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Is 4th edition discussed here?

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10 minutes ago, Franwax said:

I don’t know if you got a reply through other channels and I am no authority on the question but I haven’t seen 4e related threads on this forum. Sorry. 

you sure rolled a good courtesy check. a skill i am sorely lacking in :D

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Posted (edited)

Personally I would enjoy a few 4e discussions as I generally buy the new editions of any RPG quite late into the cycle and sometimes I just stay on older ones if I find some big issues with the newer ones or still have a group with which I play the older version still and don't want to force them on the new one. Lore discussions are not specific for an edition generally and rules questions could theoretically just be tagged with something like "hey this is about 4e or so". But that is all of course not for me to decide.

EDIT: Also each new thread needs AFAIK to be green lit by a mod. So if it it's not okay, it would just not be opened to public.

Edited by Nachtphysik

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From my experience, The few 4th edition post I have seem have been deleted by the Forum Mods.

Now I don't know if this is because they went of the rails or its just a ban on 4th edition post in general.

But it has been a trend.

So I would probably say no.

I would also say it would depend on what the discussion was about.

If you are looking to bash 5th then no.

If you are looking for a discussion on possible house rules or just how a mechanic works then it depends on the Mod.  

 

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3 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

From my experience, The few 4th edition post I have seem have been deleted by the Forum Mods.

Now I don't know if this is because they went of the rails or its just a ban on 4th edition post in general.

But it has been a trend.

So I would probably say no.

I would also say it would depend on what the discussion was about.

If you are looking to bash 5th then no.

If you are looking for a discussion on possible house rules or just how a mechanic works then it depends on the Mod.  

 

I checked all pages - the three 4E threads I recall from after the switch from the Beta forum are no longer present.

They seemed tolerated during the beta, but the beta forum is closed.

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Posted (edited)

I don't see why they would be removed though.

As long as folks aren't using other editions to bash 5e I can't see them taking issue.

I mean, do they ban posts about AEG era lore n such? Just because its not FFG-created content doesn't mean it's not FFG-owned content.

Unless a mod explicitly says you can only talk about FFG era content I'd assume it's cool to talk about anything l5r/rpg related.

Edited by Arolem
Fixed a word

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From the perspective of a new L5R player (like me), I'm not looking forward to the confusion regarding rules and lore, if there were multiple editions discussed together all the time. Let alone getting story/lore spoiled because, as I understand it, FFG took us back in time from the previous timeline(s?), and are using a mix of old lore, adjusted lore and completely new lore.

It's enough that I had to guess that "5e" meant "FFG's edition". It's also enough that veterans occasionally reference older versions when helping other veterans wrapping their heads around the new rules, or when they try to highlight what's new/different in the lore (which are two very legitimate reasons to make these references).

If there's a need to discuss 4e or other older editions, I'd suggest a separate dedicated forum/subforum, just like the "hourserules" get, to avoid confusion as much as possible.

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On 1/2/2019 at 12:31 AM, Arolem said:

I don't see why they would be removed though.

While they own 4th the books are no longer available and therefore ebay becomes their competitor in this regard. Why make it easier for people to play a version of the game that impacts the sales of your product? I think it's perfectly fair that they remove talk of it from this forum. I want 5th to be as much of  a success as it can be, so FFG will give it as much support, attention and money as it deserves. If 5th is what we have, let's let FFG make it the best it can be.

Edited by Bazakahuna

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11 hours ago, Bazakahuna said:

While they own 4th the books are no longer available 

They're available electronically only, but they are available.

One could, if one was suitably motivated, take the PDF to a local POD provider and get a printout. 

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On 1/18/2019 at 6:58 AM, Bazakahuna said:

While they own 4th the books are no longer available and therefore ebay becomes their competitor in this regard. Why make it easier for people to play a version of the game that impacts the sales of your product? I think it's perfectly fair that they remove talk of it from this forum. I want 5th to be as much of  a success as it can be, so FFG will give it as much support, attention and money as it deserves. If 5th is what we have, let's let FFG make it the best it can be.

They have a full product list available digitally for every edition online. All l5r rpg material is owned and sold by ffg. If they didn't want to have "competing" product they wouldn't make the older stuff available.

Physical copies are only going to be found second hand, though. But you can't say that those are competing with 5e. Thrift stores and pawn shops aren't direct competitors for anyone/any product.

There's no "official" place to find physical copies and there's no official support for the product, either. It's like saying that wotc doesn't allow talk of 1e-4e because they impact the sales of 5e. It doesn't quite work like that, afaik.

If people have questions of rules/lore from previous editions I see no harm in them asking. Add to that there has been no official response from ffg or the forum mod despite being pinged for it, so I think folks are in the clear.

I think the 5e community can be accommodating for others within the larger l5r community. This responses might be fewer, but this might be one of the better places to get answers for any edition.

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2 hours ago, Arolem said:

It's like saying that wotc doesn't allow talk of 1e-4e because they impact the sales of 5e. It doesn't quite work like that, afaik.

It's a bit more subtle than that, I think. I haven't been to the WotC community pages since 5th edition, but during 4th edition the previous edition section was definitely getting tucked away more and more. My impression was that WotC wanted to attract the players of older editions in order to expose them to the new one, to get them to convert and buy new products, but definitely avoid giving the impression that older editions were still thriving. There was more openness during 3rd, certainly 3.0, but 3rd was basically operation Revive the Dying Brand (the Open Game Licence was another aspect). TSR had run D&D into the ground. Fourth edition benefitted from the resurgence 3rd had accomplished, but also had to compete with Pathfinder.

So, it's a bit of a balancing act. Appealing to older players works, but only if you convert them. You don't want to be reinforcing the idea that the older editions are just as worthwhile as your shiny new one. I'd even say this is trickier for FFG than it is for WotC: despite all the mechanical differences, every edition of D&D still feels like the same game; 5th edition L5R - to me at least - is not the same game as the previous editions. Fifth is about samurai drama, dealing with strife, trying to reconcile your giri with your ninjo. Older editions are about samurai adventures, finding glory for you and your clan. I have players that really can't get into the right mindset to play L5R 5th. They absolutely don't enjoy it, regardless of the system - it's the supposed object of the game that doesn't interest them. As much as some of these same players disliked 4E D&D's system, they still enjoyed the game.

edit - tl;dr: if your players want to remove strife through a passion but you don't think a check is appropriate, just make them 'earn' a check by turning the use of the passion into something interesting and meaningful

Edited by nameless ronin

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4e D&D was the best D&D. It needed a bit of cleaning up and 5e improved on a lot of things (advantages, simpler rules etc). but 4th had the best characters! so much cool "builds" for tactical fights.

back in L5R...
we started our campaign,
I have player who did not read the rules etc and did the character creation with his "guts".
Ended up with a Kaito Shrine Keeper,
Void 3, Air 3, Water 2, Earth 1, Fire 1.
hes got
4 endurance, 6 composure, 3 vigilance, 4 focus.

the other player is an Iuchi Shugenja
Earth 3, Water 3, Void 2, Fire 1, Air 1.
hes got
8 endurance, 12 composure, 2 vigilance, 2 focus.
got the samurai heritage that gives a technique; took striking as earth.
took tetsubo as a weapon.

I don't know what to tell the Kaito player... aside from; Good luck, your character is nearly useless for the first 5-6 sessions.
 

Edited by Avatar111

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1 hour ago, Avatar111 said:

I don't know what to tell the Kaito player... aside from; Good luck, your character is nearly useless for the first 5-6 sessions.

Maybe not that many sessions... two sessions at 6xp apiece should take care of Earth 2 and Fire 2. And in the meantime, I mean, they’re a Kaito: of course they will stay behind and shoot Air invocations with their bow !

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21 minutes ago, Franwax said:

Maybe not that many sessions... two sessions at 6xp apiece should take care of Earth 2 and Fire 2. And in the meantime, I mean, they’re a Kaito: of course they will stay behind and shoot Air invocations with their bow !

the iuchi can do better all around.
but sure, the kaito isn't a lost cause, it's just the power level between the 2 characters is insanely different... Iuchi can cast spells, soak with earth, or move with water, and attack through armor with water.

kaito can sense the npc's demeanors, increase his tn to be hit by ranged attacks, or "wind up" and get a -1tn or +1opp on his next turn.

mobility, defense, damage.
3 core concepts of rpg combat.
all you need is Water and Earth. Well, not all you need, but they are "easy mode" rings. and the difference is not just a little.

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1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:

the iuchi can do better all around.
but sure, the kaito isn't a lost cause, it's just the power level between the 2 characters is insanely different... Iuchi can cast spells, soak with earth, or move with water, and attack through armor with water.

kaito can sense the npc's demeanors, increase his tn to be hit by ranged attacks, or "wind up" and get a -1tn or +1opp on his next turn.

mobility, defense, damage.
3 core concepts of rpg combat.
all you need is Water and Earth. Well, not all you need, but they are "easy mode" rings. and the difference is not just a little.

Maybe don't have a ton of combat? 😛 It's supposed to be samurai drama, not samurai action adventure. ;) 

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1 hour ago, nameless ronin said:

Maybe don't have a ton of combat? 😛 It's supposed to be samurai drama, not samurai action adventure. ;) 

you know this forum needs its villain...

and yeah, the Kaito is definitely not going to stay closer than range 4 of anybody with a readied weapon. and will use void for most of his checks so he doesn't strife himself out.

i never said it was impossible to play, I just said it was "playing the game on HARD MODE". it is going to be harder for this player than the other player, that is for sure.

 

Edited by Avatar111

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Well I will soon start GMing for a group with a Kitsune impersonator posing as an Isawa, who went full Air/Fire and Void at 2. Composure = 4 out of the box, and you know those tricksters reveal some sign of their ancestry when they become compromised :,) ! Good thing I’m starting them off with the Young Heroes option, giving 10 starting xp to boost those stats a bit. Even with that, I think we’re going to have a lot of fun !

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The character creation was a blast. It is really well done and engaging if you have the lore to back it up.

And mechanical/balance issues... I'll deal with that later if the Kaito player really struggle to do half of what the Iuchi is doing, I'm sure the Iuchi player himself would agree to give a few "buffs" (read: gm's favor) to the player. For now they just laughed it off and said "well, you definitely are playing the video game on hard mode". Which I thought was funny, and... A bit real !

Edited by Avatar111

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