be fair, at that time it was also determined that the tank would be too big for current basing. With the introduction of this new oval base, any vehicles between 7-8 meters in canon length are possible. The occupier's canon length is 7.3 meters, meaning it should be almost as long as the AT-ST model is tall. 

The LAAT's canon length is 28 meters. I can find no references to smaller craft. 

I have a Slave I (cannon length 21.5 meters) model we use for terrain sometimes that is very close to proper scale (within 10%) and it is enormous on the mat. I can't see them releasing vehicles this big only because they will take up %50+ of your list to feel right on the table compared to what is out there right now.

[TallGiraffe 3,447]

You know people saying the Rebels will struggle to do damage to the tank. It's like the Rebels don't have 2 support options with high impact. 

[NeonWolf 942]

7 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

You know people saying the Rebels will struggle to do damage to the tank. It's like the Rebels don't have 2 support options with high impact. 

Or access to Impact Grenades...

[thepopemobile100 977]

10 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

You know people saying the Rebels will struggle to do damage to the tank. It's like the Rebels don't have 2 support options with high impact. 

Right? Two AT-RT laser cannons have been a must have in every list of mine since the game launched just in case of armor. With more armor being put in the game, they will be able to justify themselves even more on my lists

Edited January 15, 2019 by thepopemobile100

[TallGiraffe 3,447]

10 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

Or access to Impact Grenades...

Fleets with impact grenades and a scattergun. 

[NeonWolf 942]

20 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

You know people saying the Rebels will struggle to do damage to the tank. It's like the Rebels don't have 2 support options with high impact. 

 

13 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

Or access to Impact Grenades...

 

2 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Fleets with impact grenades and a scattergun. 

Or Proton Charge Saboteurs

[TallGiraffe 3,447]

3 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

 

 

Or Proton Charge Saboteurs

Or the dish turret. 

[Abwehrschlacht 168]

7 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Wait, “meh” for the tank? It has red defense dice, the only one in the game. It’s attack dice are decent, and it looks cool and it even carries a full unit. What more did you want?😳

And yeah I agree with you on the X-34. I may be weaker than the tank, but it’s just too cool😎. I just hope it doesn’t end up like the T-47, good on paper, but garbage in reality. 🥺

Yes, meh for the 'tank'. I don't care how it does in the game, it looks crap and is not in the original trilogy, so I'm out. What more do I want? More stuff from the original trilogy. 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

The GOCAT is really cool, but it's going to be terrain dependent in regards to LOS. It looks to be 1.5X the height of the stormtrooper. Maybe 2X. Not to mention the narrow front arc and crazy long side arcs, re-positioning this thing to use it's main guns will be a pain.

What I found with the T-47 and AT-ST, is terrain creates lanes you are essentially forced to move along. There is no difference with the GOCAT. It's effectiveness will be entirely dependent on it's starting position because it can't move quickly (speed 1) nor can it shoot "down" onto other minis over terrain. I can imagine it will be a nightmare to make a 90 degree turn at speed 1 as you swing that base around. It is intimidating on paper, but I wonder how much it will contribute to the fight if it can't move through/around terrain. 

Contrast this to the X-34 which is speed 2, has speeder, a smaller base, and is half the cost. The X-34 will be reliant on it's upgrades to be combat effective, but I really like the plug n play concept.

Personally, I think both are well balanced and thematic. 

[Tirion 2,223]

17 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

X-34 Landspeeder

75 pt Heavy

Armor 2: While defending, cancel up to 2 hits

Arsenal 3

Cover 1

Limit Transport 1: Open- You may transport 1 friendly trooper unit that consists of exactly 1 mini. After defending, if you suffered 1 or more wounds, each unit you are transporting suffers 1 would.

Speeder 1: While moving, ignore terrain height 1 or less. When you activate, perform a compulsory move.

Can't make out any of the other cards, except that the rocket is impact 2 and that the front pilot allows you to increase or decrease your speed by 1. I don't think that'll work with the compulsory and I don't think that it's worth the 5 points

If it doesn't work with compulsory then why would it say lower speed?