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Thanks FFG - no really

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So.... what you are saying is companies should hold all the power in the relationship, despite the consumer paying to keep their lights on? Lemme guess, you are one of the people who would also defend Bethesda for all of the complaints that Fallout 76 has.

#2waymutalrespect

Edited by Zeoinx

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19 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

So.... what you are saying is companies should hold all the power in the relationship, despite the consumer paying to keep their lights on? Lemme guess, you are one of the people who would also defend Bethesda for all of the complaints that Fallout 76 has.

#2waymutalrespect

Actually I'm saying the exact opposite, the whiners seem to think that FFG is the only one that can make anything possitive happen which is in fact a Lie. We the community can do tons of stuff without them and in fact they can do nothing without us

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There’s a difference between suppressing protest and keeping the protest where it belongs.  Personally I believe this is a conversation we’ve had a lot and should periodically continue to have until FFG acts differently.  But we should do it in a constructive way that doesn’t interfere with the forum’s appeal or other happier topics.  Because, as Clon says, we have a decent chunk of power too.  If every Armada player started seriously recruiting, I bet this community would grow by a third to half again minimum.

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 games live and die by the communities that play them not the company's that make them.  For exsample heroscape from my knowledge is a "dead" game, but out here there is a community that meets once a month and runs a tournament for 5 games, im not part of this community, but a dead game is aliv because of its community. Conversely when i was a senrior high school I wanted to get into Warhammer fantaisy, and the community was super unwelcoming and tocix so I never invested into it and well sells keept droping and we know what happened to that game, I never see anyone playing it ether, while i see other games that are "dead" still hit the table from time to time. I mean yeah im a little frustrated and i have said my piece, and movied no to continue and try and build my local community, and i suggest eveyone do the same, say your pice let it out, and then go back to building the community, so we can continue to enjoy this game we love, don't let it fester.

Edited by xero989

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I feel like the relationship between the community and ffg has become similar to that of parent and child.

They gave us many toys to play with, but as children are wont to, we are now bored with them and want new toys, if we dont get them we want to know at least when and what we are getting. In the meantime we throw temper tantrums.

FFG, like the super parents they are, put up with it but dont attempt to placate the children or tell them anything until the new toys are finalized. Sometimes they get sad that the children are mad about this treatment.

Of course in this analogy, we children pay the parents for the toys ourselves.

I for one will not let myself be turned into a temper throwing child by a bunch of super parents :-p.

 

Seriously, nothing will change by us providing valid, rational criticism and us telling them how we feel - they are at most mildly interested.

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18 hours ago, clontroper5 said:

If you don't have good things to say just keep it to yourself and give other poeple the opportunity to enjoy the game... 

 

This sentence is so wrong to me. While I do agree that we should not only have negativity on these boards and I also feel that FFG does a lot of things right. They made what is currenlty my favorite game to play for 1 thing. 
But to say people can't voice critiques or complaints is a bad thing. People usually learn a lot from mistakes, but to learn from it they need to know what it is they are doing wrong. 

I think the negative sounds would already be a lot less if we only got some messages from someone in FFG about the state of the SSD or the wave folliwing it. Something they can achieve with little effort and cost.

Also don't let some threads with a negative nature drive you away from a great game with an equally great player base/community. 

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15 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

cThere’s a difference between suppressing protest and keeping the protest where it belongs.  Personally I believe this is a conversation we’ve had a lot and should periodically continue to have until FFG acts differently.  But we should do it in a constructive way that doesn’t interfere with the forum’s appeal or other happier topics.  Because, as Clon says, we have a decent chunk of power too.  If every Armada player started seriously recruiting, I bet this community would grow by a third to half again minimum.

Agree with this, but have an issue with the last part. I am trying to get more friends into playing this game, but currently all will be with only my collection. As seriuosly buying into Armada is difficult at the moment even not accounting prices can by high for some folks. Most of the (web)shops around here only have a handfull of the expansions in stock with the rest unavailable and with much overlap between what the stores currently have in stock. That makes really getting into the game and recruiting more people way more difficult and sadly less effective.

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31 minutes ago, Revanur said:

Agree with this, but have an issue with the last part. I am trying to get more friends into playing this game, but currently all will be with only my collection. As seriuosly buying into Armada is difficult at the moment even not accounting prices can by high for some folks. Most of the (web)shops around here only have a handfull of the expansions in stock with the rest unavailable and with much overlap between what the stores currently have in stock. That makes really getting into the game and recruiting more people way more difficult and sadly less effective

I mean, I could be way off, but one new player per every 2-3 people trying to bring people in feels like a reasonable average.  That doesn’t mean it’s evenly distributed.  I’m sure it can be really difficult in some areas and you have my sympathies (personally I’d like to see the forum function as a sort of network for acquiring expansions some people don’t have reasonable access to.)

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18 hours ago, Revanur said:

Agree with this, but have an issue with the last part. I am trying to get more friends into playing this game, but currently all will be with only my collection. As seriuosly buying into Armada is difficult at the moment even not accounting prices can by high for some folks. Most of the (web)shops around here only have a handfull of the expansions in stock with the rest unavailable and with much overlap between what the stores currently have in stock. That makes really getting into the game and recruiting more people way more difficult and sadly less effective.

FFG stops doing articles for the game.  People grow worried.  With no new content, news, etc, players drift away to better supported products.  Players drift away, sales drop.  Sales drop and stores stop carrying product.  I've witnessed 3 stores in my state drop support for Armada all together.  All of which had decent numbers at one time.  Few of these players were forum users.

The problem wasn't negativity on the forum, it was FFG pretending like the game doesn't exist.  People desire all things to have meaning.  There has to be a reason for everything that happens around them.  If a company stops communicating about a product, doesn't release news about it, doesn't release updates, doesn't give an explanation for going dark...then people create their own reasons.  Those reasons span a wide range of topics, but usually center around the product being dead.  As friends, other players, other people in the community ask about Armada, the rumors start to swirl around and entire communities begin to believe that a product is dead.  I've even heard people outright claim that FFG has announced that Armada is canceled.  This is obviously not true, but with each re-telling of the rumor, embellishments are added.

FFG releases no info on Armada.  It at least appears like Armada production has been sidelined to a degree to produce other products.  Expansions are getting harder to find.  It's not hard to understand why the game looks dead to some.

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On 1/5/2019 at 1:29 PM, BiggsIRL said:

To be fair, I think I spent most of my Armada money on other FFG products...

[looks at the massive pile of Legion and 2.0] I have NO idea what you're talking about. 
 

On 1/5/2019 at 7:15 PM, Drasnighta said:

The answer to a lack of respect being given is not to throw more disrespect right back.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Eye for an eye may make the whole world blind but mutually assured destruction keeps the peace. I say you reap what you sow. They've been planting the seeds of discontent for Armada for a looooong time, slow FAQs, delayed releases, lack of content, lack of communication, and at this point they've clearly put us so far on the back burner they can't even keep necessary packs in stock. 

So if they want to sow discontent, discontent is what they'll get. And based on their reaction to the tremendous amount they got smacked with on new years, we may even see some results. They may not care privately but getting publicly humiliated by their consumer base makes business look bad. 

 

Edited by Darth Sanguis

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27 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I wholeheartedly disagree. Eye for an eye may make the whole world blind but mutually assured destruction keeps the peace. I say you reap what you sow. They've been planting the seeds of discontent for Armada for a looooong time, slow FAQs, delayed releases, lack of content, lack of communication, and at this point they've clearly put us so far on the back burner they can't even keep necessary packs in stock. 

So if they want to sow discontent, discontent is what they'll get. And based on their reaction to the tremendous amount of discontent they got smacked with on new years, we may even see some results. They may not care privately but getting publicly humiliated by their consumer base makes business look bad. 

While I do agree with the sentiment, I've always felt the communities complaints were pointless. FFG didn't care and still doesn't. All the ******* about flotillas, activations, and Rieekan Aces yielding nothing until wave 7 and the most recent FAQ. Everyone begging for new content and community engagement did nothing. FFG never gave a **** about listening to the community. 

I honestly think these threads are stupid. The only eyes you will be poking out is each others because FFG isn't even in the room. I've come to realize Armada is driven by the community, not FFG. People are making their own ships, upgrades, models, FAQs, and campaigns. It just sucks for the people who want to play competitively because FFG won't be doing much for that anymore.  

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7 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

While I do agree with the sentiment, I've always felt the communities complaints were pointless. FFG didn't care and still doesn't. All the ******* about flotillas, activations, and Rieekan Aces yielding nothing until wave 7 and the most recent FAQ. Everyone begging for new content and community engagement did nothing. FFG never gave a **** about listening to the community. 

I honestly think these threads are stupid. The only eyes you will be poking out is each others because FFG isn't even in the room. I've come to realize Armada is driven by the community, not FFG. People are making their own ships, upgrades, models, FAQs, and campaigns. It just sucks for the people who want to play competitively because FFG won't be doing much for that anymore.  

By eye for an eye, I certainly don't mean coming here to complain. The forums are merely moderated, I doubt much, if any,  that goes on here ever makes it to anyone. If anything, coming here and posting about it is venting. If there was ever a community of people to understand the frustration, it's the Armada fan base. 

No, I mean taking it to them. Openly talking about buying into competitors games on Facebook posts and calling them out on tweets. Alone, it doesn't amount to much, but when enough people start making them look like idiots on a public platform like Facebook and twitter, they react. ****, I'd go as far as heckling them during GenCon if were up to me. I can be just as irritating to them as they are to me. They aren't going to ignore us. I don't care if I have to mail every single one of them a glitter gram. 

Edited by Darth Sanguis

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3 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

All the ******* about flotillas, activations, and Rieekan Aces yielding nothing until wave 7 and the most recent FAQ. Everyone begging for new content and community engagement did nothing. FFG never gave a **** about listening to the community. 

 

I mean, they did fix Rieekan.  They tried first with Sloane, then learned that wasn’t enough and got the nerf bat out.  Pryce was an answer to Rieekan and activation spam, the flotilla and relay nerfs were effective...  It all seems like something they were planning for a while and thought out carefully.  Their comm silence may suck, but this was done right by someone who cared.

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1 minute ago, TrueMandalorian said:

Wow, comparing a company to a cheating wife....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhhahahagavabahahahahahsgfjdjfhagabdfxhsnahahahahah!😆😂

it's called an analogy, gone rather over your head it seems... nevermind they say ignorance is bliss 

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On 1/6/2019 at 12:39 PM, n815e said:

If they never released another thing, I will be happily playing this for years.

 

Agree! I just got into Armada, and I plan to buy all the current products (and any new ones) over the next several years. If that means buying peices to a “dead” game, or collecting from a growing flow, I’m down. It’s fun, and I mean Fun.

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An analogy only works when things are comparable my friend. Analogy works because of the symbolism held within it.

I’ll voice my point by saying your analogy is like comparing apples to oranges. My analogy works because I’m highlighting that apples and oranges look, smell, and taste completely different and your analogy of a company (that owes us nothing) is like a cheating wife (that did owe us a kept promise), which aren’t the same thing at all. Not as I see it at least. Maybe you and I have a different view on marriage. I think it’s safe to say we do about what a company does and doesn’t owe us.

It made me laugh. I thank you for that. 😁

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Having worked in the really real world for several smaller companies, there is an axiom I know to be true about marketing/customers, and I know it's true because every business that I've ever worked for has pretty much shared the same wisdom in one form or another:

It is easier to keep a customer than to find a new one.

Ergo, once you've gone through the pain of "getting" a customer, it behooves you to keep them.

I'm not upset with FFG about anything, nor salty. I bought x dollars worth of plastic and cardboard with my dollars and they delivered it to me. All they owe me when I spend my money is the thing I spent my money on. And they have delivered that.

I am baffled, however, by their lack of follow through.  It seems they put a great deal of time and energy and resources and development into Armada.  I know the game was selling like hotcakes when it first came out and there was a lot of interest at my FLGS.  The game slowly picked up traction, but seemed to die out a year ago or more due to a combination of mostly slow releases, but I do think there are a fair bit of people that got soured on Demolisher ruining everyone's day back when Demolisher and Rymerballs reigned supreme. 

In any event, assuming FFG does things in its own best interest, I can't really fathom the development time and lack of attention showed to Armada and other games. The demand is (or at least, was) obviously there for new content, and they seemed to go so soft on that.

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2 hours ago, TrueMandalorian said:

Agree! I just got into Armada, and I plan to buy all the current products (and any new ones) over the next several years. If that means buying peices to a “dead” game, or collecting from a growing flow, I’m down. It’s fun, and I mean Fun.

Hey man, if you just got into the game then perhaps take a step back when the people who been in for many years voice their complaints. They have seen how things have evolved and been maintained since the beginning and their opinions and worries is worth taking into account for the future of the game.

Im getting back to armada myself, everything is new and great and im having a blast but I do find it concerning how low priority the game seem to have at FFG. If they dont care, the community will stop caring and eventually youll have a dead game. Still enjoyable for sure but a game without support quickly turns into an underground hobby without great and active forums, discussions and stores.

People are still playing BFG yet it cant be considered alive and well and def not the state i wanna see the Armada community end up in.

 

Btw, your notion about how companies owe its customers nothing, of course they do. They owe us what we owe them; a fair amount of trust and respect. Aside from the money/product transaction that is.

Edited by Attackmack

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On 1/4/2019 at 8:42 PM, Cboerger said:

Thank you for putting up with all the negativity people spew on these threads. I know that you’re just folks trying to put an honest day’s work in and trying to work towards something that people will find fun before going home at the end of your day. It can’t be great seeing people crap on that with all the “what have you done for me lately” sentiments.

I generally agree with your post, but this part bugs me a lot.  Wall of text incoming in 3... 2.... 1...

I've spent literally thousands of dollars by now on Armada between model purchases and travel across the country specifically to attend Regionals, Store Champs, GenCon, NoVa etc.  I love Armada dearly, it's the only tabletop game I play competitively any more.  I've done a lot to bring people into this game and help grow the playing community in my area.

Those efforts are not helped by months going by without any new product announcements or articles,  major products regularly going out of print, and the utterly insane cost of entry for the starter kit and high cost of many subsequent expansion purchases.  These are legitimate concerns that impact the health of the game and the playing community.  One of the major causes for growth in Armada over the last year has been, frankly, the periodic firesales of retailers like Amazon and Barnes & Noble clearing out their excess gaming stock at cost or even at a loss and flooding the market with cheap core sets.  When the SSD releases in the next few months large portions of the stock will be purchased not by Armada players but instead general Star Wars nerds looking to add one of the largest official model releases ever to their collections.

As in many places around the world, gaming stores in my area (San Francisco Bay Area region) really exploded thanks to the efforts of companies like Wizards of the Coast, Games Workshop, and FFG to actively promote local gaming stores as hobby centers for playing games and meeting other gamers.  Nearly every store manager I've spoken to from mom & pop hobby stores all the way to GW Black Shirts has noted that collectible games such as X-Wing and Armada need a steady stream of new content to keep players invested.  And FFG has certainly practiced this with X-Wing 2.0 and Legion over the past year, introducing new product to buy or fantasize over almost monthly. EVERY ONE OF THEM has noted to me how Armada has repeatedly waxed and waned in popularity with the release of new content and it's easy to observe in weekly game night attendance too.  On the other hand, nearly every store has a thriving X-Wing scene or Games Workshop hobby group and even places that aren't technically tabletop game stores run weekly Friday Night Magic events.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.  I criticize FFG's handling of Armada because I love Armada as a game and I love that FFG has so many talented, passionate people working on it.  People come here to FFG's official forums and complain about the poor communication because they are trying to communicate their love and passion for Armada to FFG and their concern that it might not survive in their gaming community. 

And as long as they are doing so in a respectful manner I am in full support of them.

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