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GreenDragoon

Resistance XXXx: three and a half X-wings

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8 minutes ago, Rodafowa said:

Oh nice! Yes, it sure was. If you hadn't taken those two damage when the front corner of the A-Wing crept into range of my lead ships in the opening round it might have ended very differently.

Yes quite unlucky to blank out at range 3 against a Y-wing, getting some shots with L'ulo might of swung it.

But credit where it is due, Luke pulled away and took him out with unanticipated move, it was well played! 

Plus your list Wedge, Luke, Dutch alpha strike was undefeated all day if I recall? Just needed that one hull on Luke to get me those half points but that's the way it goes. I was very happy to with the result.

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6 hours ago, Oldpara said:

I've tested variation of the squad:

Nien + PA, Black One

Wexley + Composure 

Bastian

Tallissan 

So more XXXa than XXXx but I must say it's really strong. I'll be playing with this. 

Oh...interesting.  I've had a Nien/Bastian/BSR/L'ulo list on my backburner for a while, but can't convince myself to get off of Poe to actually play it.

A couple things I'd suggest to the thread:

  • Don't be so beholden to Jess.  Passive mods are great, but an additional cost of her ability is at least one ship flying (somewhat) in formation with her.  It makes for a pretty good jousting duo, particularly if Bastian or Composure Snap is her wingmate, but if you run into something which outjousts that duo...well, balls.  Honestly, it's a "one-foward to victory" Rebel mindset which is likely holding you back.  
  • Try really hard to get BB droids into the list on the low initiative pilots and fly straight into the rocks, which hopefully you've clustered in the middle, kind of toward your side.
  • If one of your T-70s isn't Nien, Ello or Poe, you're probably going to outright lose to ace lists.  L'ulo isn't a closer at a highly competitive level.

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34 minutes ago, gennataos said:
  • If one of your T-70s isn't Nien, Ello or Poe, you're probably going to outright lose to ace lists.  L'ulo isn't a closer at a highly competitive level.

Black One title helps a lot against aces. With 3bank/straight +3tallon you can pull really crazy shenanigans, landing behind aces, leaving rest of the squad in front for hammer and anvil situation. 

And with Pattern Analyzer you got action after Tallon so shots are modified.

Lulo dies too quickly for my liking as he's obvious first target and his defense is weakest. For this reason I prefer Tallissan who isn't as much of a threat and has better defense so he does more good over the the long run, even if his ability procs seldomly. Besides he's cheaper so PA/Black One  on Nien fits in. 

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1 hour ago, gennataos said:

A couple things I'd suggest to the thread:

I had the idea for this list purely based on most amount of double modified 3dice attacks with T70s. That's all the thought that went into it from my part, and it was intended to be a good jousting list. @Tyhar7 played it much more, so he'll be better suited to reply.

@Oldpara's version looks more well rounded to me and better suited to actually win games, but at the cost of a worse initial joust.

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I had the idea for this list purely based on most amount of double modified 3dice attacks with T70s. That's all the thought that went into it from my part, and it was intended to be a good jousting list. @Tyhar7 played it much more, so he'll be better suited to reply.

@Oldpara's version looks more well rounded to me and better suited to actually win games, but at the cost of a worse initial joust.

Well the concerns here are better joust lists, and ace list.

It's certainly a strong joust list, and the low initiative isn't hampering it as much as you may think.

The thing is Jess and Bastian are getting their re-roll mods regardless of any initiative related advantage. So you don't have to worry about moving first and gauging distance for a target lock on an ace or higher ini platform. 

So my main concern is enduring a superior jousting list salvo. So that's really about turn zero considerations.

A combination of setting up favourable engagements, plus using L'ulo to flank, draw out a response and mitigate fire on the X-wings, is often enough to gain the advantage.

As for ace lists, because entering range first isn't a concern, it's advantage is now exclusively on Arc dodging, which I can now mitigate by creeping in and maintaining a loose staggered formation.

It's not exclusively a jousting list tho. This isn't a Tie swarm that needs to stay together or even start together. X-wing are great alrounders and I usually have no qualms breaking them up if needed.

Snap's ability makes him a great wingman for L'ulo. On a few occasions I've flown it as two pairs, later reforming into one.

The other thing about it is there isn't really any primary target in the list. Anyone of them can go down and it doesn't stop the list from being effective. L'ulo seems to catch the most concern but equally its the cheapest target. This often leads to my opponents taking shots of opportunity at the most available targets rather than concentrating fire over multiple rounds on biggest threat. Great for me as thats spreading the damage around. 

Having Nien, Ello or Poe in the mix just makes them target number one.

Althought the Nien, Wexly, Bastian, Talli list has me intrigued. I'm not a fan of Talli to be honest but this list might do really well with the Resistance transport in support.

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7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think that's a key point! It is a very flexible jousting list if that makes sense?

Concur with this.  I've flown it both a formation jouster, and split it up when necessary.  It can do well in both scenarios.

The Nien version is interesting and I may try it out this weekend (will report back), but I'm hesitant because Talli is soooo much less effective than L'ulo.  I've flown all the named A-wings extensively since Resistance dropped, and she's my least favorite pilot I think.

I do think finding room for Black One on Snap is a very interesting idea, particularly as cheap tech against Tripsilons.  I need to plot it out, but I think he can get totally clear on the first engage if they line up opposite him with something like a 3 straight>boost>3 Tallon.  That might make him vulnerable the next turn, have to see.

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5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I get what you guys are saying and see the versatility of the list.  I just want to, depending on your goals/expectations...express caution.  

I hear your points and they're valid, I'll keep them in mind.

 

2 hours ago, Mistborn_Jedi said:

The Nien version is interesting and I may try it out this weekend (will report back), but I'm hesitant because Talli is soooo much less effective than L'ulo.  I've flown all the named A-wings extensively since Resistance dropped, and she's my least favorite pilot I think.

 

You could Try replacing Temmin with Nien. Nien + PA, L'ulo + Heroic, Jess, Bastian. 199 points

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7 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

 

You could Try replacing Temmin with Nien. Nien + PA, L'ulo + Heroic, Jess, Bastian. 199 point

I actually think your 1point bid is a valid option vs simply adding heroic to Nien or crack to Lulo. 

You'd beat all the 5s at 200. 

That's the funny thing about bids:

199 beats all the "I don't care, 200" fives.

198 is almost useless, since you're only beating the people in the category above.

Then everyone else is bidding around 10 points, usually at 190. 

So then to beat those bidders you bid 11 at 189.  

It's weird. 

But yeah, definitely don't bid two points, or just add a 1pt. EPT. 

Edited by Bucknife

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I ran the version of the list @Oldpara suggested twice today.

I'm not totally convinced that losing L'ulo is worth it, but it is a strong option.  I was specifically playing against a buddy that has been running Tripsilons to get practice against it.  I had some specific ideas that I wanted to try and used the Nien version to at least some feel for it.  I want to run it against some other lists before I decide, so will put it on the table at the regular Wednesday night FLGS session.

My goal against Tripsilons in the first turn was to have a least one of his ships have no shots, and to maximize range and bonuses (obstructions & tokens) on defense.  To that end I played around with a number of things and I thought I had a good strategy.

The first game showed I needed a little more work.  He nuked Talli on the first turn, and all the breaks went his way over the course of the next 3 turns.  We stopped after turn 4 with Talli, Nien and Bastian all dead.  

After a small adjustment to the plan, game 2 went much better.  As planned he only got 2 shots the first turn, I managed to strip 6 shields off the non-Reinforced Ups and most importantly did not lose a ship.  He kept focusing on Talli for the next several turns while she ran (max blue move, Evade into a Boost each turn) and managed to live.  Nien took some damage the second turn as I expected -- his opening was to 4 straight, SLAM with Black One, 4K, Pattern Analyzer a Focus and then take the Ion.  He ends up taking a range 2 shot from Dormitz the first turn (lost 2 shields) and then is predictable on turn 2 due to the Ion.  He came out of Turn 2 with 3 hull left and was quite effective from there on, staying alive until the next to the last turn, but I'm going to look at some other options for him turn 1 against this monster.  Composure Snap continues to be one of my favorite ships to fly, he's just great!  In the end I won the game, killing Dormitz and 1 generic while losing Nien and Talli.  Tripsilons is a tough matchup for 4 ship lists, but our little XXXx is up to the challenge!

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5 hours ago, Mistborn_Jedi said:

I ran the version of the list @Oldpara

After a small adjustment to the plan, game 2 went much better.  As planned he only got 2 shots the first turn, I managed to strip 6 shields off the non-Reinforced Ups and most importantly did not lose a ship.  He kept focusing on Talli for the next several turns while she ran (max blue move, Evade into a Boost each turn) and managed to live.

Well, while being little bit worst overall as standalone ship Tallissan has some advantages over Lulo: Lulo with double action (so stress and 2 greens) would be dead way faster (maybe even 1st turn) while Tallissan has 4 greens from one Upsilon (his ability procs in 1st turn almost for sure). 

Not to mention price: you can't fit Black One Pattern Nien and Snap/Bastian etc having Lulo in squad. 

Speaking of Nien: bank3 + tallon3 or hard3 + tallon3 can place you in better position than 4fwd + 4k. Need some practice to pull it properly tho (final flanking position on the board edge seems nice, as Upsilons willing to turn against you are landing in awkward position in front of board edge) 

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Ok, I only acutally played this once on TTS, but how reliably does Temmin get TL+focus?

When I made my similar list I didn't think of the Composure + Temmin combo, which made it look like this:

Jessika Pava (52)    
    BB Astromech (3)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)       
Ship total: 55  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 4    
    
Lieutenant Bastian (48)    
    M9-G8 (7)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)      
Ship total: 55  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 4    
    
Red Squadron Expert (48)    
    Heroic (1)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)       
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 4    
    
L'ulo L'ampar (38)    
    Heroic (1)    
    Trick Shot (2)     
Ship total: 41  Half Points: 21  Threshold: 2    
    
    Total: 200   

What do you guys think?  The way I see it, Snap's pros are higher Initiative and self-sufficency as long as he can get a falied boost and a TL on his own, but here you have:
2 INI 3 ships, which makes moving easier; Bastian has M9-G8 shenanigans (he TL's Lulo or Red Squad at first, but he can do a lot of tricks with his TL switching bonanza).


 

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Thanks for posting up your list Green Dragoon.  I copied you and have been running it for the last couple of months and took it to Krayt Cup this past weekend.  This is my version:

Lieutenant Bastian — Integrated S-Foils, BB Astromech

Jessika Pava — Integrated S-Foils, BB Astromech 

Temmin Wexley — Composure, Integrated S-Foils

L'ulo L'ampar — Trickshot

 

I ended up 4-2 with it in the team tournament.  My 2 losses were close.  One was Lando, Wedge, Norra and the other was Lando, Wedge, Luke.  The action efficiency of those lists and the fact that they both move after all of my ships and shoot first was something I just couldn't quite overcome.  My wins all came against swarms.  A Howlrunner swarm, an Inferno Squad swarm, a Vader and Academy swarm, and a Y-wing swarm with ion turrets and Veteran Turret gunner.  You beat one tie swarm and guess what your team captain decides you get to do the rest of the day?  

This list is a lot of fun and a sneaky good jouster.

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Here's my variation:

Lieutenant Bastian — Integrated S-Foils

Jessika Pava — Integrated S-Foils, M9-G8

Temmin Wexley — Composure, Integrated S-Foils

L'ulo L'ampar

I'm using M9 to target lock my own ship, L'ulo, so he always has an attack reroll.  As a result, it makes more sense to put M9 on Jess since she won't need her target lock due to her reroll she can do while friendly ships are within 1.  All ships have the potential to be double modded except Jess, depends on friendly ships, and then L'ulo is getting one attack reroll.

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15 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Just saw that on listjuggler: The 1st and 3rd of this 32person australian store event were using this list, one of them being Travis Foss

Seems to be working well. One used BB on Jess and Lulo, the other used M9G8 on Bastian and Tallie+trick+crackshot.

@Tyhar7

Seems to be gaining some traction.

I'm still experimenting with the 7 points. At the moment I using tractor beam on Snap with the other 2 using R4's. 

@player2148077 Is an interesting option I had not considered for 4 x double mod.

 

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I finally had the chance to take a variation on this for a spin with my casual group this week. Holy crap on a cracker was this fun to fly. What I've posted below is the tweaked version. I had R2-HA on Bastian and no astro on Red. I also included Heroic on Greer and never triggered it once. I'm still playing with what talents, if any, I want to toss on the A-Wing.

Jessika Pava (52)
BB Astromech (3)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Lieutenant Bastian (48)
BB Astromech (2)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Red Squadron Expert (48)
Heroic (1)
BB Astromech (3)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Greer Sonnel (36)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 197

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Posted (edited)

Ive had this list in my builder for awhile, but never put it on the table til now.

Changed to though Zari cuz her ability just is crazy good, and she flys before snap to get in places for his composure. Not only that, but flying in formation, if I need to slow roll with 1s, zari can just bump and not be affected.

Lieutenant Bastian (48)
M9-G8 (7)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Jessika Pava (52)
BB Astromech (3)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Temmin Wexley (54)
Composure (1)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Zari Bangel (35)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

First game was a double scurg falcon list. Basically chewed up the low agi ships. M9g8 was phenominal like always on Bastian. I start by targeting zari so she gets mods as well. After damage, bastian uses it as defense for the squad. Turned 3 hits in eyeballs/blanks and converted 2 crits into hits. All four ships survived, loss half of snap and half of zari.

Second game was a vader/maarek/dutchess/scourge list. They setup to joust me. Bad decision. I saw the slowest move the tie could do was a 2 straight and boosted all ships forward, blocking the ships. Maarek dropped opening round. vader dropped a couple rounds later after vader tried a 3 tallon and missed landing it by a millimeter. Jess eventually went down. Then dutchess and scourge. 

M9g8 again turned many crits into hits, and a couple hits into blanks. Loss jess and half of zari. Speaking of zari, awesome ability. After the initial engagement where everyone blocked. Normally the awing would have to 3 bank to safety and shoot at range 2 or 3. Instead Zari just bumped right into scourge who 3 kturned right into zaris butt for a range 1 shot. Another time, i didnt want her to move, so I just dialed in a hard 1 and bumped knto snap. Basically a stop maneuver for an awing. Ha!

Edited by wurms

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I think this list might see a revival - scratch the A-wing. The problem IMO was that the Awing didn't really fit with the others as he moved too fast.

But Wave 4 brought us a substitute, nay, a Big Deal, who can replace Lulo:

Jessika Pava (51)
BB Astromech (3)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Lieutenant Bastian (48)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Temmin Wexley (54)
Composure (1)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Finn (29)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

The advantages of Finn:

  • happy to move close to Jess and Bastian, blocking Snap in
  • insane resilience! Perceptive means that he will likely take only one damage per turn! (heroic means you'll roll paint, and adding a focus result gives two evades per shot
  • great offense, almost always 3 hits, depending on the amount of focus tokens
  • can shoot before Bastian to help him get the target lock

Thoughts?

@Tyhar7@gennataos@Oldpara@Bucknife@wurms@Rodafowa@Mistborn_Jedi@arctic_rogue

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Posted (edited)

I think C-3P0 would be a better fit on Finn.  Cheaper, gives coordinate and doesn't "feel" much worse than double focus (haven't mathed it out).  I think I'd also drop Advanced Optics on him to make him super cheap, but tweaks can be tried there.  I'd lean closer to this.  This is my standard Snap, which I think is fantastic.

Jessika Pava (51)
BB Astromech (3)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Lieutenant Bastian (48)
BB Astromech (2)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Temmin Wexley (54)
Composure (1)
R2 Astromech (4)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Finn (29)
Heroic (1)
C-3PO (6)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

edit - Man, that seems jousty as ****.  Can even use Snap as a flanker with plenty of rerolls for Jess with Bastian and Finn nearby.

Edited by gennataos

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4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I think C-3P0 would be a better fit on Finn.  Cheaper, gives coordinate and doesn't "feel" much worse than double focus (haven't mathed it out).  I think I'd also drop Advanced Optics on him to make him super cheap, but tweaks can be tried there.  I'd lean closer to this.  This is my standard Snap, which I think is fantastic.

That is my go-to for any other list. But the 42pt version has crazy offense and defense!

Finn with Heroic and assuming he adds a focus result (because adding a blank is unfair in the comparison)

The offense of Finn with optics and perceptive and heroic is insane for a 42pt ship - and so is his defense! The only downside is the bad dial, but it does not matter as much in this list

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9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

That is my go-to for any other list. But the 42pt version has crazy offense and defense!

Finn with Heroic and assuming he adds a focus result (because adding a blank is unfair in the comparison)

The offense of Finn with optics and perceptive and heroic is insane for a 42pt ship - and so is his defense! The only downside is the bad dial, but it does not matter as much in this list

No fair, you went and did that maths.

That does look disgusting.  What about C-3P0 and optics?  I really like that coordinate option.

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