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Will it be supported long term by FFG. They stopped supporting Battlelore 1st edition and then second edition as well as several other games I enjoyed. Now with Runewars looking like it is on the way out, I honestly don't know if I want to jump into another game even though it looks great and is a theme I really love.

What sort of assurances are there that this game will be supported long term?

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So first off I believe you to be quite jaded, and these kind of posts are really not necessary. All you need to do is look at the dozens of examples of supported long term games, such as IA, Descent, MOM, Lotr lcg, etc... as examples of how well FFG is capabale of supporting a game.

Board games end. It's part of the cycle. Some games end faster than others because this is a business. And first and foremost, if it ain't making money, it ain't sticking around. 

You obviously have been burned backing a game that got canceled, and are upset, that's totally fair. 

But I don't believe you have a valid point based on your examples, versus the ones I provided.

The irony of it all is that the best way to make sure a game stays supported by FFG, is to support it yourself through sales.

I do not believe this game will have any trouble sticking around given the proposed "fresh" gameplay format and most importantly the IP behind it.

Edited by FrogTrigger

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You are of course entitled to your opinion, as an I. My position is based on past experiences. I also collected Warhammer Invasion, Star Wars card game and several others that were pulled before their tenure was up. So let's agree to disagree mate as we've obviously had different experiences. 

The games I've chosen to support have been discontinued. Therefore I am asking if this one is going to stick around. I'm sure I'm not alone in that question. I don't want to invest in a game to only see it discontinued before being fleshed out.

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Ok, but do you honestly expect FFG to say anything at this point besides "Yes."?

Game was announced today, "Nah it will fold within the year" doesn't really seem like a realistic option. So I'm just not sure exactly what you are hoping for with this type of post.

It comes off negative, condescending and frankly, rude. It's completely unnecessary and is behaviour I'd like to discourage on this forum.

The simplest and most accurate answer if the one I gave you already, if you want to make sure this game stays supported by FFG, then support it with your wallet.

However in your specific case, based on the fact you are obviously already very upset with the company I would suggest looking elsewhere, lots of other good games and companies out there if FFGs style isn't for you.

Best of luck.

Edited by FrogTrigger

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Just based on the similarities between this and Descent or IA I would guess you can expect some big box expansions like we saw with those, or like with the LOTR LCG. Frankly I’m excited as **** to see what FFG do with these!

Edit: excited as the underworld, not anything more profane! 😂

Edited by daveb_33
Language

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I haven't been rude to you at all Frogtrigger, despite you calling me jaded, rude, negative and condescending, as well as you telling me my point is invalid because you haven't had that experience.

I don't need you to police my post. I agreed to disagree. I'll simply leave it at that.

Perhaps I should have simply stated that I am unlikely to support a game I think I would enjoy due to past company decisions involving the support and marketing decisions of games in their line, much like others have stated they are unlikely to support it due to the app requirement. I was curious to see if others felt the same way after the recent Runewars announcement which suggests the end of that line as well.

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My concern is with digitally supported games like this generally. Imperial Assault can at least be played with friends without recourse to the app. Like with any game, this will eventually die... will it be possible to play it at all at that point once the app is no longer supported or updated for new operating systems? Some of my favorite games I've continued playing long after dead and officially supported. Will the very nature of this game make that impossible? On the fence with this one. It looks really fun,  but I don't really want to start investing in a game that is completely dependent on continued support by the company. 

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i would not worry about “what if the app stops being supported” computers are not a fad, this will continue to work in the future even FFG abandons all of the games they make that use apps. The internet is great for that. We can still play old dos games and they are not designed to run on windows 10 for example. 

I am always more concerned of how annoying it would be if I lost a game component after it is out of print.

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1 hour ago, Boromir_and_kermit said:

I haven't been rude to you at all Frogtrigger, despite you calling me jaded, rude, negative and condescending, as well as you telling me my point is invalid because you haven't had that experience.

I don't need you to police my post. I agreed to disagree. I'll simply leave it at that.

Perhaps I should have simply stated that I am unlikely to support a game I think I would enjoy due to past company decisions involving the support and marketing decisions of games in their line, much like others have stated they are unlikely to support it due to the app requirement. I was curious to see if others felt the same way after the recent Runewars announcement which suggests the end of that line as well.

I agree with you.

Frogtrigger references IA as an example of a game that is still supported, but that is a really bad example, and actually reinforces your point, not his. Why?  Because IA is down to a single release each year, from the 2-3 that it had originally. And at the In-Flight report at gencon last summer, FFG didn’t mention IA at all until specifically pressed on it during the Q&A.

IA skirmish is being left alone to die a slow death due to a lack of new content and half-@$$ed OP support. For that reason I’m skeptical about this LotR game too. And I’m a person who has supported this game with my wallet...I own multiple copies of each IA expansion!

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2 hours ago, Eldandil said:

My concern is with digitally supported games like this generally. Imperial Assault can at least be played with friends without recourse to the app. Like with any game, this will eventually die... will it be possible to play it at all at that point once the app is no longer supported or updated for new operating systems? Some of my favorite games I've continued playing long after dead and officially supported. Will the very nature of this game make that impossible? On the fence with this one. It looks really fun,  but I don't really want to start investing in a game that is completely dependent on continued support by the company. 

There are emulators online that can run old operating systems, even for Android and iOS. This would be the solution, though not one anyone really wants.

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Warhammer: Invasion was supported for supported with new product for four years (2009-2013)

Star Wars LCG was supported with new product for six years (2012-2018)

Imperial Assault started in 2014, and still in development, so that's more than four years of new product there again.

Not sure what you are looking for. If it's a guarantee that FFG will keep producing new content for 10 (or for ever?) before even a single core set has been sold, well, no company will give you that.

Note also that unless I am mistaken, this game will resemble Imperial Assault, where even just a core set gives you a full game experience. No expansions are really needed. (Unlike with LCGs for example, where the core sets themselves are clearly just a small part of the experience, so new poduct is needed.)

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Exactly, I don't understand what people want from these companies. Four years of steady content release including the development of a co-op app, that to me is incredible.

All board games end, all games end! Board or digital. It's a business, it's a cycle.

So I will say the same thing I already said, if you're doubting FFGs track record then the answer is yes this game will fold, it might be one year it might be five, but yes eventually this game will fold. If you can't handle that, then go look somewhere else.... and find the exact same thing.

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9 hours ago, thereisnotry said:

I agree with you.

Frogtrigger references IA as an example of a game that is still supported, but that is a really bad example, and actually reinforces your point, not his. Why?  Because IA is down to a single release each year, from the 2-3 that it had originally. And at the In-Flight report at gencon last summer, FFG didn’t mention IA at all until specifically pressed on it during the Q&A.

IA skirmish is being left alone to die a slow death due to a lack of new content and half-@$$ed OP support. For that reason I’m skeptical about this LotR game too. And I’m a person who has supported this game with my wallet...I own multiple copies of each IA expansion!

The state of OP support on some competitive FFG game has no relevance.  I would be shocked if OP has anything to do with this game at all.

 As far as releases for Imperial Asault go, I would hardly call it lacking.  I  certainly have plenty to play.  As far as I’m concerned, 1 expansion per year on a board game is fine.   If this game gets as much content as imperial assault has gotten, I will be thrilled.

I understand the need for new things to shake things up on a competitive level, but this game doesn’t have that and really shouldn’t need multiple releases a year.

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Again, more great points. So all and all it appears as though my IA comparison was actually quite accurate, as I was speaking to the campaign side, not the competitive side (which this also won't have.)

IA has SO MUCH content, its over whelming honestly.

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The simple answer is that sales will drive content. If the game sells well, which I assume it will due to the IP, than it will receive a lot of content in the form of expansions and app content. Look at Descent for example. While it seems to not have any new physical content on the horizon (and believe me, I own everything for that game, and it doesn’t need any new physical content) they did just recently release a new app campaign which is incredible for a game released in 2012.

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On 1/12/2019 at 6:55 AM, Boromir_and_kermit said:

Will it be supported long term by FFG. They stopped supporting Battlelore 1st edition and then second edition as well as several other games I enjoyed. Now with Runewars looking like it is on the way out, I honestly don't know if I want to jump into another game even though it looks great and is a theme I really love.

What sort of assurances are there that this game will be supported long term?

Just out of curiosity, what would your definition for long term support be in this case? How many years should the active life cycle of the game be or how many expansions should be released for this game - or any other game for that matter - for it to qualify as having long term support?

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Astro Chicken, great question. I would like to see them ensure that a decent amount of the main characters from the books are included (there's heaps so I don't expect all of course) and that when they do finish the game up that it gets a decent finish that closes of any gaps in releases (avoiding what happened with Battlelore 2.0 with the missing Elves faction).

Also that the app support is regular (if it's required) and that it remains available once it is discontinued.

Better communication overall about what to expect release wise and then when they do finish the line, explicitly state so rather than ambiguity.

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Let's be honest with ourselves. BattleLore was not purchased by FFG with the intention of continuing the 1st edition.  It's a great system, and maybe it will take off once converted to the L5R universe.

With these things it's all about sales.  I love the universe, but FFG can miss me with that app ****.

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The problem is companies have no idea how long their games will go for. I am sure they have plans set out and a route to follow, but when sales are slow and the game is floundering, at some point they pull the plug. RuneWars is the best example of that. I had heard for their OP they had 8 people show up to the worlds competition. 8. 

Most other OP games are drawing 100+, with a waiting list. At that point it just isn't feasible to support the game anymore, they are LOSING money and this is a BUSINESS.

And while one game is sinking and the player base is getting upset with FFG's silence, there are a dozen other super popular games with hundreds to thousands more players that are out there spending money and keeping the wheel turning on their games development. It's a balancing act with limited resources, so as sad as it is, sometimes your less popular game goes by the wayside and gets left behind. That's business, that's life. Show me a company that juggles this many games and doesn't have that happen.

There is no way a company is going to come out and make promises they aren't sure they can keep, if you want things that up front your best bet honestly is a kick starter. The goals of the game are laid out from the get go, no surprises, no false hope, no pitfalls (unless it misses the mark on funding, of course :) ).

Edited by FrogTrigger

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As far as the app goes, just download the exe, save it to some external hard-drive or cloud storage along with a Windows 7 or 10 (probably 10 would be better at this point) consumer ISO file, then just update periodically. Worst-case scenario, you end up installing Linux onto an old clunker laptop, downloading some virtualizing software, installing Windows from the ISO file into that virtual machine, and then running the exe there (of course, you might be able to get it to work in WINE).

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On 1/11/2019 at 11:55 PM, Boromir_and_kermit said:

Will it be supported long term by FFG. They stopped supporting Battlelore 1st edition and then second edition as well as several other games I enjoyed. Now with Runewars looking like it is on the way out, I honestly don't know if I want to jump into another game even though it looks great and is a theme I really love.

What sort of assurances are there that this game will be supported long term?

I think I'm of the same thinking as you are on this one. I have found myself having an increasingly hard time getting into FF games lately and then product being impossible to buy (LotR LCG/Descent2) or being dropped altogether without enough notice (Android Netrunner reboot).  I haven't found this to be the case with games I enjoy from other companies that seem to have longer print runs and less uncertainty for buyers.  So while I'm pretty stoked to get a lord of the rings game like Decent or Mansions of Madness, I'm not very confident in that game coming from Fantasy Flight.  This is more worrying when the game requires an app.  At least with Descent2 I can still play if FF decides not to support the game and drops the app.  Being in Canada also seems to add additional challenge, as I've been stuck a couple times in the last year or so not receiving my preorder and then the product isn't reprinted (eg. The Mountain of Fire).

Edited by Jeffrey Paul

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