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azeronbloodmoone

is 800 points to small of a army?

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just curious who thinks 800 points is to small of a army build, or even if its to large, or who thinks it just right as is and also why
me personally i would like to see the game restructure to 1000 for normal and 2000 for grand armies, i know you can have friendly games like this and i don't mind that just getting a random topic going

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I’m playing my first escalation operation and I’m interested to see what point value I enjoy the most. After playing on 3x3 boards over the past few months, I’m eager to get in some bigger armies. One thing is certain: small armies on 6x3 boards is not much fun.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/f1/6d/f16d99cd-48ec-4f62-bcc0-a415a45f5ee8/swl_shadow_eo.pdf

 

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I think 800 is just fine for the game as it is. 8-10 activations is plenty on all deployments except battle lines and disarray for filling out your side of the board. Adding more bodies to throw into what will end up as a meat grinder while removing tactical options (can't flank if the enemy spans from one side of the board to the other, can't break the enemy line in half if the gap keeps getting filled, etc.). The point cost as is lets you have a good deal of flexibility while keeping you from having everything you might want like papa palpatine, full pajama ninjas, darth tamater, and min corp.

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Just like armada is just fleet skirmish, this is small fights in star wars. 

Nothing is stoppning you from playing with bigger tables and more points.

The problem with increasing is that the game is being balanced with 800p standard in mind and larger games will rake even longer to play than now, wich will make tournaments even  more clunky.

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4 hours ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

just curious who thinks 800 points is to small of a army build, or even if its to large, or who thinks it just right as is and also why
me personally i would like to see the game restructure to 1000 for normal and 2000 for grand armies, i know you can have friendly games like this and i don't mind that just getting a random topic going

The game works well at 800 points. Tournament round lengths are already as long as I would like them to be. The unit type quantity restrictions are balanced at 800. I don't see an easy way of rebalancing those quantities . If you want to argue for a points increase what benefits do you think it would bring to the game? You can't ask us why it should stay the same without stating why you think it should change.

On a completely unrelated note, a few full stops in there would make your post much easier to read.

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I think they balanced the force sizes very well in this game at 800 or 1600 points. I wouldn't change it except for the ~400 point learning games. I haven't gotten to try the 300 points missions yet but they might be good. But 800/1600 isn't too small in my opinion.

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*shrugs*

800 is good. Touch choices. We're seeing list variety.

I really enjoyed the few 1000 pt games we've played, feels like more fun toys on the table.

1200 team games are gonna be great cause!

Never tried 1600 and no interest in 2 players that just seems draggy...

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I actually think the game may have been created with 1000 points in mind.

i have no evidence, just a feeling. Also, despite the fact that I think it’s a good idea to increase to 1000, I don’t think they should change the limits for what units are allowed, I.e., 2 Commanders, 3-6 Troopers etc.

If you haven’t ever tried to create a list at 1000 points, you may be surprised how little the extra 200 points gets you.

It basically allows you to get maybe one or two more units and a few upgrades for each unit that you didn’t add for the 800 point game, because you  just didn’t have enough points to afford the best number of activations. Also with Wookiees and the IRG, not to mention the Emperor, Darktroopers, etc, it seems like the point totals for units are increasing.

Just a thought.

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9 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Also with Wookiees and the IRG, not to mention the Emperor, Darktroopers, etc, it seems like the point totals for units are increasing.

 

Well no one HAS to take those, they're elite optional things. The release schedule is on sort of on an elite unit bender, right now. If they release a bunch of corps troops that cost a lot I'll agree. Once the officers come out, the average points-cost for required stuff will plummet. A really cheap commander will free up more points for those elite squads if you are so inclined.

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The thing is, making the game larger doesn't necessarily result in longer games. It only does if there is a proportional increase in # of activations.

However in my experience, having played many many different wargames, if you increase the points by only 25-40% the game doesn't take 25-40% longer. It only takes maybe 10% longer at most.

Because here is the thing. If you have an 800 point Imperial List and you then decide to increase the points to 1000. What would you spend those extra 200 points on? Well you'll probably not spend another 200 points on Snow/Stormtroopers. You'll probably drop 1 unit, out of your 6-7 infantry units, and take a fully kitted AT-ST. Or maybe Boba Fett and a couple E-WEBs.

Is adding an AT-ST a lot of additional time per turn? Not really. Is adding Boba and a couple E-WEBs a lot of extra time? Not really.

See, the higher the points in a table top wargame get, the more toys you tend to have. You'll splurge on more upgrades, take an expensive unit you might not otherwise have taken. You're unlikely to just spam MOAR TROOPERS!

Some people might just spam more troopers of course, but most people won't. And frankly unit activation in this system is pretty simple. Throwing a couple more units on top isn't going to drag the game down.

Another thing to remember is that with more stuff on the board, stuff will die faster.

Most table top wargames allocate 2 hours for each game in a tournament setting. FFG is really the oddball in terms of fast paced tournament games. But Legion is a table top wargame. It should take longer than most of you are used to. Its just the nature of the type of game.

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10 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

The thing is, making the game larger doesn't necessarily result in longer games. It only does if there is a proportional increase in # of activations.

 

True. 200 extra points could mean adding the emperor (no more time) or adding several squads of stormtroopers (lots more time).

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54 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

True. 200 extra points could mean adding the emperor (no more time) or adding several squads of stormtroopers (lots more time).

If the force organization chart doesn't change, you won't really have room for "adding several squads of stormtroopers".

Edited by costi

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In the competitive meta, activations are king. By and large the objectives can only be claimed or captured by trooper unit leaders, so having more trooper unit leader than your opponent gives you a definitive edge. Having more activations than your opponent is even more of an advantage, since you will get to activate a bunch of units in a row, building up suppression counters and wounds. So yes, if given 200 more points I would be adding another unit of fleet troopers to my normal list, trading Leia for two generic officers, and adding more commandos. 

At 1000 points I can easily fill the force organization with either faction, except for the Heavy and Operative slots, giving me 14 activations. That's 5 more activations than my normal competitive list, and I'm not just adding naked squads. Given how much terrain is usually on the tables I play on (a bit over 1/3, depending) that many trooper units could be problematic. 

By all means, play whatever point value you want casually, it's not like the fun police will bust down your door and confiscate your Legion figures for not following the point limit. In my opinion, the point limit and Force Org chart are more important for organized play and pickup games than casual games between friends, when such rules don't need to be followed if both parties agree.

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