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Togashi Monk Discussion

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6 hours ago, Longes said:

Are any of them superior to the Earth Fist or Way of the Earthquake though?

Way of the Earthquake is a good Kiho for the Togashi school ability.  I would not get too hung up on which Fist Kiho is going to absolutely do the most damage.  Think about your character overall, and build him/her accordingly.  The fist Kihos are similar enough that your experience will be fun with any,

I personally have made good use of The Earth Need No Eyes (or whatever it is called).  In battle, Breaking Blow has been super enjoyable.  The game rewards team tactics.  One person makes an enemy prone, and another takes advantage.  One player breaks enemy armor and another bashes them.  

I started with Earth and Fire 3, Void 2, Air and Water 1.  At rank 2 now, I've increased both my Void and Water by 1.  If you really are trying to optimize, you'll want to follow your school curriculum, as that will rank you up the fastest.  Start with a high Fire.  Build up Water at Rank 2 and take your Water Kihos then.  Etc.  

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On 4/16/2019 at 8:22 PM, UnitOmega said:

I think you guys are looking at it from the wrong end. A punch or kick is certainly an unarmed profile, but, a bite is also an unarmed attack profile - however a kiho which only activates when you punch or kick would not apply to a bite, because a bite is outside the venn diagram. It is an unarmed weapon, but it is not a punch or kick, you follow me? The strict wording of Taoist blade says kihos which "modify your unarmed profiles", with the pluralization, are applied to a one-handed weapon. 

I don't have the book, can't check the exact wording, but am I correct in understanding that your argument is that if the kiho doesn't explicitly modify all unarmed profiles it isn't eligible? A kiho that modifies the kick and punch unarmed profiles but doesn't mention bites or refers to unarmed profiles in general, without specifying any, can't be used for this purpose?

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My point was that people seemed real caught up on the connection that punches and kicks are unarmed profiles, without noting that "unarmed profiles" is a super category which includes other stuff. You cannot Death Touch with a bite, it says when performing a punch or kick they can't defend. Conversely, Way of the Edgeless Sword does - that just says "your unarmed profile" period. 

The taoist blade school (I have a picture someone took for me so direct C&P is hard) says basically kiho which "affect your unarmed profiles" are also applied to weapons in a 1h grip. Death Touch does not use the "modify a profile" wording, it just means when you make a punch or a kick they can't defend, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't work. I'm pretty sure all the [Element] Fist count though, even if they say "punch or kick" they mention modifying the unarmed profile of your punches or kicks. The key wording I think is the unarmed profile, not specifically unarmed attacks. 

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1 hour ago, UnitOmega said:

My point was that people seemed real caught up on the connection that punches and kicks are unarmed profiles, without noting that "unarmed profiles" is a super category which includes other stuff. You cannot Death Touch with a bite, it says when performing a punch or kick they can't defend. Conversely, Way of the Edgeless Sword does - that just says "your unarmed profile" period. 

The taoist blade school (I have a picture someone took for me so direct C&P is hard) says basically kiho which "affect your unarmed profiles" are also applied to weapons in a 1h grip. Death Touch does not use the "modify a profile" wording, it just means when you make a punch or a kick they can't defend, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't work. I'm pretty sure all the [Element] Fist count though, even if they say "punch or kick" they mention modifying the unarmed profile of your punches or kicks. The key wording I think is the unarmed profile, not specifically unarmed attacks. 

Well, yes and no. Unarmed profiles are basically weapons in all but name. In that sense the school ability is perfectly logical: kiho that affect a special set of "weapons" (unarmed profiles) can now affect a larger set (unarmed profiles and one-handers). The venn diagram concept kind of threw me because it doesn't seem to matter. That said, the Water Fist kiho now seems to suffer from the shoddy editing of the core book by not following the same template as the other elemental fist kiho - as written, arguably the kiho doesn't affect the unarmed profiles but the attacks made with them. I get that the Taoist Blade may not have been in development yet while the core book was being finalized, but that's kind of the point of editing consistency: it helps future proof the ruleset.

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5 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

The taoist blade school (I have a picture someone took for me so direct C&P is hard) says basically kiho which "affect your unarmed profiles" are also applied to weapons in a 1h grip. Death Touch does not use the "modify a profile" wording, it just means when you make a punch or a kick they can't defend, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't work. 

They don't 'modify' the profile (they don't change the damage stat or deadliness, for example) but they do affect it. Water fist, as noted, doesn't change the profile but makes it ignore a big chunk of physical resistance. Should it work? 

3 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Well, yes and no. Unarmed profiles are basically weapons in all but name. In that sense the school ability is perfectly logical: kiho that affect a special set of "weapons" (unarmed profiles) can now affect a larger set (unarmed profiles and one-handers). The venn diagram concept kind of threw me because it doesn't seem to matter. That said, the Water Fist kiho now seems to suffer from the shoddy editing of the core book by not following the same template as the other elemental fist kiho - as written, arguably the kiho doesn't affect the unarmed profiles but the attacks made with them.

This. Whilst we can't know the intent without a designer comment, I'd be surprised if it wasn't intended to work with at least the various 'fist' kihos. Being as strict as "unless it increases damage, deadliness or range of a punch or kick it does nothing" seems wierd in that it restricts a whole elemental discipline from the school's ability. 

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Posted (edited)

Looking at the Taoist Blade, I'm not that impressed to be honest. Your base is Water 2/Fire 2/Void 2, with +1 you are going to spend in any two of these. But you start with a Water kiho and learn Water kiho at rank 1, so it's going to be Water 3 probably. But Water kiho just don't seem that good with a blade to me. The best damaging Water kiho is Freezing the Lifeblood, and it gets nothing from being used with a Katana. Water Fist is better than nothing, but you would have gotten much more out of any other Fist.

On top of this, you have non-synergistic skills. You have to invest into Martial Arts twice (weapons and unarmed), and Unarmed does nothing for you except activate kiho. So you are lagging behind upping your half-dead skill all the time.

Rank 5 "Deadliness $TEXAS" notwithstanding, is there some kind of catch I'm missing? Taoist just seems not as good as a Togashi. You can duel, I guess, but you don't have anything exceptionally synergetic with dueling.

Edited by Longes

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13 minutes ago, Longes said:

Looking at the Taoist Blade, I'm not that impressed to be honest. Your base is Water 2/Fire 2/Void 2, with +1 you are going to spend in any two of these. But you start with a Water kiho and learn Water kiho at rank 1, so it's going to be Water 3 probably. But Water kiho just don't seem that good with a blade to me. The best damaging Water kiho is Freezing the Lifeblood, and it gets nothing from being used with a Katana. Water Fist is better than nothing, but you would have gotten much more out of any other Fist.

On top of this, you have non-synergistic skills. You have to invest into Martial Arts twice (weapons and unarmed), and Unarmed does nothing for you except activate kiho. So you are lagging behind upping your half-dead skill all the time.

Rank 5 "Deadliness $TEXAS" notwithstanding, is there some kind of catch I'm missing? Taoist just seems not as good as a Togashi. You can duel, I guess, but you don't have anything exceptionally synergetic with dueling.

Hmm I'm not sure about that. The school definitely looks morphed after the Togashi (bonus successes on kihos = to school ranks), except that:

+ They have "fists" that have a base DMG/DLS of 4/5 instead of 1/2

+ They have access to Kata to further enhance their abilities (I would love my Togashi to have even just Striking As Earth, they he would be able to activate at the same time as Earthen Fist)

- They don't have Shuji... big deal

And starting with Water Fist does not lock you in there; techniques are quite cheap and you only "lose" 1 xp out of 3 for your progression when buying them out of curriculum. So maybe he's a bit less XP efficient, but being able to combine Iaijutsu: Crossing Blade with Fire Fist for a base damage of 8, that is increased by bonus successes AND opportunities (Razor Edged) without the drawback of a cumbersome weapon is pretty neat.

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4 minutes ago, Franwax said:

Hmm I'm not sure about that. The school definitely looks morphed after the Togashi (bonus successes on kihos = to school ranks), except that:

+ They have "fists" that have a base DMG/DLS of 4/5 instead of 1/2

+ They have access to Kata to further enhance their abilities (I would love my Togashi to have even just Striking As Earth, they he would be able to activate at the same time as Earthen Fist)

- They don't have Shuji... big deal

And starting with Water Fist does not lock you in there; techniques are quite cheap and you only "lose" 1 xp out of 3 for your progression when buying them out of curriculum. So maybe he's a bit less XP efficient, but being able to combine Iaijutsu: Crossing Blade with Fire Fist for a base damage of 8, that is increased by bonus successes AND opportunities (Razor Edged) without the drawback of a cumbersome weapon is pretty neat.

And don't forget Water Fist's strike through a solid surface ability. Granted you drop a void point to trigger it, but the ability to iai cut some poor bugger on the other side of a skirmish is not to be taken lightly, especially since the resistance penetration neatly avoids the subsequent risk of damaging a razor-edged sword against an armoured opponent

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8 minutes ago, Franwax said:

- They don't have Shuji... big deal

It kind of is. Picking up a couple of shuji really rounds out bushi so they can contribute in intrigues beyond merely providing assists. As much as being able to combine kiho and kata is great in combat, it is something of a hyperspecialization. Conceptually it's definitely appropriate for warrior monks and it doesn't make them weak per se, but for me personally at least it's a major turnoff.

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13 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

It kind of is. Picking up a couple of shuji really rounds out bushi so they can contribute in intrigues beyond merely providing assists. As much as being able to combine kiho and kata is great in combat, it is something of a hyperspecialization. Conceptually it's definitely appropriate for warrior monks and it doesn't make them weak per se, but for me personally at least it's a major turnoff.

Shuji are allright, but kind of hit and miss for me, lots of them are just, trash.
a few are really cool though.

 

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Just to throw in my 2 cents here. I was preparing to homebrew a version of the Mirumoto Taoist Swordsman for this edition, so I'm super happy to hear that FFG put one out. I'll still probably tweak it for my table, but....*shrug*. In the meantime, let me point out that Way of the Earthquake works with any Attack action....so if you're looking to make a monk who can kick serious *** with a bo and Martial Arts [Melee], Way of the Earthquake is one of the few kiho for such a build. The same should definitely apply for a Taoist Swordsman using a katana.

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9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

They don't 'modify' the profile (they don't change the damage stat or deadliness, for example) but they do affect it. Water fist, as noted, doesn't change the profile but makes it ignore a big chunk of physical resistance. Should it work? 

I think the RAI is that Water Fist should work with Sharpened Ki, but due to how the Kiho is written it doesn't. If Water Fist was errataed to replace "...your Attack checks using the punch and kick unarmed profile ignore..." with "...your unarmed punch and kick profiles have the ability to ignore..." everything would be as I believe intended.

6 hours ago, Longes said:

Looking at the Taoist Blade, I'm not that impressed to be honest. Your base is Water 2/Fire 2/Void 2, with +1 you are going to spend in any two of these. But you start with a Water kiho and learn Water kiho at rank 1, so it's going to be Water 3 probably. But Water kiho just don't seem that good with a blade to me. The best damaging Water kiho is Freezing the Lifeblood, and it gets nothing from being used with a Katana. Water Fist is better than nothing, but you would have gotten much more out of any other Fist.

It is important to remember that following the curriculum is the fastest way to spend XP in order to rank up, but not necessarily the best way to spend XP. Curriculum are not straight jackets and you can buy Flame Fist, Earth Fist and Air Fist during Rank 1 just like any other Rank 1 character with Kiho access.

School abilities, Starting techs and Privileged Tech accesses tend to be the primary factors in determining how each school differs from others with the same role.

4 hours ago, KingHades said:

Just to throw in my 2 cents here. I was preparing to homebrew a version of the Mirumoto Taoist Swordsman for this edition, so I'm super happy to hear that FFG put one out. I'll still probably tweak it for my table, but....*shrug*. In the meantime, let me point out that Way of the Earthquake works with any Attack action....so if you're looking to make a monk who can kick serious *** with a bo and Martial Arts [Melee], Way of the Earthquake is one of the few kiho for such a build. The same should definitely apply for a Taoist Swordsman using a katana.

There are a lot of good Kiho that the Taoist Swordsman can get good use out of even without reliably using burst effects. In most cases the first part of Ki Sharpening isn't really important, its the second part which grants free bonus successes for burst effects which I am glad is limited to by Ki Sharpening's narrowness. Each Tattoed Monk is limited to 6 Kiho that they can easily or auto burst with over their life, while in theory a Taoist Swordsman could auto burst an infinite amount of Kiho as long as they modify the unarmed profiles.

Currently Breaking Blow, Freezing the Lifeblood, Water Fist and Death Touch are the only Kiho that a Taoist can't use effectively while wielding their one-handed weapon of choice. The only real losses I see from these 4 Kiho are Breaking Blow (can't use this to cut boulders or strip people naked ☹️) and Water Fist.

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56 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Currently Breaking Blow, Freezing the Lifeblood, Water Fist and Death Touch are the only Kiho that a Taoist can't use effectively while wielding their one-handed weapon of choice. The only real losses I see from these 4 Kiho are Breaking Blow (can't use this to cut boulders or strip people naked ☹️) and Water Fist.

Way of the Falling Star should be on that list as well.

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You guys are overthinking it.

Taoist sword works with water fist, and death touch.

If they wanted to have a specific list of kiho like that the wording wouldn't have been so vague.

It is clear that all that affects unarmed profiles, in the big picture of things, like death touch "affects" your punches and kicks.

But anyway, just make it more tedious than it already is if you want.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

It is clear that all that affects unarmed profiles, in the big picture of things, like death touch "affects" your punches and kicks. 

Death touch does not affect the punch and kick profiles. It affects Attack actions performed with the punch and kick profiles. There is no actual modification of the profile. This is important for a couple reasons. Not every thing that checks a weapon's profile is necessarily an Attack. If you use Spinning Blades Style to punch or kick someone while under the effect of Death Touch you would only deal fatigue and not inflict a crit.

6 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

If i have something that affects "melee weapon"

Of course it affects attacks that requires a katana to use.

Insanity.

This is different. Affecting Attack actions is different than affecting weapon profiles. If a Support, Scheme or Movement action did stuff based on a weapon's profile the second would affect those action while the first would not.

"Increase the damage of Attacks made with a weapon by X Ring" is different than "increase the damage of a weapon's profile by X Ring."

Edited by Ultimatecalibur

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Then we have to agree to disagree.

Unless I hear a FAQ answer, I cannot believe otherwise. But I am not judging your interpretation and the rules as written cannot clearly answer the question.

To me, the kiho does in fact affect punches and kicks, which are unarmed profiles, thus you can use a one handed sword and get the same effect from that technique. But I also cannot prove my interpretation.

 

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Noting that this was originally a topic surrounding Togashi Monks ...

By my reading, there are 23 Kiho in the main book.  Of those, my reading is that for Sharpened Ki (Taoist Blade School ability) there are 5 that are in, 14 that are out, and 4 that are "maybes".  I will not bother listing those that are out, as I believe those would be non-controversial.

For those that are in: Earth Fist, Air Fist, Fire Fist, Water Fist, and Way of the Edgeless  Sword.  This is based on the reading of "profile" basically being in listed in the ability as well as the premise that Water Fist is the only Kiho Taoist Blade starts with, and say what you will about the rules in general, I absolutely refuse to believe they would start off with only 1 Kiho that was explicitly not used with their school ability.

For those that are "maybe": Breaking Blow, Way of the Falling Star, Freezing the Lifeblood, and Death Touch.  This is based on the more generalist interpretation that "punch" and "kick" are simply a subset of "unarmed profiles" and that the reading of "unarmed profiles" is not explicitly "all unarmed profiles".  IE - the plural could be read as "one or more profiles in the unarmed profiles category" as opposed to "all profiles in the unarmed category".

So, to give some context and by way of comparison, a Togashi Monk is limited to 6 (1 each rank) tattoo to get the +bonus success school ability on (as mentioned above), and the more liberal reading above would give Taoist's 9 Kiho to potentially get that effect on.  However, one could compare the *other* benefit each school gets as well - Taoist get to use 1 handed weapon with those Kiho, while Togashi get potentially 6 free Kiho.  The Taoist needs to spend those 3xp per to benefit, and if you look at their curriculum, takes a hit in school advancement somewhere along the way if they do, as only Water, Earth and Void Kiho are listed - not Fire or Air.

For me, it works out well enough with the liberal reading that it isn't over balanced but to each their own.  Limiting the Taoist to a strict 5 (4?) Kiho that get affected by their school ability to me is overbearing and also consider that way of the edgeless sword is essentially useless as concerned with the Sharpened Ki school ability - it replaces the profile with Void+Unarmed skill, so using it with your fists is just as effective as a katana ...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Worloch said:

For me, it works out well enough with the liberal reading that it isn't over balanced but to each their own.  Limiting the Taoist to a strict 5 (4?) Kiho that get affected by their school ability to me is overbearing

While the current limit is 4 or 5 kiho, they could easily and likely will introduce more kiho that are applicable in future books. I can imagine a Earth/Fire 'Steel Fang' kiho that increases the bite profiles damage and deadliness by Earth+Fire/2, an Air/Fire 'Lightning Fist' kiho akin to Chidori, an Obsidian Claw maho kiho that makes your punches Razor-Edged and Unholy, a Viper Fist kiho which applies the effect of a chosen poison to your unarmed attack profiles and quite a few other possible 'kiho' that would qualify from a wide variety of eastern fantasy.

A narrow reading allows them to control which future kiho are accessible without needing to write exclusion clauses.

1 hour ago, Worloch said:

also consider that way of the edgeless sword is essentially useless as concerned with the Sharpened Ki school ability - it replaces the profile with Void+Unarmed skill, so using it with your fists is just as effective as a katana ... 

But some kata can not be performed with unarmed strikes and the ability to give a weapon both Durable and Razor-Edged can't be underestimated. Also a Katana has a superior range and you can also use Edgeless with Shuriken.

Edited by Ultimatecalibur

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1 minute ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

While the current limit is 4 or 5 kiho, they could easily and likely will introduce more kiho to are applicable in future books. I can imagine a Earth/Fire 'Steel Fang' kiho that increases the bite profiles damage and deadliness by Earth+Fire/2, an Air/Fire 'Lightning Fist' kiho akin to Chidori, an Obsidian Claw maho kiho that makes your punches Razor-Edged and Unholy, a Viper Fist kiho which applies the effect of a chosen poison to your unarmed attack profiles and quite a few other possible 'kiho' that would qualify from a wide variety of eastern fantasy.

But some kata can not be performed with unarmed strikes and the ability to give a weapon both Durable and Razor-Edged can't be underestimated. Also a Katana has a superior range and you can also use Edgeless with Shuriken

No offense, but both edge cases, which have little to no bearing in the current environment.

The first is literally based on an assumption of future content, which has absolutely no bearing for playing right now, and can't be predicted to shift balance in a negative way - consider the idea that you "reign in" this ability on the prospect of events that never occur; not fun.  In short, deal with that when it happens, not now.

The second is ... well, very limited in scope and I would submit almost a straw man argument.  A Katana, frankly, does not have superior range to unarmed attacks - Punch is 0 and Kick is 1, which means you actually have more versatility in range with unarmed attacks than you do with a Katana.  As we are basically discussing Edgeless Sword here, the profile of the unarmed attacks in terms of damage and deadliness is irrelevant as they are replaced whole-cloth.

Some Kata cannot be performed with unarmed true ... but really would you argue that as a basis here?  There are really only 5 Kata used with non-ranged weapons that I would see as not being usable unarmed and two become questionable when you add in the specific scenario of using Edgeless Sword.  Soaring Slice technically only states a readied weapon in a 1 handed grip is needed, but unless you are cutting your hand off and throwing it at your opponent, I wouldn't allow it.  Rushing Avalanche states a "blunt weapon" with Martials Arts [melee], so even though we would commonly ascribe fists as a blunt weapon, it doesn't count in this case.  Iron Forest Style straight up requires a Polearm, so it is right out.  Both Iaijustu Cut techniques require a sheathed, razor-edged weapon, but considering Edgeless Sword does affect your unarmed profiles, and specifically adds razor-edged, you do find yourself in a strange place of questioning if you can have a "sheathed" unarmed attack - that is up to your GM but if they decide putting your hand in your pocket or some such could count as sheathed, then you're good to go (probably because you are rank 5 at this point or so, it is an extreme corner case, and it is hilarious).

The rest, and frankly the vast majority, either explicitly call out Unarmed as usable, or simply state a "weapon" and using the appropriate skill to that weapon.  The sidebar on page 237 gives us the information required for this case, in stating that you can use unarmed attack profiles explicitly as weapons for use with techniques.

Now, Shuriken I  had never really thought of - but again, 1 specialist weapon, with negative associations, combined with 1 school ability, and 1 rank 5 Kiho is part of your argument against a more generous reading of the entire schools ability?  Why not simply rule that you can't use it with Shuriken, or more broadly, ranged weapons at all, as that is obviously in keeping with the theme as presented.

 

To sum up, this seems like some pretty far reaching to me - again, no offense intended and you and your group should play it how it works best for you all to have fun but I can't help but read that and think the position doesn't make sense.

 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Worloch said:

The first is literally based on an assumption of future content, which has absolutely no bearing for playing right now, and can't be predicted to shift balance in a negative way - consider the idea that you "reign in" this ability on the prospect of events that never occur; not fun.  In short, deal with that when it happens, not now.

Actually it does have bearing because good design plans for the future.

45 minutes ago, Worloch said:

The second is ... well, very limited in scope and I would submit almost a straw man argument.  A Katana, frankly, does not have superior range to unarmed attacks - Punch is 0 and Kick is 1, which means you actually have more versatility in range with unarmed attacks than you do with a Katana.  As we are basically discussing Edgeless Sword here, the profile of the unarmed attacks in terms of damage and deadliness is irrelevant as they are replaced whole-cloth.

You claim I'm straw manning so I'll point out you moved the goalpost.

2 hours ago, Worloch said:

so using it with your fists is just as effective as a katana ...

You compared Punches (not kicks) to Katanas not me.

45 minutes ago, Worloch said:

Some Kata cannot be performed with unarmed true ... but really would you argue that as a basis here?  There are really only 5 Kata used with non-ranged weapons that I would see as not being usable unarmed and two become questionable when you add in the specific scenario of using Edgeless Sword.  Soaring Slice technically only states a readied weapon in a 1 handed grip is needed, but unless you are cutting your hand off and throwing it at your opponent, I wouldn't allow it.  Rushing Avalanche states a "blunt weapon" with Martials Arts [melee], so even though we would commonly ascribe fists as a blunt weapon, it doesn't count in this case.  Iron Forest Style straight up requires a Polearm, so it is right out.  Both Iaijustu Cut techniques require a sheathed, razor-edged weapon, but considering Edgeless Sword does affect your unarmed profiles, and specifically adds razor-edged, you do find yourself in a strange place of questioning if you can have a "sheathed" unarmed attack - that is up to your GM but if they decide putting your hand in your pocket or some such could count as sheathed, then you're good to go (probably because you are rank 5 at this point or so, it is an extreme corner case, and it is hilarious).

You are completely missing the point. Sharpened Ki+Soaring Slice+Edgless Sword lets you throw a 10 damage/10 deadliness weapon Range 1-3+, Sharpened Ki+Edgeless Sword+ Iaijutsu Cut: Rising Blade let you draw cut auto crit compromised targets at Range 0-1 and 10 deadliness with any sheathed weapon that has a one-handed grip, Sharpened Ki+Edgeless Sword+ Iaijutsu Cut: Crossing Cut lets you hit at range 1-2 with 10 deadliness when using any sheathed weapon with a one-handed grip, Ki Sharpness lets you Rushing Avalanche using a 10 damage 10 deadliness Razor-Edged Club, Hammer, Kiseru, Genno or Tsuruhashi, Ki Sharpness lets you use Iron Forest Style with a 10 damage 10 deadliness Razor-Edged Tinbe (Mantis Dlc).

A Taoist Blade using Edgeless is a force to be reckoned with and will just get stronger as more kata get added.

Edited by Ultimatecalibur

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Yeah, I'm with @Ultimatecalibur here. 1( Future-proofing is absolutely good game design, especially since L5R is moving pretty fast in book releases. I expect by next month they'll be previewing Courts of Stone and may have announced a fifth book at this rate. 

And 2( while DMG/DLS is very much obviously rounded out by Edgeless Sword, there is absolutely loads of flexibility in using it with a 1h weapon including all those katas the Taoist Blade can take, which we should note, Togashi cannot. That kind of overlap is probably the design space they are deliberately designed to tap into, and it should not be underplayed. They had to give up Shuji to get here.

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Overestimating the designers.

 

Of course the Taoist ability should work with water fist... Come on.

Do you think when they wrote the ability they worded it especially so this or that kiho would work?

Of course not....

They just thought about "a one handed weapon can replace any unarmed profile for kiho". And worded it as best as they could before their coffee break.

And I am certain with a "faq" that they won't write down all kihos that work or doesn't work. They will give a general answer to clarify the rule in a simple way. And the only way to do that is making it work with all.

But we will see. Maybe someone with better notoriety than me can ask the question.

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2 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

Of course the Taoist ability should work with water fist... Come on.

Do you think when they wrote the ability they worded it especially so this or that kiho would work?

Of course not....

I'm saying they likely wrote the ability so that a specific "family" of kiho would work, but one of member of that family of kiho was an anomaly written differently.

2 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

They just thought about "a one handed weapon can replace any unarmed profile for kiho". And worded it as best as they could before their coffee break. 

There are far shorter and easier ways of writing the ability if it was supposed to be able to apply all kiho that affect unarmed attacks. They explicitly used the phrase "your unarmed attack profiles" which refer to a very specific group of things in this game.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

They explicitly used the phrase "your unarmed attack profiles" which refer to a very specific group of things in this game.

Like attacks made with punches and kicks ?

Anyway!

I dont see anything wrong in playing with either interpretation until it is clarified.

 

 

death touch is like the only slightly strong case. But as i've said earlier, not strong enough to break the game more than many other things at rank 4 are already breaking it. And definitely not worth making some very fun kiho not useable with the school ability just to nerf one kiho; death touch.

taoist sword, with whatever interpretation you use, is one of the best fighter and duelist, with sheer versatility, at every rank. Being worried if they can use death touch or not, when they already put in the dumpster most other bushi in combat, is not a big deal. 

Edited by Avatar111

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