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Is Theed too strong?

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Is Theed Palace too strong? It's basically Profitable connections for free which you can use multiple times.  
Yeah sure, your opponent can get it too, but if you're taking Theed, you're expecting to win the battlefield roll (eg with Vader), or you're playing a fast deck that expects to claim often.  
So the down side is minimal.  

In the last few events, I haven't seen a non-Theed battlefield apart from some vehicle decks and some mill decks. End even then, vehicle and mill decks can get good use out of Theed too.

I wish the tracked tournament data included battlefields. I'd love to see the stats. 
I think Theed should be made Spot Neutral just like the extra action is.  
It would also help bring Vader down a peg because I think he's just a tiny little bit above the power curve right now. 

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Yeah, it’s so much better than 99% of the other choices except in very specific decks/circumstances that it’s practically a default.  

Spot neutral to get the power action at all isn’t a bad idea.

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Yeah, it's just the best. Aside from those mentioned, the only battlefield I've even considered was Emperor's Throne Room in a special heavy deck. 

The question at this point really is how will they change it? I think it would be fair if you can only get the resource if you have a neutral character and cut the extra action from the card. Something like:

Power Action - Spot a neutral character to gain 1 resource.

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29 minutes ago, Joelist said:

Just remember that absent a Neutral character Theed is little different than other Battlefields that grant a resource for claiming. 

Getting it right away in the first round of the game is incredibly relevant.  So it’s a little difference, but a big deal.

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18 minutes ago, Joelist said:

Just remember that absent a Neutral character Theed is little different than other Battlefields that grant a resource for claiming. 

I disagree there. On paper sure, it's not big, but the difference in gaining that resource first round before claiming is huge enough an advantage it's worth 3 points as a plot. Now granted, maybe that plot is over costed, but that's a different conversation. The advantage of an extra resource is enough that cards that give a player a resource come with a tangible downside: Respite requires you to exaust a character, Truce gives both players one, Well Connected gives the other player the option of drawing a card. Extra resources should have downsides and aside from the loss of tempo isn't one. And 3 resource starts is a big deal: It lets a player hyperspace jump first turn, play a big upgrade, or roll out Vader roll in 1st round, hit his big sides(4 damage) to resolve them while still having a resource left over for removal.

The worst part is the battlefield lets you consistently do that, removing game variance which is usually bad for a card game's balance. It's gotten to the point that the roll for the battlefield can decide matches, which previously was a thing that only happened in the mirror. Theed is that powerful in my opinion. Reducing it to spotting a neutral character, yes makes those characters better but it significantly reduces the decks that can actually play it over another one.

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It just needs to be banned. Reducing it to spot a neutral character actually increase its power level in most matches. Most decks don’t have neutral characters and when your opponent doesn’t have a neutral character the battlefield is completely one sided.  

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3 hours ago, Rafug9 said:

It just needs to be banned. Reducing it to spot a neutral character actually increase its power level in most matches. Most decks don’t have neutral characters and when your opponent doesn’t have a neutral character the battlefield is completely one sided.  

FFG doesn't ban cards though, they've made that clear.

Also, I think the point of a nerf shouldn't be to make it unplayable, but instead make it more restrictive. For example Snokes nerf or the errata of something like fast hands is what I consider a good nerf. Right now, literally every deck save for vehicles either runs or probably should run Theed.

So requiring a neutral will reduce it's playability, in that decks without one won't be able to rely on the extra resources. Also that is definitely a restriction since most of them aren't very good(Han3 and Hondo non-withstanding) and that makes those characters better. As for being stronger, I'd say that my proposed fix puts it on the level of battlefields like weapons factory(but slower since it takes an action). If I'm not also a vehicle deck, I gain nothing from my opponents weapons factory which is where this falls about then which I don't think people were complaining about Weapons Factory Alpha. I think that'd be fine at about that level.

If you want to make it more restrictive you could put an additional cost to it, either make it a Truce like effect or have it cost you discarding a card or something for non-neutrals to gain a resource.

Edited by Atomisk

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I have been playing Poe, Han with Maz's Valt and I still use Theed. I can say that having one more  Resource than my opponent  is amazing and stacked on Maz's Valt means I can do what I want. Han allows  the extra action so it claims  95% of the time too.

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1 hour ago, ozmodon said:

I have been playing Poe, Han with Maz's Valt and I still use Theed. I can say that having one more  Resource than my opponent  is amazing and stacked on Maz's Valt means I can do what I want. Han allows  the extra action so it claims  95% of the time too.

I've played Han3/Poe2 before and I think that's a completely fair, go fast and shoot hard deck. It's In the vein of Sabine but with a lower ceiling on damage and less consistent action cheating. I like it a lot and was really impressed with it when I played against it at the Chicago Regional, but I think that it doesn't need the speed from the ambush from Theed and it definitely felt like it needed to win the battlefield to have a shot(cause without drops it seemed to suffer).

In your opinion, do you think that you would still play the battlefield if you couldn't get the extra action? Since that deck relies on the tempo so much I could see using the battlefield's action as a serious risk against a moderately fast 2 wide, but still useful in enabling Hyperspace Jumps and stuff.

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1 hour ago, RJM said:

...So, Moisture Farm?

No, because it has the additional action for the spot Neutral character. They could change it so it allows you to play something, so you don't have to pass.

~D

Edited by HoodieDM

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17 hours ago, Atomisk said:

I've played Han3/Poe2 before and I think that's a completely fair, go fast and shoot hard deck. It's In the vein of Sabine but with a lower ceiling on damage and less consistent action cheating. I like it a lot and was really impressed with it when I played against it at the Chicago Regional, but I think that it doesn't need the speed from the ambush from Theed and it definitely felt like it needed to win the battlefield to have a shot(cause without drops it seemed to suffer).

In your opinion, do you think that you would still play the battlefield if you couldn't get the extra action? Since that deck relies on the tempo so much I could see using the battlefield's action as a serious risk against a moderately fast 2 wide, but still useful in enabling Hyperspace Jumps and stuff.

Without the extra action  I think it would benefit Vader more than Han, Poe . It would be  a toss up  if I took Theed but it would still be in the top two.

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1 hour ago, HoodieDM said:

No, because it has the additional action for the spot Neutral character. They could change it so it allows you to play something, so you don't have to pass.

~D

This would probably make it unplayable because I think by rules you have to pass any extra actions after a claim action, or at least that was what was ruled on Force Speed & Emperor's Throne Room

After sleeping on it, I think the idea I like best as a nerf would be to keep it as it is but give both players the resources, keeping the extra action for neutrals.

2 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

Without the extra action  I think it would benefit Vader more than Han, Poe . It would be  a toss up  if I took Theed but it would still be in the top two.

Wouldn't Vader not bring it unless they run Jawa since they wouldn't get he resource then? But that's fair, and I think that speaks to it the battlefield's power still.

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1 hour ago, Atomisk said:

This would probably make it unplayable because I think by rules you have to pass any extra actions after a claim action, or at least that was what was ruled on Force Speed & Emperor's Throne Room

After sleeping on it, I think the idea I like best as a nerf would be to keep it as it is but give both players the resources, keeping the extra action for neutrals.

Wouldn't Vader not bring it unless they run Jawa since they wouldn't get he resource then? But that's fair, and I think that speaks to it the battlefield's power still.

Use the power action ability if you have no ready character's.  There it's fixed!

Edited by ozmodon

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3 hours ago, ozmodon said:

Use the power action ability if you have no ready character's.  There it's fixed!

I don't think so, people have bee saying that for Naked Vader the optimal play is to roll out first to avoid tech cards like snare or misdirection. Then after they are activated they'll still just grab the resource to resolve or play removal.

The problem is that they get the resource before the end of the round. It needs a better downside for that.

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1 hour ago, Atomisk said:

I don't think so, people have bee saying that for Naked Vader the optimal play is to roll out first to avoid tech cards like snare or misdirection. Then after they are activated they'll still just grab the resource to resolve or play removal.

The problem is that they get the resource before the end of the round. It needs a better downside for that.

I would suggest that at your local store you give it a try with a few others.  I'm betting it fixes it just fine. 

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26 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

I would suggest that at your local store you give it a try with a few others.  I'm betting it fixes it just fine. 

That's fair, testing always beats theory crafting for sure! So the fix you'd want to test is:

Power Action - If all your characters are exhausted, gain 1 resource. Then spot a neutral character to take an additional action.

But one last question: Would you play Theed still with that ability? I think it's just as good tbh.

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56 minutes ago, Atomisk said:

That's fair, testing always beats theory crafting for sure! So the fix you'd want to test is:

Power Action - If all your characters are exhausted, gain 1 resource. Then spot a neutral character to take an additional action.

But one last question: Would you play Theed still with that ability? I think it's just as good tbh.

I would probably  go with graveyard  using Poe,Han. I'll test it at my end too and see how it goes.

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4 hours ago, Atomisk said:

I don't think so, people have bee saying that for Naked Vader the optimal play is to roll out first to avoid tech cards like snare or misdirection. Then after they are activated they'll still just grab the resource to resolve or play removal.

The problem is that they get the resource before the end of the round. It needs a better downside for that.

As a Vader player, I can tell you that at least half the point of Theed is to be able to put a 3 cost weapon on him in the first round, before activating him. This proposed errata would stop that. It would still be worth playing, but not quite as powerful.

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19 hours ago, Atomisk said:

This would probably make it unplayable because I think by rules you have to pass any extra actions after a claim action, or at least that was what was ruled on Force Speed & Emperor's Throne Room

Hence my additional comment on "They could change it so it allows you to play something, so you don't have to pass."

But again, it's just an idea. I'm sure they'll do something with it. I also do like the idea of giving both players a resource.

~D

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FWIW, been playing a bunch of trilogies lately bc we are doing a trilogy event soon and theed is def not an auto include in trilogy format which leads me to believe that once rotation happens and all the borderline op awakenings block cards go away things will change. 

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