Jump to content
Tvboy

If 5 T-65s was supposed to be too good, why isn't 5 Khirax's a thing?

Recommended Posts

I'm genuinely curious about this. Everyone was saying at the beginning that being able to fly 5 X-Wings in a list with no upgrades would be too strong. Then why aren't we seeing 5 Khirax's tearing up the meta or even showing up at all? They have the same stats (1 shield downgraded to a hull), very similar dials (loses the 1-straight for a 1-hard) and similar actions. The Khirax is arguably just slightly weaker than a T-65 overall, but mostly they're interchangable. So would it really be that bad to allow 5 Blue Squadron Escorts if 5 Khirax's haven't accomplished anything in 2.0? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

I'm genuinely curious about this. Everyone was saying at the beginning that being able to fly 5 X-Wings in a list with no upgrades would be too strong. Then why aren't we seeing 5 Khirax's tearing up the meta or even showing up at all? They have the same stats (1 shield downgraded to a hull), very similar dials (loses the 1-straight for a 1-hard) and similar actions. The Khirax is arguably just slightly weaker than a T-65 overall, but mostly they're interchangable. So would it really be that bad to allow 5 Blue Squadron Escorts if 5 Khirax's haven't accomplished anything in 2.0? 

The access to boost is drastically underrated. 

5k is probably pretty fine (B- tier), but few people are willing to both own 5 K-wings and go "Yeah, that's the squad I want to fly"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5ks is significantly worse than 5 X-Wings

- no sfoils means no boost or linked boost (this is the big one)
- worse hull/shield ratio
- slightly worse dial (1 less move. Sure, 1 hard turns are great but so is the 1 straight)

At least when you are fielding them naked the poor upgrade slots on the k don't matter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kihraxz can’t boost(servomotor s-foils are pretty cool)

shield>hull

 

but it’s mostly boost, it is why I loved K-fighters in 1.0 but feel iffy about them in 2.0 they really want to boost.

5k-fighters might be flying under the radar, but imperials have cheaper 3 red dice ships so you can still have a 5 ship list with 3 dice ships, but have more variety leading to a more balanced list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

It's a bookshelf you uncultured swine!...well, unless you follow directions like I do, in which case is a loose collection of obscenities and failure.

A book shelf CAN be a table if you lay it shelves down!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Everyone was saying at the beginning that being able to fly 5 X-Wings in a list with no upgrades would be too strong.

The whole "cost barrier is the thing keeping generics from being good" is the most widely held nonsense in the community. If a ships bad at 41, its bad at 40.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kirwhatever has one huge problem, its selling point is 3 Mod slots, and there is nothing good to fill them with. 1.0 it was reserved for engine upgrade and like, now its just place for some shield upgrades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, gadwag said:

5ks is significantly worse than 5 X-Wings

- no sfoils means no boost or linked boost (this is the big one)
- worse hull/shield ratio
- slightly worse dial (1 less move. Sure, 1 hard turns are great but so is the 1 straight)

At least when you are fielding them naked the poor upgrade slots on the k don't matter

The lack of boost is a huge point against ks in general. I wish they'd been given boost rather than roll, both for this reason and to give them a bit more of a distinct feel from the scyk. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T-65 got a boost with the configuration upgrade that gives it another action.

The Klingon just got the title fix from 1st edition that gives it 3 mod slots, and you can't put engine upgrade on it to give it boost, or an astromech slot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

T-65 got a boost with the configuration upgrade that gives it another action.

The Klingon just got the title fix from 1st edition that gives it 3 mod slots, and you can't put engine upgrade on it to give it boost, or an astromech slot.

It didn't even get that title fix right, since all the mods are full price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Matanui3 said:

It didn't even get that title fix right, since all the mods are full price.

Exactly my point, the X-wing got a fix, the Klingon did not. Thus the X-wing is better and the Klingon is still ghe'torDaq luSpet 'oH DaqlIj'e'!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played Talonbane in 2.0 with some success (top8 big SOS) and I think that Khiraxes have some potential but are overcosted by 1-2 points to be really decent. 

They are paying for 3 mod slots, but as for now there is nothing interesting there to put. 

However I can imagine mods that will boost Khiraxes power in future, so maybe they will shine at some point (similar to 1.0 Vectored Thrusters or Engine Upgrade)

As for 5 Khiraxes vs 5 X-wings crucial thing is lack of boost action: playing 5 generics is all about blocking opponent, and with boost + barrel roll you can block significantly more places (by a huge amount!) than with with only barell roll. 

Boost is also main thing making high Initiative X-wings better than high initiative Khiraxes (speaking only about chassis, not considering pilot abilities). Everyone knows how often Wegde is arc doing by opening s-foils and boosting out of arcs. 

Other things are: 

better hull/shields ratio (every initiative) 

linked actions (every initiative) 

torpedo slot vs missle slot (high initiative)

Edited by Oldpara

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From experience, 5 Kihraxz make for a pretty decent list.  You've got a lot of firepower, but are single modding those attack dice the vast majority of the time.  As a result, this is a notably better list, while still having a good selection of Kihraxz on the board.  Those Drea rerolls make all the difference, and double ion in a list makes for much more consistent control potential.

Drea Renthal (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (6)

Cartel Marauder (40)

Cartel Marauder (40)

Cartel Marauder (40)

Cartel Spacer (29)
Hardpoint: Cannon (0)
Ion Cannon (5)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

torpedo slot vs missle slot (high initiative)

This is a big one - missiles are decent on a natively 2 red dice platform and really pretty uninspiring on anything with 3 dice.  The lack of a 4 dice missile really does limit the usefulness of the missile slot for a lot of ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Matanui3 said:

It didn't even get that title fix right, since all the mods are full price.

It did essentially get a hull upgrade and vectored thrusters baked in for free, though.

 

4 hours ago, prauxim said:

The whole "cost barrier is the thing keeping generics from being good" is the most widely held nonsense in the community. If a ships bad at 41, its bad at 40.

Yes and no. When you get to the bottom end of the market, 1 point becomes increasingly important not because the ship in isolation is that much better or worse proportionately, but because it takes you over the 'threshold' of "...and I get another ship".

Ultimately generics are worse than equivalent aces, always should be and always will be. The only thing which can ever make them competitive is either trading the initiative, talent and pilot ability of the ace for other upgrades (ordnance, modifications, etc) or a pronounced numerical advantage. 5 ships with 3-dice attacks is one of those thresholds where you do become detectably more effective, because three aces can arc dodge or initiative kill a ship and you still have the numerical edge.

 

8 hours ago, Kehl_Aecea said:

That sounds like a small table from Ikea.

l1gwp22j3e821.jpg?width=638&height=334.0

 

1 hour ago, Jarval said:

This is a big one - missiles are decent on a natively 2 red dice platform and really pretty uninspiring on anything with 3 dice.  The lack of a 4 dice missile really does limit the usefulness of the missile slot for a lot of ships.

Agreed. Proton Rockets have some mileage for aces but everything else is generally better-suited for ships with only a 2-dice primary looking for a substitute primary weapon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×