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The Land Endures

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The number and theme of the units currently available is enough for the casual games I play. But the game isn't "done" in my opinion due to the balance issues and quirks in the units and card rules. Though if it had been, I personally would be fine with whats available. As @sarumanthewhitementions, a "cards only" expansion would be able to fix this.

Of course I have my own set of ideas on that topic ;)

 

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Sorry for interfering, but I do not agree with FFG decision and still I have some questions to after reading article third time.

  1. Is it mean that we will not get any other expansion, new units, anything else to this game?
  2. What with currently released items - will they produce new once after clearing current stock?
  3. What with the future of Terrinoth? Have they any plans for this extending their setting?
  4. And why they decide to kill their own battle game just after 2 years? In my opinion now is the key moment to extend community, when they have finally released necessary extensions to this game (Ulthuk, other commanders, other unit types different than those from starters). They should known from start that this will be hard to fight with other famous products (where they many more of available armies comparing to four from Runewars), but hanging white flag does not make sense. Is not it caused sometimes by their new CEO?

 

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1 hour ago, Furrman said:

Is it mean that we will not get any other expansion, new units, anything else to this game?

Most of us are assuming not. There's been no official declaration, but there usually isn't.

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What with currently released items - will they produce new once after clearing current stock?

If they think they can make money doing so, they will. Otherwise, they won't.

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What with the future of Terrinoth? Have they any plans for this extending their setting?

They've done several other games with it. It's unlikely to be killed quickly. That doesn't mean that it will be pushed hard, necessarily, but not killed. I mean, the setting has been around for 20 years... they never did a lot with it in the time, but they have kept it going. It will probably remain like that for a while longer.

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And why they decide to kill their own battle game just after 2 years?

Presumably, low sales.

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In my opinion now is the key moment to extend community, when they have finally released necessary extensions to this game (Ulthuk, other commanders, other unit types different than those from starters). They should known from start that this will be hard to fight with other famous products (where they many more of available armies comparing to four from Runewars), but hanging white flag does not make sense.

Hanging tough requires not being distracted by other things, like Star Wars. They only have so much time, energy, and money to spend. Right or wrong, they've sunk a lot of it into other places, and there wasn't a lot left over.

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Is not it caused sometimes by their new CEO?

The timing of the announcement makes it likely that the final decision was delayed until he could give his opinion on it. But the writing was on the wall before that.

Edited by Xelto

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NOOOooooooooo!!!

 

Don't let it die. Runewars is THE BEST fantasy wargaming battle system I have seen, and I've played them all!

There are players trying their hardest to setup a player base everywhere and build critical mass - we're trying on the other side of the world and growing. You will get sales! You just need to promote it more now that you have a decent option base.

Your starting prices are also too high! - If you reduced prices and re-market energetically, with monthly FFG news - the scene will grow!

Give promo discounts to the retailers to stock Runewars under a new release campaign - same version - just new bundles - perhaps Uthuk versus Latari starter sets.

Release a monthly magazine, with not just FFG news, but battle reports and articles on Runewars, terrain building, painting, strategies, clubs. Learn from your competitors how they got off the ground 30 years ago...

Don't kill it - let it thrive...

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Terrinoth has killed more great games than should be possible. RWM, Runebound, and BattleLore all deserve a setting that can support a quality game. Terrinoth needs to be retired, or grown into a fantasy setting worth caring about,

RWM was a great game that deserved more support. If it didn’t do well right out the gate, FFG could’ve saved it. It wasn’t even past the early adopter phase before FFG decided to shelve it for six months for Legion’s launch. They cancelled the game pretty much immediately after have all four factions complete and the game was in its final form. The only time RWM could’ve found an audience was at launch. FFG never gave it a chance afterwards.

It’s obvious that FFG did RWM as a trial run for Legion and had no investment in building the game over time. If it didn’t sell, they still had x-Wing, Legion, Arkham Horror, and a dozen other lines. RWM wasn’t competing with other miniature games, it was competing with othe FFG games. I suspect that they cancelled the game so they could give the production slots to Legion. When they announced Clone Wars factions for Legion, I should’ve realized that what would have to die to make room for it. Running a miniature game line requires focus and commitment - things FFG has NEVER been great at.

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1 hour ago, Hepitude said:

Where is Church in all this discussion? I feel like he, out of all of us, would have some good insight on what's going on... I wonder if they made him sign a NDA? 

He's on vacation, and I think in a hole of no internet. Not certain if he knows about any of this yet.

He did sign an NDA, which is why I have no more tidbits of knowledge than anyone else.  I would guess that if he can talk about it, it's not good news, if he cant, then that's more hopeful.

Edited by Jukey

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2 hours ago, AvaKha said:

NOOOooooooooo!!!

 

Don't let it die. Runewars is THE BEST fantasy wargaming battle system I have seen, and I've played them all!

There are players trying their hardest to setup a player base everywhere and build critical mass - we're trying on the other side of the world and growing. You will get sales! You just need to promote it more now that you have a decent option base.

Your starting prices are also too high! - If you reduced prices and re-market energetically, with monthly FFG news - the scene will grow!

Give promo discounts to the retailers to stock Runewars under a new release campaign - same version - just new bundles - perhaps Uthuk versus Latari starter sets.

Release a monthly magazine, with not just FFG news, but battle reports and articles on Runewars, terrain building, painting, strategies, clubs. Learn from your competitors how they got off the ground 30 years ago...

Don't kill it - let it thrive...

Are you seriously asking them to launch a monthly physical magazine about a property that, apparently, didn’t even scrape together a full tournament for nationals?

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4 hours ago, Derrault said:

Are you seriously asking them to launch a monthly physical magazine about a property that, apparently, didn’t even scrape together a full tournament for nationals?

Yes I am.

There's a formula that seems to have worked and if one wants to develop a "fanatical" fan base, one would be wise to observe what the competitor is doing and has done and importantly how they started - similar multiple mini games, mini war-games, a small following - heck they didn't even have "world nationals".... and yet their name is more synonymous with this genre that FFG half heartedly attempted to enter and SHOULD have dominated - FFG has the superior gaming system hands down! It just needs to capitalise on it.
Anyone who knows anything about wargaming can attest to the excellent mechanics of the Runewars Minatures game - it's pure genius.

Shame the miniatures don't compare and the price point too high - but that is all forgivable in a 1st edition of the game - did you see what the competitor's first edition miniatures were like?

How would i save it?

1. RELAUNCH with a better more value added starter boxset. Add sexy terrain! Perhaps even consider pre-painted miniatures - that worked for X-Wing. But don't lose your existing fan base by calling it second edition - keep it 1st edition, just make it more sexy.

2. Set up a fanatical fanbase - more than just 1 post every 3 months on the FFG news page - a real physical magazine that the outlets can get their hands on and distribute.

It doesn't have to be specific to Runewars - it can be an FFG magazine - perhaps called "Red Dwarf" that showcases hobby aspects of the game and other FFG games. "Free" expansions and rules and errata via the magazine - make us salivate every month for it....

3. More battle reports, strategy guides - more units, BIG dragons, pegasus, giants, monsters, daemons you name it everything large and sexy.

4. Piggy back on what's hot right - I bet the sales of a certain army in a competitor company are doing well right now after the release of the movie "Aquaman". Expand on your own IP. Heck you have your own IP unlike the competitor that had to rename and rebrand everything under foreign names and lost half of its player base as a result. Nurture the IP and don't dismiss it - it's yours!

I can go on - heck if FFG are reading this and serious about saving their game, please feel free to contact me and I can provide some counsel on where they went wrong and how to move forward.

The two best games FFG have ever created and they aren't concentrating efforts on it - Runewars and Descent. And to me that is pure sadness...

 

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I find it comical that anyone thinks FFG gave this a fair shot.

A miniature wargame needs a lot of unit options to attract players.  Right now, Starwars: Legion has 26 unit types released or on the way, + 2 terrain packs.

Rune wars has 7 units per faction.

 

RuneWars started too slow and never hit critical mass.

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Trying to throw some positivity into the mix: I did have one less pessimistic thought re what the design peeps say in the post- yes it sounds like a 'we're not working on new stuff' thing BUT there is the small nugget of hope that maybe the initial waves are already planned (which could include some we don't have yet) so there's nothing new to be worked on yet.

 

It was always going to be difficult to launch such a line from scratch when up against the established behemoths already in the arena, and it happened at a time FFG was going through changes which may have harmed or helped (we shall see) some of our favorite games (Asmodee seem to be buying up every board game company, but it's yet to be proven if there's enough love there for the games they are bringing under their wing, with the new LOTR game feeling a lot like 'were they working on Descent and decided to do this instead?' - there's a worried part of me that thinks this might be a veiled warning Descent too is abandoned- this was 'a major project they'd been working on for a long time' according to some publicity for it and it's subtitled 'Journeys in Middle Earth'- leaving one wondering if between the lines it's 'Descent's left forgotten in the dark' so there remain a few alarm bells ringing (I disagree over Terrinoth - it has a lot going for it - although I don't think FFG have yet done the realm and its possibilities enough justice - it COULD be as big as games like SW and LOTR IF they gave it a bit more TLC, if this wasn't true then how come GW have made their original lines so popular? I do feel personally they've not built it up and marketed it as effectively as they could because of the obsession and over-focus with IP's, of course the IP stuff will make more money if you push the IP stuff a lot more. Is this the future of everything? A bland, streamlined media world when everything's big IP's and originality is on the wane where creative industries do a tiny bit of original stuff and spew out far more unoriginal stuff cloned (subtle pun) from IP's?? If it was more 50-50 it wouldn't be so bad- IP's can be great worlds to explore in games so I'm not saying such things shouldn't exist at all, there's some really awesome stuff based on IP's and I own some of it, it just saddens me that they're beginning to dominate so much (and soon the IP's will probably all be owned by Disney lol) and pushing out the original, fresh game worlds. And it's not just happening in games.

 

Plus, as I've mentioned before, IP rights can be lost, and that can be a killer for businesses, if it's happened before....

 

Does seem a bit crazy that Legion launched only a year after RWM, may have harmed both games splitting the resources in terms of creating and plugging the games, a new miniatures game needs a lot of push and a lot of units and a lot of wow factor to grow, so surely Legion was too soon. Think how GW did it- exciting tableaux in shops with plenty of varied scenery and units, LOTS of gameplay opportunity in shops, painting experts in shops....., then consider the limited start of RWM, maybe it arrived with too little of a whimper instead of enough fireworks. Although I don't know if the initial GW launches were less large scale, another important point is that if FFG don't just give up on RWM and actually give it the timespan it needs to grow (it's decades behind the likes of Warhammer so can't be expected to match them from day one, if FFG are smart they'll give it years to grow rather than give up on it) it still has potential, but sadly there are a few hints that FFG as it has evolved doesn't nurture and take care of some of its game lines perhaps as well as it used to, I'm hoping these hints will be proved wrong, but a fair few games already seem to have dropped or be dropping off their TLC radar, quite possibly eclipsed by a LOTR/SW/GOT Giant Star.

 

The thing we should fear most is FFG and the other companies merged into Asmodee becoming merely a cash grab industry and not a games company as we used to know it, I hope they don't lose sight of what they are/were. It could instead be positive in that respect though- putting out games is risky and thus a bigger more profitable company is less likely to fail due to one or two releases not working out- it could actually be in a position to take risks on new products with less risk than a smaller company, hence it could improve rather than hinder innovation, or it could just play safe and ditch everything but the big moneymakers. Let's just hope it doesn't finish off the great creativity and gamebuilding passion that has produced a lot of great games from the companies now in the same box.

 

Again there are a few alarm bells in my head though such as what if Game of Thrones Catan means some people will never play original Catan? And that age old question does everything really need a version for every IP out there?(nobody mention Monopoly aka EveryIPwecangetawaywithdoingitasopoly :) ) Is this maybe detrimental to the original (resists obvious temptation to have a dig at Monopoly here) as like I say some people may only play the IP version (and who now thinks the Star Wars Catan announcement is only a matter of time away? Trust me with FFG that HAS to be on the cards/ on the table, NO THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING).

 

Please FFG/Asmodee have a think about what you are and where you're headed, just don't lose it.

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I would have liked to have seen FFG OP give it one solid shot.

The Land Endures, instead of being the end, it could have been the spark . . 

Instead of an article sounding the death knell for their own IP, it could have been a resounding war cry, one telling of hope, of conquest, of expansion. One that announced that, whilst they will no longer be arranging Store, Regional, National events due to attendance, they will be moving the OP to online only.

The game could have operated via the community, forum and social media, easily. We don't NEED prizes and tournaments, we just need a narrative. 

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5 hours ago, Watercolour Dragon said:

Trying to throw some positivity into the mix: I did have one less pessimistic thought re what the design peeps say in the post- yes it sounds like a 'we're not working on new stuff' thing BUT there is the small nugget of hope that maybe the initial waves are already planned (which could include some we don't have yet) so there's nothing new to be worked on yet.

I would like to think that, but the fact that they're having the Worlds champions pick new prizes (instead of the existing prize of designing a new card for the game) makes it sound like new cards for the game are no longer coming.

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Could we ask FFG about consequences of this decision instead of news in corporate language? Someone could precise what this exactly mean, because there is a lot of unknown things...

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30 minutes ago, Xelto said:

I would like to think that, but the fact that they're having the Worlds champions pick new prizes (instead of the existing prize of designing a new card for the game) makes it sound like new cards for the game are no longer coming.

That and the fact that the "Upcoming" list is devoid of anything to do with Runewars makes it quite a sad situation in deed.
 

2 minutes ago, Furrman said:

Could we ask FFG about consequences of this decision instead of news in corporate language? Someone could precise what this exactly mean, because there is a lot of unknown things...

Perhaps as a community the only thing left we can do is to petition FFG to reconsider their position and not drop Runewars development.

After all if we get 5000+ people petitioning FFG/Asmodee (perhaps via change.org) to the new powers that be, perhaps that may help them realise there is a market for Runewars Miniatures, just an untapped demand that they have yet to properly capitalise on due to poor execution.

Failing that we can always just boycott FFG - I'm fairly sick of companies turfing products - the last company to do that lost my support and my business.
So, it's either back to Age of Shitmar or Euro boardgames (or is that Asmodee's ploy all along... root up the entire board gaming industry so all that is left is for everyone to play Settler's of Catan?). I think not - Runewars is worth fighting for - it is quite possibly the best battle game mechanics in any war-game to date.

As a community we need to show FFG/Asmodee they are really rooting it up (turfing their CEO, re-making X-Wing - what were they thinking...., rooting Runewars..)
If anyone on these forums is a cunning linguist able to craft inspirational words of change - then change.org might be our only and final hope, before Runewars follows the list of FFG games that are now long forgotten.

 

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Weighing in a bit.

First I am eternally grateful to the creative staff at FFG for making Runewars in the first place. This is a wonderful game for many reasons which we all know.

The anti-kudos also unfortunately goes to FFG and specifically their marketing. For the FLGSs I frequent as well as visit as I travel for competitive play it's a common lament.  Poor sales are a direct reflection of marketing. We could kibbutz over number of units and so on, the slow release cycle etc but these are details and symptoms of a broader problem.

For me I'm going to keep playing and running RW events locally. As long as we're all having fun that's what counts. 

I am all for fan made materials. We had a really good set of ideas out of  as part of our recent Runecasters podcast for how to do a campaign box.  I do think that collectively and with the joys of 3D printing and as that technology is quickly improving, we have options for new units. This is all great and fine but these things take time and effort. We as a community gotta be pretty passionate to do that.  Having written more than my fair share of gaming material over the years these are things that can be done.  I'd point to Heros of the Alturi Cluster as a good example of what motivated people can do.

 

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1 hour ago, tgall said:

I am all for fan made materials. We had a really good set of ideas out of  as part of our recent Runecasters podcast for how to do a campaign box.  I do think that collectively and with the joys of 3D printing and as that technology is quickly improving, we have options for new units. 

I'm all for new fan-based expansions, though I'm going to strongly suggest we select a leader or small committee to lead, so we don't end up going in a dozen different directions if that's what we do.

However, speaking as someone who's done a bit of 3D printing (including designing terrain for this game)...the tech for collector-quality figures isn't there yet. Fine detail isn't possible unless you want to go to $hapeway$ (IIRC, their price for a single high-quality infantry figure is about $20), and if you want to complain about Reanimate legs breaking, you really, really don't want to go 3D.

If you don't care about figure detail, 3D works. But honestly, adapting other game figures might be better, or (though I haven't priced this out, so I won't swear it's practical) crowdfunding new sculpts.

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2 hours ago, tgall said:

I am all for fan made materials. We had a really good set of ideas out of  as part of our recent Runecasters podcast for how to do a campaign box.  I do think that collectively and with the joys of 3D printing and as that technology is quickly improving, we have options for new units. This is all great and fine but these things take time and effort. We as a community gotta be pretty passionate to do that.  Having written more than my fair share of gaming material over the years these are things that can be done.  I'd point to Heros of the Alturi Cluster as a good example of what motivated people can do.

 

 

The thread below did not get much traction when I posted it, but maybe it has potential ;)

 

But this is what I would want a community consensus on the most :)

 

 

And this is also needed ;)

 

Edited by Maktorius

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1 minute ago, flightmaster101 said:

No, I just have some contacts.  I wont violate confidence on specifics, but if they want to post you can hear it from them.

Basically things were in the works, and actively being tested.  Now... not so much

Thanks. Thought I might have missed a deleted post. Hopefully anything in the works will get pushed out. This is their own IP and anything already developed and to the testing phase has had most of the $$ invested in to it.

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3 hours ago, AvaKha said:

That and the fact that the "Upcoming" list is devoid of anything to do with Runewars makes it quite a sad situation in deed.
 

Perhaps as a community the only thing left we can do is to petition FFG to reconsider their position and not drop Runewars development.

After all if we get 5000+ people petitioning FFG/Asmodee (perhaps via change.org) to the new powers that be, perhaps that may help them realise there is a market for Runewars Miniatures, just an untapped demand that they have yet to properly capitalise on due to poor execution.

Failing that we can always just boycott FFG - I'm fairly sick of companies turfing products - the last company to do that lost my support and my business.
So, it's either back to Age of Shitmar or Euro boardgames (or is that Asmodee's ploy all along... root up the entire board gaming industry so all that is left is for everyone to play Settler's of Catan?). I think not - Runewars is worth fighting for - it is quite possibly the best battle game mechanics in any war-game to date.

As a community we need to show FFG/Asmodee they are really rooting it up (turfing their CEO, re-making X-Wing - what were they thinking...., rooting Runewars..)
If anyone on these forums is a cunning linguist able to craft inspirational words of change - then change.org might be our only and final hope, before Runewars follows the list of FFG games that are now long forgotten.

 

This decision was pretty clearly tied to two things:

1) Nonparticipation in the Organized Play

2) Probably less than stellar sales.

Boycotts and petitions would require a critical mass, which was obviously lacking.

@AvaKha  I can’t recall the last time I read a physical magazine related to gaming...maybe a decade or two ago? Is there anything similar still in existence? Because this sounds fairly unrealistic given the resources required (printing, distribution, editors, copywriters, writers, etcetera; publishing is not a light task)

 

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7 minutes ago, Derrault said:

@AvaKha  I can’t recall the last time I read a physical magazine related to gaming...maybe a decade or two ago? Is there anything similar still in existence? Because this sounds fairly unrealistic given the resources required (printing, distribution, editors, copywriters, writers, etcetera; publishing is not a light task)

 

Well the White Dwarf still exists and then there is Wargames Illustrated, Privateer Press had their NoQuarter Magazine until a year or two ago and there is the german magazine Tabletop Insider, these are the ones I know.

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Hearing a lot of this talk has got me a little excited at the possibility that they'll bring this game back some day...but it's probably just a foolish hope. Even if they did bring it back, would they allow us to keep our old models? Because I have a lot of Waiqar, and I don't think I'd be interested if I had to buy it (and paint it!) all over again.

The other consideration is the template system. To me, it's genius. But I can see where others may look at it as a fad (X-wing, Attack Wing, now Runewars). I'm not sure it has the allure to come back for a second run. But I really hope it does because I love planning maneuvers in secret, and then watching the battlefield change. The feeling of "problem solving" situations to find the best maneuver is a rewarding aspect of this style of game.

And of course, as others have said, I really want FFG to push Terrinoth more. Sigh. I guess that means I need to go out and buy Heroes of Terrinoth. Anyway, my wife said that from everything she's heard me talk about, Terrinoth is a very generic fantasy setting. I guess that's perfect for people like me who haven't really jumped into other fantasy worlds yet. But I can see where others wouldn't be drawn to it. FFG really needs to work to promote their own Terrinoth IP. It would be worth the effort.

(Sorry for rambling. I've enjoyed reading your comments over the weekend as I wrestled with this news. Just wanted to add a couple of my thoughts.)

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19 minutes ago, Iceeagle85 said:

Well the White Dwarf still exists and then there is Wargames Illustrated, Privateer Press had their NoQuarter Magazine until a year or two ago and there is the german magazine Tabletop Insider, these are the ones I know.

So, between the two similar examples of a marketing magazine, one is GW which has the benefit of 30 some odd years momentum, and the other is defunct?

The farewell for No Quarter Prime (the rebranding of No Quarter) even mentions the reality of consumer preference for electronic over print mediums), which isn’t exactly inspiring.

 

 

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