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Nheko

Samurai Heritage question

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So I rolled on the Samurai Heritage table for my Unicorn Character and got Famous Deed: 10: a boat or estate. Being an Unicorn I chose the estate, but what does that mean? Only the deed of the land, or does it includes a house? Does it comes with servants? Have someone rolled this before?

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Not sure if there's specific/in depth descriptions for the heritage charts, but it sounds like something to discover with your GM.

Could be a home base of sorts for you and the party, or it could be a quest to reclaim the land/keep from some unwanted residents.

They seem to have left alot for open interpretation which I like, and afaik this is one of those cases

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Indeed. It's deliberately open-ended. But I'd suggest that this is something the GM should figure out with the PC(s) - having responsibility for an estate can either be central to a campaign plot, or be managed by a Karo (sort of castellan/vizier) in your absence - but even then, you should work it into the story - both in the form of needs, and it offering you benefits (the income from the estate, for example, or the use of NPCs associated with it, can be a nice asset to the party even if the land itself is on the other side of the empire).

 

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Thanks. 

I already started daydreaming about how it will look and what I will like to add to the estate: a shrine, a nice garden, outside tea house, koi pond of course a stable, reinforce the structure in case of bandits... who will take care of it, taxes to be paid, this so cool! 😎 

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5 minutes ago, Nheko said:

Thanks. 

I already started daydreaming about how it will look and what I will like to add to the estate: a shrine, a nice garden, outside tea house, koi pond of course a stable, reinforce the structure in case of bandits... who will take care of it, taxes to be paid, this so cool! 😎 

Indeed. Having a reasonably fleshed out 'base' adds a lot to the feel of a campaign, even if it's just the odd letter from home. Even better if you get to stop there en route to a destination partway through a campaign.

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rules for estates are not yet out in 5E.

That said... some math for you to consider.

The average rice farmer is taxed at 50% of his average production, and sustains himself. The provincial daimyō probably gets half of that. 

A samurai's upkeep can, in theory, go as low as 3 koku per year. It's not likely, tho'.

Looking at 2E's Gentry advantage...

A village upkeeps the samurai, their spouse and children, plus a yoriki, plus 10 ashigaru, plus a surplus of 5+1d10 koku, +1-3 koku per "holding" (crafthall) inside, twice a year. That's simple enough... 


Some more realistic figures, all per year. A family counting as 3-8 peasants worked 10-40 tan (1 tan ≅ 0.25 acre ≅ 0.1 hectares). 1 tan produces about 1.1 koku per year. Tax rates varied widely, but the median and mode are both right about 50%, and the typical farm about 15 tan, so 16.5 koku per farm, and probably 15-16 farms per village, for about 250 koku in, and 230 tan under cultivation at any given point, and about 300 tan of fields.( 1/4 is fallow). Not counting the typical 1/4 tan per family gardens. half that is taxed, so 125 koku feeding the village, 60 to the holder, 65 to the holder's lord.

Samurai food is probably about 1 bu a month, or 2.4 koku. Stipends are likely 4-8 koku per year. So, 6-10 koku per samurai..or 24 to 40 koku per year.

there are likely 4 samurai - holder & spouse, yoriki & spouse — the surplus is what's left... average 10 koku. 5 per harvest.

This nicely matches 2E...

Income per harvest should be TN 1, providing 5 + 2 × bonus successes per harvest. Which skill is a GM call...

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I’m equally impressed and grateful for this @AK_Aramis. This is really good and helpful information. Now I have something to work from:

Since we are a party of three I can talk with my companions and see if they want to be my Yoriki as part of their Giri. And the cool thing is that we have a Base of èlife  frohas m the start. Not to mention that now I have   some extra money to start improving it!

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Keep in mind: any meaningful improvement should cost at least 20 times the  average income... otherwise the return on investment is high enough that everyone should be doing so until the RoI drops from inflation. 

And, I've done the research on it for my own reasons, so why not share what I learned? Glad you found it useful.

 

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On 1/4/2019 at 7:21 PM, AK_Aramis said:

rules for estates are not yet out in 5E.

That said... some math for you to consider.

The average rice farmer is taxed at 50% of his average production, and sustains himself. The provincial daimyō probably gets half of that. 

A samurai's upkeep can, in theory, go as low as 3 koku per year. It's not likely, tho'.

Looking at 2E's Gentry advantage...

A village upkeeps the samurai, their spouse and children, plus a yoriki, plus 10 ashigaru, plus a surplus of 5+1d10 koku, +1-3 koku per "holding" (crafthall) inside, twice a year. That's simple enough... 


Some more realistic figures, all per year. A family counting as 3-8 peasants worked 10-40 tan (1 tan ≅ 0.25 acre ≅ 0.1 hectares). 1 tan produces about 1.1 koku per year. Tax rates varied widely, but the median and mode are both right about 50%, and the typical farm about 15 tan, so 16.5 koku per farm, and probably 15-16 farms per village, for about 250 koku in, and 230 tan under cultivation at any given point, and about 300 tan of fields.( 1/4 is fallow). Not counting the typical 1/4 tan per family gardens. half that is taxed, so 125 koku feeding the village, 60 to the holder, 65 to the holder's lord.

Samurai food is probably about 1 bu a month, or 2.4 koku. Stipends are likely 4-8 koku per year. So, 6-10 koku per samurai..or 24 to 40 koku per year.

there are likely 4 samurai - holder & spouse, yoriki & spouse — the surplus is what's left... average 10 koku. 5 per harvest.

This nicely matches 2E...

Income per harvest should be TN 1, providing 5 + 2 × bonus successes per harvest. Which skill is a GM call...

That really does put the numbers from the City of Lies box into context - the PCs get up to the entire output of 2 villages: an Imperial tonne of cash up front to be the FBI for Ryoko Owari.

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On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 11:31 PM, Nheko said:

Since we are a party of three I can talk with my companions and see if they want to be my Yoriki as part of their Giri.

Bear in mind that the steadholder's Karo or the Village Yoriki will be in post in no small way to be 'person who keeps law, order and management when the boss isn't around' - meaning that such a character emphatically wouldn't be accompanying the player off on adventures.

Fine if the bulk of the campaign is going to be set in and around the estate, possibly not the best idea if not.

@AK_Aramis - thanks for that. A farming family farming a minimal sized farm producing enough to feed themselves (as that's theoretically what 1 koku is, isn't it?) and ten similar families is a nice rule of thumb.

I'd agree on the income-per-harvest being varied on a skill check. It gives the GM an easy place to drop in TN modifiers (for the environment), and reflect the skill of the workers or their managers (probably labour, for the most part?)

 

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

@AK_Aramis - thanks for that. A farming family farming a minimal sized farm producing enough to feed themselves (as that's theoretically what 1 koku is, isn't it?) and ten similar families is a nice rule of thumb.

They're not producing "just enough"... they're producing double their own needs or more; half the kokudaka is expected to be turned over for taxes. One person can grow 2 koku on one tan per year; 3 koku per year if in the south. Note also, 10 tan is workable by 1 man; 40is workable by 3-4 adults.

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Bear in mind that the steadholder's Karo or the Village Yoriki will be in post in no small way to be 'person who keeps law, order and management when the boss isn't around' - meaning that such a character emphatically wouldn't be accompanying the player off on adventures.

Fine if the bulk of the campaign is going to be set in and around the estate, possibly not the best idea if not.

Thank you for your information @Magnus Grendel.

Even though the campaign might start in another place it will definitely will be set in the estate eventually.

You know, getting this event in the Samurai Heritage table can make your life a little easier if you were playing a Hombrew Minor Clan campaign.

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8 hours ago, Nheko said:

Thank you for your information @Magnus Grendel.

Even though the campaign might start in another place it will definitely will be set in the estate eventually.

You know, getting this event in the Samurai Heritage table can make your life a little easier if you were playing a Hombrew Minor Clan campaign.

In many cases, a courtier or shugenja can fill in when the bushi go off to war. If there's a temple, the monks can serve as peacekeepers, too.

 

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