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Rocmistro

Contain: A second class defense token

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So, I don't think anyone's ever gotten really excited about the Contain defense token.  It only comes into play once you start taking damage, and while critical hits can be absolutely debilitating, I think most people would rather find ways to reduce overall damage than simply keep a damage card facedown.  Add to this the fact that you never know what you're containing; you will likely spend them at the first opportunity, thus never knowing if you really made a wise decision (perhaps you got "Shield Failure" when all your shields were already down, in which case if you knew that you probably would not have contained it).  Then there's also the problem that Contain only affects the standard critical affect.

So..what do people think of changing "Contain" to:

"When you receive faceup damage card (or cards) as the result of an enemy's attack, you can spend a contain token to turn one of them facedown."

This would change how it works in two ways: 1.) You could spend it on non-standard crit affects (ie, Assault Proton Torpedoes) and 2.) You could see what the Critical was before deciding if you wanted to use it.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky stuff, as we will likely not see a 2nd edition of Armada, nor an errata to Contain, but it's Monday and I'm bored and I had the idea, and regardless of the likelihood of implemenetation, I wanted to see what people thought. 

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Totally agree with you, although the standard critical hits are dangerous, the Contain tokens don't help you with all the other critical effects. But to be honest, don't know how to fix that without creating more trouble for other cards and builds...

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I actually find contain insanely useful. Especial in conjunction with damage control officers. A lot of fleets I've experienced lean really heavy on critical effects. Honestly, I feel like a majority of rebel fleets I've seen in the wave 7 meta are built around delivering some form of crit.  

*shrug*

I know when I can afford it or fit it I take DCOs on any ship with a contain. A couple of times I actually nixed the opponent's strategy so heavily with that upgrade that they quit round 2.  I've never had that effect with evades braces or redirects lol

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Just now, Rocmistro said:

Hrm. I'll have to try it, DS.  MC75 is a perfect candidate for it, in conjunction with RBD, it basically has 12 hull.

I ran it on this number a few weeks after W7 dropped. Great results. 

 

Akbar's Shiny New Wall 
Author: Darth Sanguis

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400  

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

 

[ flagship ] MC75 Armored Cruiser (104 points)
-  Admiral Ackbar  ( 38  points) 
 Mon Calamari Exodus Fleet  ( 5  points) 
-  Damage Control Officer  ( 5  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 175 total ship cost

 

MC75 Armored Cruiser (104 points)
 Mon Calamari Exodus Fleet  ( 5  points) 
-  Damage Control Officer  ( 5  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 137 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Leia Organa  ( 3  points) 
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points) 
= 23 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points) 
-  Repair Crews  ( 4  points) 
= 26 total ship cost

 

1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 
2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points) 
= 39 total squadron cost


 

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Changing the Contain basic rules would probably make the Damage Control Officer redundant and hurt the power slightly of Dodonna, APTs, Dodonna'd pride etc.

May I suggest a new officer like a milder, cheaper version of the DCO. e.g.

  • Damage Mitigation Droids: 2-3 Points. In the spend defence tokens step you may exhaust this card to look at the top damage card before spending a contain token.

Contains of course have other uses. Spending them on Vader/Cymoon fleets to reroll attack dice is one. The other is replacing them for an evade with Captain Needa to use with TRCs.

Edited by Mad Cat

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I don't know that I agree with that, Bertie.  There are still plenty of ships that can get jacked up from ACM, HIE and APT.  It would really only be powerful on ships with 2 contains (and there are only 2 ships that have that, at least 1 of which needs some help anyway). 

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5 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

Changing the Contain basic rules would probably make the Damage Control Officer redundant and hurt the power slightly of Dodonna, APTs, Dodonna'd pride etc.

May I suggest a new officer like a milder, cheaper version of the DCO. e.g.

  • Damage Mitigation Droids: 2-3 Points. In the spend defence tokens step you may exhaust this card to look at the top damage card before spending a contain token.

Contains of course have other uses. Spending them on Vader/Cymoon fleets to reroll attack dice is one. The other is replacing them for an evade with Captain Needa to use with TRCs.

Not a bad idea, Mad Cat. I'd make it a 2 pt. upgrade for Defensive Retrofit slot. Would probably still never get taken over ECM though.

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When running a MC75 list, unless it is a Raddus build (Lando goes in the officer slot), then DCO is almost a auto include for me. I will always make room for that 5pt. officer. Double contains are not to be underestimated. Also, when I do get a crit, especially like Injured Crew, I can discard a contain knowing that I still have another. Also, when taking a BT Avenger shot from a Kuat Refit, it's nice to know that my contains will probably not be targeted by BT, so after Lando hopefully lowers the damage somewhat, I can make sure the rest of the damage is facedown.

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I've found contains quite useful - particularly against bomber-swarms. Having a contain means one fewer thing to worry about, particularly on high-hull ships (where crits can really stack up). Plus they work great with Darth Vader.

I've tried DCO on an MC75 (iirc at the Dark Sphere SC last summer); 3 games, in 2 there were no non-standard crits, so it was useless. In the third the person had FCTs with HIEs and ACMs... so we decided the contain only blocked one.

Maybe an adjustment to DCO would help? Perhaps making it a bit cheaper - but the main problem is that it takes up a valuable officer slot (why take DCO when you can take Brunson/Lando for extra defence?).

I tried DCO a bit on the SSD, and even there it is a little underwhelming; it's still 5 points and an officer slot, and still only useful occasionally.

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53 minutes ago, Rocmistro said:

Not a bad idea, Mad Cat. I'd make it a 2 pt. upgrade for Defensive Retrofit slot. Would probably still never get taken over ECM though.

This droid and DCO could both go in the Support Team slot as is already the case with Medical Team. Seems like a more natural fit but obviously means many ships can't take it. 

In general though, as someone who often flies Dadonna with Luke I must say I *hate* seeing contain on other people's ships as it severely reduces my chance to cause mayhem! 

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I don't think contains were ever intended to be on par with other defense tokens. They're for most purposes (but not all!) the worst defense tokens in the game and generally it seems like ships that have them are priced accordingly. It's better to have them than not have them, but they're not great.

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1 hour ago, Bertie Wooster said:

An MC75 with Damage Control Officer is scary. It's one of my worst fears to play against when I'm playing Screed.

DCO is one of my favorite officers, but she has a very big drawback.  It's a very binary upgrade.

If I take DCO, my opponents do not field fancy crits all day.

If I don't take DCO, I face 2 Dodonnas and 2 Screeds every time.

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10 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I don't think contains were ever intended to be on par with other defense tokens. They're for most purposes (but not all!) the worst defense tokens in the game and generally it seems like ships that have them are priced accordingly. It's better to have them than not have them, but they're not great.

The 'dic disagrees with you about that!

Edited by Rocmistro

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