New vehicles!

[thepopemobile100 977]

1 minute ago, UnitOmega said:

Hey, careful. Pre-343 Halo is really good. Novels too. Star Wars should not throw stones about being a perfect franchise all the time. Also Halo gave us RvB, which was heavily quoted earlier. 

I suppose that's fair. There's a good sized chunk of Star Wars that came out recently that most fans didn't like and we should leave it at that. I personally never liked Halo pre or post 343, but to each their own

[Commander Czym 8]

So I’ve been told that if I don’t like the new empire vehicle and in my opinion it further throws the balance of this game off, that I should find another game to play. Is this how we represent our game? If someone has a different opinion, you tell them to just go? That is wrong sir, and I hope you don’t treat potential new player like this in person.

As for me, I’ve been running our local legion tournaments here for the last several months, and we have a group of around 15 players. I think I have a grasp on the rules, balance, and current meta. I see what people are running and how players deal with units.

The empire units are side by side better. There is no answer to the range 4 two red dice upgrade. Or the three black dice range 4 impact 3 upgrade. These are both weapons that are shown in the movies as being used by both sides, yet only the empire has them (for now). 

Now the new speeder is nice and very fitting, however it is what the snow speeder should have been in the first place. Both in price and function. 

This is a GAME. The basics of a game is balance. One side has units that can be countered by something on the other side. The tactics is to have the right unit in the right place. Right now, in my opinion that is not the case. How do rebels deal with the ATST right now, the most common tactic is to avoid it and hope that it does kill too many units.

As for dealing with the tank when it comes out, there will be a lot of terrain on the board that will limit the movement, especially the turning of it. Since everything right now is in a round base, pivot is easy to change facing. The tank has an oval base, the pivot will need more room. 

[BRPort 8]

5 minutes ago, Commander Czym said:

So I’ve been told that if I don’t like the new empire vehicle and in my opinion it further throws the balance of this game off, that I should find another game to play. Is this how we represent our game? If someone has a different opinion, you tell them to just go? That is wrong sir, and I hope you don’t treat potential new player like this in person.

As for me, I’ve been running our local legion tournaments here for the last several months, and we have a group of around 15 players. I think I have a grasp on the rules, balance, and current meta. I see what people are running and how players deal with units.

The empire units are side by side better. There is no answer to the range 4 two red dice upgrade. Or the three black dice range 4 impact 3 upgrade. These are both weapons that are shown in the movies as being used by both sides, yet only the empire has them (for now). 

Now the new speeder is nice and very fitting, however it is what the snow speeder should have been in the first place. Both in price and function. 

This is a GAME. The basics of a game is balance. One side has units that can be countered by something on the other side. The tactics is to have the right unit in the right place. Right now, in my opinion that is not the case. How do rebels deal with the ATST right now, the most common tactic is to avoid it and hope that it does kill too many units.

As for dealing with the tank when it comes out, there will be a lot of terrain on the board that will limit the movement, especially the turning of it. Since everything right now is in a round base, pivot is easy to change facing. The tank has an oval base, the pivot will need more room. 

I back you again. I made a comment earlier on about your statement and I was charged to be ranting. Well I am also concerned. This GAMEs system is based on points/ powers. More power more points and vice versa. I have being experiencing that the Imps points are totally worth and justified while the powers of the rebels are getting expensive. This can push the game to unbalance

[thepopemobile100 977]

10 minutes ago, Commander Czym said:

So I’ve been told that if I don’t like the new empire vehicle and in my opinion it further throws the balance of this game off, that I should find another game to play. Is this how we represent our game? If someone has a different opinion, you tell them to just go? That is wrong sir, and I hope you don’t treat potential new player like this in person.

As for me, I’ve been running our local legion tournaments here for the last several months, and we have a group of around 15 players. I think I have a grasp on the rules, balance, and current meta. I see what people are running and how players deal with units.

The empire units are side by side better. There is no answer to the range 4 two red dice upgrade. Or the three black dice range 4 impact 3 upgrade. These are both weapons that are shown in the movies as being used by both sides, yet only the empire has them (for now). 

Now the new speeder is nice and very fitting, however it is what the snow speeder should have been in the first place. Both in price and function. 

This is a GAME. The basics of a game is balance. One side has units that can be countered by something on the other side. The tactics is to have the right unit in the right place. Right now, in my opinion that is not the case. How do rebels deal with the ATST right now, the most common tactic is to avoid it and hope that it does kill too many units.

As for dealing with the tank when it comes out, there will be a lot of terrain on the board that will limit the movement, especially the turning of it. Since everything right now is in a round base, pivot is easy to change facing. The tank has an oval base, the pivot will need more room. 

If you were told to find another game to play because of an issue you have with how you see balance getting affected, then I apologize for that individual's remarks. It is never okay to tell someone to leave because they have a differing opinion than you.

Before I start, I want you to understand that I am a rebel player and have plenty of experience with all but the wookies (picking them up this weekend) so I'd hope that I know what I'm talking about. As for balance, I don't really see the issue you have with it. You state that a common tactic with the AT-ST is to avoid/ignore it which is a tactic that can still be used with the new imperial heavy as it will not be putting out nearly as much firepower as the AT-ST. With the DLT-19 it is great in it's consistency, but the low damage cap of the gun means it probably won't touch anything behind cover. The players in my group generally don't just shoot with the DLT as it tends not to accomplish much on its own unless there is a vehicle it can hit. If you're getting shot at consistently with just a DLT, try prioritizing dodge actions as they help a lot against them.

The stormtrooper rocket is incredibly situational and really doesn't see much use. Mainly because it is cumbersome, but also because of it's exhaust. Any squad who wants to take use of it is probably fairly stationary and in good cover. If they are giving you issues, I'd recommend trying to always keep a suppression token on them if you can as that stops them from reloading and shooting in one turn.

[thepopemobile100 977]

@BRPort I've seen you claim that the game favors the empire and that the release of these two vehicles are going to push that favor more into the empire's court. Can you be more specific and provide examples of released units of why you think that the game is currently unbalanced so I can understand why you think that?

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

5 hours ago, Shieldwolf72 said:

Personally I like the fact that the speeder is based on an iconic star wars vehicle.

Don't worry it's not.

It's based on a classic metal Star Wars miniature. *swoon* It's so dreamy! 😍

Edited January 16, 2019 by TauntaunScout

[Commander Czym 8]

I am also a rebel player. I have a decent record and win more than I lose. I know that it is boring if both sides had exactly the same units. Then we are just playing chess.

What I am talking about s that the empire has the bigger armored units and the best ranged weapons and the biggest impact weapons. What does that leave the rebels? We have ion which is pretty useless since you have to exhaust it.  The biggest weight (balance pun) is the those weapons are both for core units. So you could have up to 6 of them. A min/max list had 6 dlt’s and 3 sniper teams. That is more range and impact than most rebel lists. 

So with having impact in the core units, rebel armor is not safe. But empire armor is at this point. At first it was okay since the bikes didn’t have armor. But now they keep adding armored units without compensating the rebel with a counter. I would like to see an update box for each side. It could include a few new models and cards. A missile trooper for the rebels that goes in the heavy slot of the core. Something like that. 

I know that the game will never be balanced. Just picking lists makes it unbalanced. What works against one list is useless against a different one. I just want the option to put it in my list.

We are talking about units that haven’t even come out yet. Hopefully FFG will see some of this and plan accordingly. I think the best fix would be to give the tank a white defense die with no surge and give the snowspeeder a red defense die in return. 

But this is just my humble opinion.

[DarkTrooperZero 304]

You are forgetting Rebel characters are amazing and rebels have more access to pierce to ignore red defence dice.

Not sure why you blokes are getting in a huff, maybe people are sick of people complaining Imps are so OP And Rebels suck etc etc  when just recently wonder twins was considered one of the best lists so maybe people are a bit snappy at you?

[Jabby 1,042]

To me it seems that against the TX-225 GAVw Occupier Combat Assault Tank (I refuse to call it the GOCAT) you would be able to get cover very easily as a trooper unit due to its low profile. Also, the pilots that come with it seem to be able to be used on the At-St. I’m thinking that the pilots that come with the landsppeder might be able to fix the airspeeder

Edited January 16, 2019 by Jabby

[ScummyRebel 5,346]

5 minutes ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

You are forgetting Rebel characters are amazing and rebels have more access to pierce to ignore red defence dice.

Yup.

And don’t forget about that two of the rebel armored/semi-armored units move much faster than the imperial counterparts, meaning range control is a lot easier. That DLT with impact is nice, but not if it’s the only weapon shooting at something with innate cover 1 that can kill the hit before impact.

Snipers can take potshots at the sides of our new shiny, and get a guaranteed wound through between the impact 1 and the pierce.

[thepopemobile100 977]

8 minutes ago, Commander Czym said:

What I am talking about s that the empire has the bigger armored units and the best ranged weapons and the biggest impact weapons. What does that leave the rebels? We have ion which is pretty useless since you have to exhaust it.  The biggest weight (balance pun) is the those weapons are both for core units. So you could have up to 6 of them. A min/max list had 6 dlt’s and 3 sniper teams. That is more range and impact than most rebel lists. 

So with having impact in the core units, rebel armor is not safe. But empire armor is at this point. At first it was okay since the bikes didn’t have armor. But now they keep adding armored units without compensating the rebel with a counter. I would like to see an update box for each side. It could include a few new models and cards. A missile trooper for the rebels that goes in the heavy slot of the core. Something like that. 

If the empire min/max is 6 dlt's and 3 sniper teams, then that's not a lot of armor I need to be worried about. Especially seeing that the AT-ST is too expensive to fit with that. I hate using Leia, but a turn one coordinated bombardment will wound or kill off all 3 sniper teams if she can see them. As for the range of the dlt's, range 4 is good but it isn't game breaking. Both rebel corps are cheaper and put out much more hurt with the ranges that the stormtrooper unit needs to be at to be effective at fighting units in cover. Snowtroopers are the only unit that can keep up with the damage output of the rebel corp and they can only do that at range one, yet that doesn't stop them from being used effectively.

If armor is really going to bother you, I really do recommend a pair of laser cannon AT-RTs. They're a comparatively cheap and effective way of killing armor without having to worry about losing to heavy units.

Everyone here, rebel and imperial, would love to see an update box like you just described. That's why we're getting a support personnel pack at the end of the month

[UnitOmega 2,818]

I don't think Imperial armor is safe. Luke's always been a bit scary, and, always in motion the future is - there's plenty about upcoming announced releases which are unknowns. It's too early to say what exactly things are gonna be like by the time we get to the new Heavy expansions. While it's unique, Rebels are gonna likely get an Ion weapon which doesn't exhaust in Pathfinders. But! we don't know exactly what it does, which is why I don't think it's cool to call FFG out on half-given spoilers for a release months from now with more tech between now and then. 

And honestly, I think the X-34 is how you make Imperial Armor not safe. This thing is a Heavy unit for 75 points. It technically has the same health and defense (with surge) as two speeder bikes, with still Cover 1 plus Armor 2, for only 1 less speed - and it doesn't lose half it's firepower at 3 wounds. Given Arsenal 3 though, you're obviously gonna be loading these things down with a few upgrades, which can include an ion blaster and a rocket launcher, which will likely add quite a bit of impact and Ion. Rebel units are already relatively cheaper than Imperial ones, you can probably comfortably drop two of these things in the list, where as most of the time I hear of double AT-ST, that's like madlad speech. 

[thepopemobile100 977]

1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:

Yup.

And don’t forget about that two of the rebel armored/semi-armored units move much faster than the imperial counterparts, meaning range control is a lot easier. That DLT with impact is nice, but not if it’s the only weapon shooting at something with innate cover 1 that can kill the hit before impact.

Snipers can take potshots at the sides of our new shiny, and get a guaranteed wound through between the impact 1 and the pierce.

That never even occured to me with the GOCAT and snipers. I love it

[UnitOmega 2,818]

1 minute ago, thepopemobile100 said:

That never even occured to me with the GOCAT and snipers. I love it

 Never engage in a head-on confrontation. Sabotage, outmaneuver, obfuscate. This should be like, page 1 of the rebel playbook in big boldface letters. 

[smickletz 200]

On 1/14/2019 at 10:05 PM, TallGiraffe said:

Kinda expensive aren't they though?

Some definite sticker shock when I saw the price, and I hope it isn’t a trend.  However, the models look incredible and there seem to be more cards than you’d typically see in a heavy unit expansion. I will likely hold off on purchasing until there is a sale.

[Commander Czym 8]

Rebels do have some good characters. I run Luke, leia, and chewie. With a full squad of wookiees. 

But the emperor is better than any one of them, same with Vader. It is just the rebels characters have better synergy. 

A lot of it is how you play your list, I can’t kill the empire, but I run and grab an objective and hide.

but back to the vehicles, it is about threat potential. The empire has another (another!!!) big threat and has another option now. The rebels have a good vehicle that fits the theme, but doesn’t balance as a threat (that we know of). 

I’m sure looking at this in a vacuum makes the empire really unbalanced. But, in practice on a table with a decent player, it will be better balanced.

[Zrob314 833]

7 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I typically reference Wookiepedia, since it compiles the various sources, provides references, and allows for quick reference to "Legends." The measurements for the LAAT/I on Wookiepedia are from the April 3, 2018 canon reference publication Star Wars Encyclopedia of Starfighters and Other Vehicles. 

The other ship you reference is the LAAT/c, which while it does not have a listed size, I believe is shown in media to be roughly the same size as the LAAT/I, the only real difference being replacing the troop transport section with mag clamps to transport the AT-TE. I can't find a good reference photo off hand. 

Your cited article has a publish date of June 16, 2014 according to the page source. I THINK the newer canon publication takes precedence? It's hard to keep track with this stuff...

awww jeeze, who knows.  
Personally I'm going to stick with the star wars databank if it has numbers as being the most official of the official.  There's also behind the scenes stuff with the designers where they talk about how the Iroquios was their primary inspriation.  Then eyeballing what people look like in the thing and the available space.   It is the unfortunate side effect of the battle of Geonosis being almost entirely CGI, there are no props for real physical reference.  

So, I agree that the LAAT would be a large piece on the board.  They could shrink it a bit like they did the T-47, bit it would still be big.  But It is so very iconic to the GAotR.  I think it can be done, but I'm also really hoping it will be done.  

 

As an aside....here's the problem with the visual encyclopedia...I think they used the size of the C for the I.  I mean look at the scene of the pursuit of Dooku.   Those 5 people in the back are supposed to be taking up the same area as an AT-TE.  It makes no sense.  

Edited January 16, 2019 by Zrob314

[DarkTrooperZero 304]

Mate, Vader and Emps are more expensive so you have less in your army. If I could put Luke into an Imperial armour Vader would be in fire place instead of just collecting dust.

[thepopemobile100 977]

6 minutes ago, Commander Czym said:

Rebels do have some good characters. I run Luke, leia, and chewie. With a full squad of wookiees. 

But the emperor is better than any one of them, same with Vader. It is just the rebels characters have better synergy. 

A lot of it is how you play your list, I can’t kill the empire, but I run and grab an objective and hide.

but back to the vehicles, it is about threat potential. The empire has another (another!!!) big threat and has another option now. The rebels have a good vehicle that fits the theme, but doesn’t balance as a threat (that we know of). 

I’m sure looking at this in a vacuum makes the empire really unbalanced. But, in practice on a table with a decent player, it will be better balanced.

The problem with the emperor and Vader is that they are expensive, slow, short ranged, and are a great target to shoot at. I also have tabled enough empire players, sometimes by turn 4 if they're not playing well, to demonstrate to my local group that while the big expensive toys are great and have their place, they are also very mortal if used recklessly

[Zrob314 833]

3 hours ago, Chili-52 said:

I actually like the X-34 as its such an iconic star wars vehicle.  Having said that, I was expecting rebels to use a flash speeder

Or maybe a Gian V-19 Speeder "donated" by the Naboo Royal Security Forces

Why would the Emperor's home planet give things to the Rebellion?

[Chili-52 198]

37 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Why would the Emperor's home planet give things to the Rebellion?

Before the Disney retcon Naboo had a resistance after the forming of the Empire.  Several of Naboo's RSF vehicles made it into the hands of the Rebel Alliance.  I believe the info was stated in "The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels"

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

@Zrob314 near as I can calculate, the T-47 is in scale for the 1:46ish scale of Legion. It's not a particularly large vehicle, only 5.3 meters long. The pilots are reclined according to the cross sections I've seen.

Seeing as this is the same license holder that created an entirely new variant of the AT-AT just for an episode of Rebels, I'd believe that they grabbed the wrong length for the LAAT/I when printing the book. Either way, still a bit large. Although I didn't expect the Occupier anytime soon for Legion, so your guess is as good as mine. *Shrug*

[BRPort 8]

7 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

@BRPort I've seen you claim that the game favors the empire and that the release of these two vehicles are going to push that favor more into the empire's court. Can you be more specific and provide examples of released units of why you think that the game is currently unbalanced so I can understand why you think that?

well I'm only answering again because you are asking. as I have been criticized when giving my opinion.

  it seems to me that the Imp units points are rewarding but that the rebel powers are starting to get expensive. T-47 for a year now is still not much playable. Commandos are great but scouts are even better for same points. some argue the same for red guards and wookies (I haven't ran the Red guards yet so I cant say). The Imp blaster mobility makes it useful while the rebels FD laser cannon fixed position is not being much used. In this case it risks to become the second rebel unit that has lesser use due to its weakness while for the imps what to use is a more a matter of choice. In this topic (speeder and tank) I fear that this differential may increase. As someone said  before to have the speeder effective you'll need to spend almost as much as the tank naked and still it wont have the same punch/ resilience as the tank. An example of what could be Imp points totally worth it, and Rebel power getting more expensive. These differences collectively can unbalance a game.I only play for fun, not competitively (I'm not that good) so I have both armies to play with friends and family. Sometimes at the local stores. Even though I love playing the Rebels I actually play much more Imps as most of my "opponents" prefer rebels. I remember in the beginning it was tough to win with the Imps. With new units coming every month I found that its getting easier and I have been more careful in choosing the troops to have a fair game and fun for all. Beyond that what I normally see are tables with more players running Imps than rebels. It can be that more people just like the theme better but its not crazy to say  that this could also be more than preferences. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by BRPort

[BRPort 8]

6 hours ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

You are forgetting Rebel characters are amazing and rebels have more access to pierce to ignore red defence dice.

Not sure why you blokes are getting in a huff, maybe people are sick of people complaining Imps are so OP And Rebels suck etc etc  when just recently wonder twins was considered one of the best lists so maybe people are a bit snappy at you?

Well let me put it through another perspective. Maybe you havent noticed that I am a newcomer in the forum and I think the other guy is too. we are the the two players that have been snapped at. Two things are important 1) newcomers are outsiders and come in with fresh perception of the game. If  a feeling (eg. of unbalance) is recurrent even from outsiders then maybe their is some value for moderators to listen. 2) New comers dont know and shouldnt be worried if veterans of the forum are tired of a theme. There are better ways to approach people than snapping at them. 

[Katarn 317]

On a lighter note, the Rodian would work really well as a spotter in a sniper team alongside the regular Mon Cal.  

Depending on how he's put together there may be arm swapping potential there as well to give an alternate sniper.

It's the small things that make me happy.