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For those who are not excited for hyperspace(imperial players? Rebel players? “Variety” players?) can ffg change your mind?

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14 hours ago, ConomeOnTheVine said:

It's a fair comparison, but misses a bit since individual heroes are comparable to a ship chassis and abilities are analogous  to ship upgrades/pilot abilities. Imagine the headaches you'd see if the default format for Dota 2 was choose a hero, then choose your 3 abilities + ult from all available abilities, with a few locked to faction / hero type / attack range / etc.. Now that I think of it, I would've been excited to play a Quick Build-only format, but official tournament support for it is non-existent.

Dota 2 heroes are more analagous to pilot cards because the heroes have base stats (strength, intellligence, etc) and have abilities.  The hero abilities are like the pilot abilities but more complex as each hero has at least 4 abilities (some have more).  I think the dota 2 items are more similar to x-wing upgrade cards.  Dota 2 Items have a wide range of various in game effects including passive buffs to active abilities.

For summary

Dota 2 Heroes ~ x-wing pilot cards

Dota 2 Items ~ x-wing upgrade cards

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15 hours ago, ConomeOnTheVine said:

It's a fair comparison, but misses a bit since individual heroes are comparable to a ship chassis and abilities are analogous  to ship upgrades/pilot abilities. Imagine the headaches you'd see if the default format for Dota 2 was choose a hero, then choose your 3 abilities + ult from all available abilities, with a few locked to faction / hero type / attack range / etc.. Now that I think of it, I would've been excited to play a Quick Build-only format, but official tournament support for it is non-existent. 

Tabletop games like X-Wing, by design, encourage players to buy at least one of everything, whether it be within a faction or the entire game. What upsets people the most is FFG making decisions that drastically alter the competitive landscape after people have bought in, where if they had known about it from the onset maybe they wouldn't have bought in. I played SW:Destiny for the first three sets, and had they announced that set rotation/Trilogy format would have been a thing before release, I probably wouldn't have gotten as involved as I did, and this is the same sort of 'betrayal' players are feeling now with the Hyperspace announcement.

That and Hyperspace isn't a well curated format. I'll play it, but my expectations on it being a better format than Extended are low, and will probably remain low.

Funny thing but back in 1st edition I used to compare X-wing to overwatch instead of Dota because it was easier to switch factions in X-wing where as Warhammer 40,000, Warmachines, and other paint-it-yourself miniature games you have to stick to a faction and adjust your list according to the meta, like picking a character and adjusting your items/abilities in a MOBA.

It is getting harder to switch factions now, but I think the metaphorical comparison still stands. You don't play every character in a game of Overwatch, there is just too many characters to play each one in a single round. You pick a couple you are good at and stick to those.

Edited by Marinealver

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2 hours ago, Koing907 said:

Show me the "early" announcement where FFG outlined the Hyperspace format as we know it now.

Can you explain how you read the following, and why?

"it also allows the Organized Play team to explore dozens of new possibilities with alternate formats for the game."

"the versatility of the X-Wing squad builder app means that it will be easy to support multiple formats of play, creating a more dynamic play environment."

"Whether you’re playing at a tournament or around your table at home, the squad builder can be used to create specific formats that test all of your squad-building abilities. The point costs or upgrade slots available to certain ships could be easily adjusted for the course of a single event, a series of tournaments, or a season of the game."

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18 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Can you explain how you read the following, and why?

"it also allows the Organized Play team to explore dozens of new possibilities with alternate formats for the game."

"the versatility of the X-Wing squad builder app means that it will be easy to support multiple formats of play, creating a more dynamic play environment."

"Whether you’re playing at a tournament or around your table at home, the squad builder can be used to create specific formats that test all of your squad-building abilities. The point costs or upgrade slots available to certain ships could be easily adjusted for the course of a single event, a series of tournaments, or a season of the game."

How I read it? There's nothing in there about the Hyperspace format, which was my original question that you quoted. FFG did not provide an outline of the Hyperspace type limited format for official events. They just said there will be alternate formats... 

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Just now, Koing907 said:

How I read it? There's nothing in there about the Hyperspace format, which was my original question that you quoted. FFG did not provide an outline of the Hyperspace type limited format for official events. They just said there will be alternate formats... 

But isn't that shifting the goalposts a bit?   This discussion started somewhere in vicinity of how "all ships will be playable" was interpreted.   When presented with the idea that FFG had never said that all ships would be tournament legal all the time, and -in fact - hinted at various tournament formats, we're now going down the road that they didn't talk specifically about Hyperspace?

I don't know that FFG had decided on a tournament format yet.  They also didn't ever guarantee that "extended" would be the law of the land.

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4 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

How I read it? There's nothing in there about the Hyperspace format, which was my original question that you quoted. FFG did not provide an outline of the Hyperspace type limited format for official events. They just said there will be alternate formats... 

You know as well as I do that hyperspace was initially second edition. I ignored that out of courtesy.

So, how do you read the announcement of different formats? How would different formats be different if they had the exact same ships and pilots available?

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6 minutes ago, AlexW said:

But isn't that shifting the goalposts a bit? 

Nope. Read my original question. "outlined the Hyperspace format as we know it now." If FFG had said, they are looking into a limited format, a ban list, or a ship rotation, that would have fit the description. It doesn't have to be a verbatim copy of the Hyperspace rules, merely a mention of a limited format as a type of official event.

Edited by Koing907

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7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

You know as well as I do that hyperspace was initially second edition. I ignored that out of courtesy.

So, how do you read the announcement of different formats? How would different formats be different if they had the exact same ships and pilots available?

I didn't say the exact same ships and pilots available. Hyperspace (what we now call hyperspace) is a restricted pool that excludes 80-90 (I should do the numbers one of these days) percent of the Extended content. That's not just an alternate format, that's a huge restriction. 

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Fine. Second ******* article.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/xwing-second-edition-organized-play/

May 1 last year. How many times did they have to tell you.

Beyond this, you have the new squad building app / website, which enables us to create a wealth of wholly new experiences. We can use the app to tailor individual events around specific pools of ships, pilots, and upgrades.

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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3 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

Fine. Second ******* article.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/xwing-second-edition-organized-play/

 

Beyond this, you have the new squad building app / website, which enables us to create a wealth of wholly new experiences. We can use the app to tailor individual events around specific pools of ships, pilots, and upgrades. May 1 last year.

Hyperspace is not an individual event. It is an ongoing official format.

 

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6 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Hyperspace is not an individual event. It is an ongoing official format.

 

Ok. Now add preview one. Plus preview 2. Because they cant announce everything all in one article. (Once again explaining painfully simple concepts)

You have formats being created with specific pools. It was all there in the first 2 articles about this game.

And yes you're now moving goalposts because your last statement on that was about how they didnt warn about ship bans.

 

 

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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The first mention of two competitive formats that I found is from August 13th, still well before release.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/8/13/qualify-for-worlds-in-less-than-twelve-parsecs/
I quote: "With the introduction of X-Wing Second Edition, there are now two competitive tracks that both lead toward the X-Wing World Championship—the System Open Series and the Hyperspace events."

The first mention of restricted format is from Nova Open (September 4th, still before release!), where Alex Davy mentioned that X-wing will have an restricted format and a non-restricted format for organized play, but I can't find a taping to show you.

16 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

That's not just an alternate format, that's a huge restriction. 

That difference only exists in your interpretation. There is nothing that says how much an alternate is going to be restricted.

 

Anyway, this demonstrated to you that two competitive tracks were announced a month before release, and a restricted format was announced a week before release. You could have known if you had listened.

Edited by GreenDragoon
added link to NovaOpen cache. The panel existed. Dion and other of the earlier mentioned community figures knew and did spread the word

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1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

The first mention of two competitive formats that I found is from August 13th, still well before release.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/8/13/qualify-for-worlds-in-less-than-twelve-parsecs/
I quote: "With the introduction of X-Wing Second Edition, there are now two competitive tracks that both lead toward the X-Wing World Championship—the System Open Series and the Hyperspace events."

The first mention of restricted format is from Nova Open (September 4th, still before release!), where Alex Davy mentioned that X-wing will have an restricted format and a non-restricted format for organized play, but I can't find a taping to show you.

That difference only exists in your interpretation. There is nothing that says how much an alternate is going to be restricted.

 

Anyway, this demonstrated to you that two competitive tracks were announced a month before release, and a restricted format was announced a week before release. You could have known if you had listened.

This is getting ridiculous. I shouldn't have to watch Nova Open to get information about alterntate official formats! You can't even find a taping! While people are furiously hunting for this stuff, and only finding obscure maybe-kindas, do you think that perhaps this is an indication that FFG hasn't been as clear as they should have been? 

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10 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

Ok. Now add preview one. Plus preview 2. Because they cant announce everything all in one article. (Once again explaining painfully simple concepts)

You have formats being created with specific pools. It was all there in the first 2 articles about this game.

And yes you're now moving goalposts because your last statement on that was about how they didnt warn about ship bans.

 

 

"We're thinking about an official format, restricted to expansions released after 2.0, and maybe a few ships from the Conversion packs." would have done nicely. This kinda-sorta-maybe stuff isn't clear at all.

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4 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

"We're thinking about an official format, restricted to expansions released after 2.0, and maybe a few ships from the Conversion packs." would have done nicely. This kinda-sorta-maybe stuff isn't clear at all.

Your example specifically includes maybe. They declared alt formats. They declared restricted specific ship pools. Oh and he found the cache you were after for nova evidence. This stuff isnt hard to find at all. The guy who doesnt understand how to get memes in a post found the articles declaring it in less than a minute.

I also dont see why they have to use your preferred word use? Like your statement there could probably be twisted and confused by someone like you just as much as theirs were. Lots of people understood them. Your comprehension is the issue.

Get your maybes outtahere

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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1 minute ago, Koing907 said:

"We're thinking about an official format, restricted to expansions released after 2.0, and maybe a few ships from the Conversion packs." would have done nicely. This kinda-sorta-maybe stuff isn't clear at all.

Both your last points are fair to an extent.   That said, there’s also nothing that says the format you were hoping for would be either.

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Just now, Koing907 said:

This is getting ridiculous. I shouldn't have to watch Nova Open to get information about alterntate official formats! You can't even find a taping! While people are furiously hunting for this stuff, and only finding obscure maybe-kindas, do you think that perhaps this is an indication that FFG hasn't been as clear as they should have been? 

Ah, now this is moving the goal posts.

See SOTL some pages ago already:

4 hours ago, SOTL said:

I think much of 'the community' predicted this very accurately and were very vocal about trying to disseminate this so people knew what to expect.  Most podcasts and blogs called it pretty much spot on from day one.

Your reply was:

4 hours ago, Koing907 said:

Perhaps FFG should have been the ones doing the disseminating. Predictions and opinions are fine and good, but you and the rest of us are not official FFG spokespeople, and one person's prediction is another person's wild rumor.

But as it turns out, that was not a wild rumor, no prediction or rumor. And it was disseminated by FFG directly to community members that have a huge reach. Could they have said so in an earlier article? Sure. But FFG in the person of Alex Davy said it in a panel, and it spread through the community.

 

I even have something better for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYOFONCJ1HU

Dion's podcast ep 75 after the Nova open. He says at around 19min that he does have the audio. It took me 5 minutes to find that. I am not going to listen to the whole cast, maybe they discuss it directly.

The point is: we knew. We said so. You could have known.

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2 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

Your example specifically includes maybe. They declared alt formats. They declared restricted specific ship pools.

 

Get your maybes outtahere

Get yours out of here. A restricted list for an individual tournament is what they mentioned. You have to mush together different updates and twist them into anything resembling the Hyperspace format.

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33 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Get yours out of here. A restricted list for an individual tournament is what they mentioned. You have to mush together different updates and twist them into anything resembling the Hyperspace format.

No not mushing and twisting updates. 2 back to back announcements about the edition. Theres a difference. Theres that reading comprehension of yours at play again.

Edited by Dabirdisdaword

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1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Ah, now this is moving the goal posts.

See SOTL some pages ago already:

Your reply was:

But as it turns out, that was not a wild rumor, no prediction or rumor. And it was disseminated by FFG directly to community members that have a huge reach. Could they have said so in an earlier article? Sure. But FFG in the person of Alex Davy said it in a panel, and it spread through the community.

 

I even have something better for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYOFONCJ1HU

Dion's podcast ep 75 after the Nova open. He says at around 19min that he does have the audio. It took me 5 minutes to find that. I am not going to listen to the whole cast, maybe they discuss it directly.

The point is: we knew. We said so. You could have known.

But they didn't. And that was my point.

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