"If you are damaged..."

[JohnBoo 62]

Abilities like Wullffwarro for example, when exactly are you considered damaged? When you lose a shield, or when the ship takes a damage card?

Arguing with a 15yo is not fun, when you can't point to a place in the rulebook...."I took a hit and my shields are damaged!!!!"

 

[Innese 2,371]

8 minutes ago, JohnBoo said:

Abilities like Wullffwarro for example, when exactly are you considered damaged? When you lose a shield, or when the ship takes a damage card?

Arguing with a 15yo is not fun, when you can't point to a place in the rulebook...."I took a hit and my shields are damaged!!!!"

 

Suffering damage = Removing shields & assigning damage cards.

Being damaged = 1 or more damage cards assigned.

Page 8 of Rules Ref, Damage

Edited January 3, 2019 by Innese

[JohnBoo 62]

2 minutes ago, Innese said:

Suffering damage = Removing shields & assigning damage cards.

Being damaged = 1 or more damage cards assigned.

Thank you for the response, Innese - but it still doesn't clear my question up. Is not suffering damage, in fact, being damaged?

[thespaceinvader 17,464]

8 minutes ago, JohnBoo said:

Thank you for the response, Innese - but it still doesn't clear my question up. Is not suffering damage, in fact, being damaged?

No.

Damaged is a keyword meaning 'has at least 1 damage card'.  It does not mean 'has suffered damage' - both because shields exist, and because you can be Damaged (have a card) and still have shields, either by regenning after taking a card, or by Seyn Marana's effect.

 

It could be called 'herbleflerp' for all the relevance the word used has to its meaning in the rules structure.

[JohnBoo 62]

The magic answer is the keyword in the online rules reference, provided by Innese, not the rulebook. It is as I suspected and played, but only having the rulebook on hand during the game, my son playing of Wullffwarro preferred the shield loss as damage! lol   Thanks everyone!

[theBitterFig 7,390]

Damaged = a state.  Explained above as having 1 or more damage cards.

Suffering Damage = an event.  When it takes at least 1 hit or crit damage, even if it still has shields.

//

If a card asks about a state (Is Wullffwarro damaged?), it is referring to having damage cards.

If a card asks about an event (Did Lieutenant Tavson suffer damage?), it is referring to taking the damage at this moment.

[Tvboy 3,430]

The actual rules reference guide was not included with your core set, it can be found here and also accessed through the X-Wing 2nd edition web page. There you will find the answer to all your questions, like "what does damaged mean?", which you can find on page 8.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/2a/57/2a57fdb2-e13f-4d58-b9db-bb082dd23dcc/swzrulesreference_v102.pdf

[N3-GR1 0]

What if Tavson is destroyed by a higher ps ship: does he get the chance to spend a charge for an extra action?

Coordinate or jam before dying could help

[emeraldbeacon 1,436]

3 minutes ago, N3-GR1 said:

What if Tavson is destroyed by a higher ps ship: does he get the chance to spend a charge for an extra action?

Coordinate or jam before dying could help

I don't see why not (stress notwithstanding).  While he'd be "destroyed", he's not removed until after the end of the Initiative bracket, meaning he should be able to respond with his action before floating off into oblivion.

Edited January 9, 2019 by emeraldbeacon

[N3-GR1 0]

7 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I don't see why not (stress notwithstanding).  While he'd be "destroyed", he's not removed until after the end of the Initiative bracket, meaning he should be able to respond with his action before floating off into oblivion.

Because the killer ship has higher ps, so the initiative bracket could close before Tavson triggers.

The rules reference states that the ship is removed from the game immediately after being destroyed. Being destroyed is not an ability that goes into the queue.

Additionally, the rules ref states that if an event triggers after a ship is destroyed, the effect takes place. Tavson doesn't have abilities regarding being destroyed, but only taking damage. Is it the same in this case?

Thanks for the replies

[emeraldbeacon 1,436]

37 minutes ago, N3-GR1 said:

The rules reference states that the ship is removed from the game immediately after being destroyed.

Quite the opposite:

• Page 5, under the topic Attack, it states:  "If a ship is destroyed during the Engagement Phase, the ship is not removed until all ships of the attacker’s initiative have engaged."
• Page 9, under Destroying Ships, it states:  "If an effect triggers after a ship is destroyed, the effect resolves immediately before the ship is removed."

Since Tavson's ability can activate when he suffers damage, even if the damage would destroy him, his ability can be added to the queue.  Because of how and when it triggered, it would have to resolve before the attacker's engagement ends, which means he would still be on the board.

Additionally, remember that damage is suffered one result at a time; Unless Tavson was sitting on one hull remaining, he could trigger on the first damage suffered, resolve, THEN proceed to take the remaining damage.

[Ryfterek 868]

42 minutes ago, N3-GR1 said:

The rules reference states that the ship is removed from the game immediately after being destroyed. Being destroyed is not an ability that goes into the queue.

RR, p.9:

• If a ship is destroyed during the Engagement Phase, it is removed after all ships that have the same initiative as the currently engaged ship have engaged, which is called simultaneous fire
• If an effect triggers after a ship is destroyed, the effect resolves 
immediately before the ship is removed.
• A destroyed ship’s abilities remain active until that ship is removed unless the ability specifies a different timing for the effect to end, such as “until the end of the Engagement Phase.” Such effects remain active until the end of the specified time.

An example of these rules in action is that Biggs, when attacked by a swarm, even if destroyed with the first shot from said swarm, will be able to draw hits from all consecutive attacks, until all pieces of the swarm (engaging at given initiative) have engaged and the game steps down to the next initiative value.

If this interaction works, there's no reason whatsoever for Thanisson not to.

[theBitterFig 7,390]

There's another thing to note: Tavson's ability almost surely happens during the Aftermath step of the attack process (per Quickdraw's ability, after-damage effects which happen during attacks are resolved in the Aftermath step), when the Defending player triggers abilities which are not attacks.  This happens while the destroying ship is still in the process of their attack, and even if it was the only ship at that initiative step, Tavson would trigger.

[Jo Jo 4,612]

Also, note you can be "Critically" damaged if your ship has a face up damage card. As far as I know though, there isn't any card that interacts with that distinction, but there could be one in the future.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Jo Jo

[N3-GR1 0]

Thanks for the replies.

My doubts were on how to interpret "effects that trigger after a ship is destoyed", because Tavson's trigger is after suffering damage, not after destruction. I thought the rules were referencing exactly to abilities like Resistance Chewbacca's.

Additionally, since I'm italian, I use italian cards, in which Tavson says "after you suffer damages", plural. Which is the correct version? Damage or damages? And.. can I trigger after each single point of damage, potentially taking 2 extra actions from a single attack?

However, I think we all want an updated FAQ (Tavson+Baffle is an example)!

Edited January 21, 2019 by N3-GR1
Typo

[meffo 968]

1 hour ago, N3-GR1 said:

Thanks for the replies.

My doubts were on how to interpret "effects that trigger after a ship is destoyed", because Tavson's trigger is after suffering damage, not after destruction. I thought the rules were referencing exactly to abilities like Resistance Chewbacca's.

Additionally, since I'm italian, I use italian cards, in which Tavson says "after you suffer damages", plural. Which is the correct version? Damage or damages? And.. can I trigger after each single point of damage, potentially taking 2 extra actions from a single attack?

However, I think we all want an updated FAQ (Tavson+Baffle is an example)!

damage is always dealt one at a time, so tavson gets the opportunity to perform an action for every damage he takes. this means he can take several crits and repair one of them before the next one is dealt. if he takes two damage, he can for example first jam when the first damage is dealt - and then coordinate when the second damage is dealt.