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7 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

To be fair, it has Weak Point on the sides and the side arcs are huge, so it probably takes less than it seems like it does to bring down.  Also, Luke probably still beats it pretty hard.

It is the only Armoured unit that has red defense dice. So even if you get past it’s Armour, it has a very good defense. Well worth the point cost.

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34 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Which also requires the target taking a wound, except with at most one red dice against a red defense die, and the hit can be cancelled by a Dodge if it wasn't a natural crit. Plus the TX225 has a free pivot prior to a move, so the tow cable isnt an effective counter. And it means taking the T-47, which generally is not considered the most effective Rebel unit given the prevalence of Impact in Empire armies, in addition to the "no overhang" recent clarification.

Red defence armour means on average you'll need 16 crits to destroy it, making it an absolute BEAST.

If the tank becomes prevelant, I think we might start seeing more AT-RT laser cannons in Rebel lists, or overcharged 1.4 FDs (depending on local table terrain). 

 

Which is thematic for the films, but not necessarily the best for competitive play.

I agree thats the thematics, but for that I buy the the movies and collect stuff. As for a game it gives the feeling that FFG wants Imp players and rebel collectors.

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2 hours ago, Thraug said:

I'm also unsure I'd bother putting high value units (leaders) into these vehicles, since they will almost always suffer damage in addition to the vehicle suffering damage which is a bonus for the attacker!! Doesn't sound too useful even though speed 1 Empire units will move a little further in the tank.

Was also expecting some serious boosts to ATST and T47, in some upgrade cards that work on both, both I don't see anything impactful. The new rebel pilot helps the T47 a little bit but not as much as Wedge does. Odd, seems like this expansion could have a hard point upgrade for both speeder and T47 that boosts the T47s value. Hmmm?

Would it make more sense to use an X-34 to transport a sniper unit into a better position than to use it to carry a leader? Seems like that could be useful - send them across the field to an advantageous spot, drop them off, then swoop in to flank.

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1 minute ago, Freeptop said:

Would it make more sense to use an X-34 to transport a sniper unit into a better position than to use it to carry a leader? Seems like that could be useful - send them across the field to an advantageous spot, drop them off, then swoop in to flank.

The idea is great but I wonder how effective it really is in a 6 round game?

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3 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

Would it make more sense to use an X-34 to transport a sniper unit into a better position than to use it to carry a leader? Seems like that could be useful - send them across the field to an advantageous spot, drop them off, then swoop in to flank.

Would it be useful to shuttle a snow trooper unit and have them jump out and Flamethrower/grenade people?

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26 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

Would it make more sense to use an X-34 to transport a sniper unit into a better position than to use it to carry a leader? Seems like that could be useful - send them across the field to an advantageous spot, drop them off, then swoop in to flank.

Isn’t the x34 single mini trooper units only? So the sniper wouldn’t work.

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Maybe Chewbacca is a good unit to shuttle around. He doesn't necessarily mind the wounds if it gets him into combat faster. 

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Just now, ellhaynes said:

I think it’s interesting that we now have two rebel units clearly influenced by Battlefront (At-RT and an armed speeder, in the OT period).

 

Well, the new Battlefront games are considered canon by Disney if I recall correctly, so it makes perfect sense.

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1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

To be fair, it has Weak Point on the sides and the side arcs are huge, so it probably takes less than it seems like it does to bring down.  Also, Luke probably still beats it pretty hard.

All Weak Point does is give the attack pool Impact 1, so yes, the . Weak Point doesn't change that red defence dice will on average cancel half of all hits that get through Armour. With 8 wounds, that means on average 16 crits, either natural or modified by Impact to destroy it. The AT-ST on average dies to 14.66 (edit: 16.5 did my math a bit wrong) crits and is 40 points more stock to stock.

Edited by Caimheul1313
Correction

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21 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Well, the new Battlefront games are considered canon by Disney if I recall correctly, so it makes perfect sense.

Especially when the Rebels are lacking obvious options. There’s not much ground combat in the films that entails both sides bringing vehicles. 

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Guys, it's hardly Imps are so much stronger than rebels. Rebels have a heap of things that are better and easier to use like Luke over Vader.

 

I think the speeders armour 2 is being slightly underrated, combined with cover 1 you have fairly good defences against all but the strongest anti armour attacks. Cover 1 helps heaps versus DLTs being able to chop the hits in half and being able to cancel 3 hits is still decent for a civilian car 

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19 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

All Weak Point does is give the attack pool Impact 1, so yes, the . Weak Point doesn't change that red defence dice will on average cancel half of all hits that get through Armour. With 8 wounds, that means on average 16 crits, either natural or modified by Impact to destroy it. The AT-ST on average dies to 14.66 crits and is 40 points more stock to stock. 

You need 16.5 crits to get through an AT-ST, actually. The AT-ST also has superior firepower at range 3-4, a much less exposed weak point, an emergency melee weapon that makes moving out of melee less necessary, and is less vulnerable to pierce. Speed seems comparable due to the extra length of the Tx-225's base, although reposition gives a mobility advantage to the TX-225. To make a full comparison we're going to need to know the stats for the pintle mount hardpoint, though. The exact function of the transport rules will also shape how things work.

 

Overall, though, I do feel like the TX-225 has a slight advantage. Which, given the many complaints we've seen about vehicles being lackluster, might be merited, provided errata is coming for existing vehicles.

Edited by Squark

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10 minutes ago, Squark said:

You need 16.5 crits to get through an AT-ST, actually. 

How do you calculate 16.5 crits on the AT-ST? 11 wounds, stops 1/3 incoming crits on average (white dice with a surge defence) so needs (11*1/3)+11. 

Edited by Caimheul1313
Clarification

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Just now, OccasionallyCorrect said:

Armor blocks all non crits?  That may cover the rest.

I meant to only count crits in the initial math, rest of the shots don't matter since, as you say they are cancelled. 

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14 minutes ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

Guys, it's hardly Imps are so much stronger than rebels. Rebels have a heap of things that are better and easier to use like Luke over Vader.

 

I think the speeders armour 2 is being slightly underrated, combined with cover 1 you have fairly good defences against all but the strongest anti armour attacks. Cover 1 helps heaps versus DLTs being able to chop the hits in half and being able to cancel 3 hits is still decent for a civilian car 

It doesn't help against DLTs unless the DLT rolls a blank or natural crit on one of the dice. If they roll 2 hits (or hit surge etc) the cover drops one but they only have impact one so the other regular hit is useless anyway.

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27 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

All Weak Point does is give the attack pool Impact 1, so yes, the . Weak Point doesn't change that red defence dice will on average cancel half of all hits that get through Armour. With 8 wounds, that means on average 16 crits, either natural or modified by Impact to destroy it. The AT-ST on average dies to 14.66 crits and is 40 points more stock to stock.

 

...Adding 1 crit to a large cross section of attacks actually does kind of change the math i.e. it takes more crits, but it's easier to score them.  In that regards, I don't really understand your thought process.  Especially because the simple math of survivability also doesn't account for weapon effectiveness.

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6 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

How do you calculate 16.5 crits on the AT-ST? 11 wounds, stops 1/3 incoming crits on average (white dice with a surge defence) so needs (11*1/3)+11. 

11/.666=16.5 this means on 16.5 crits only 11 would go through 

think of it this way mabye 16.5*(2/3) since it stops 1 of 3 

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