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prauxim

Nien Numb

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What are people's opinion on Nien/PA?

Obviosly, when he triggers, his econ is the best of all T70s, superior to even Poe. But other turns he might as well be a generic, a scenario especially common on initial approach.

Ive had two games where triggered like crazy, then two where he got focused down before he could activate once. 

Curious as to weather people think he's pulling weight with enough regularity.

Also what other ugrades are you running if any. Daredevil sounds seems like it makes sense but didn't seem to need it but maybe once/game. Squad Leader?

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31 minutes ago, Crimsonwarlock said:

Think of Nien like a Biggs for Poe.  If you ignore him, he K turns for days against you.  The only thing keeping him in check is single actions (mostly).

 

Autothruster plus Daredevil is amazing on him

Single actions? You mean single mods? With PA he should be hopefully be getting double actions pretty often after the initial engagement. If not may as well run somebody with more solid econ.

I assume you meant afterburners. It does seem interesting. It doesn't help him get into range for his ability after a red since it happens after check difficulty, but could help with the initial approach or if you want to white/boost(optionally DD) into R1 or focus/BR into R1. Pretty pricey though, cant fit it and DD in a list with skinny Poe and naked Jess, but I may give it a try with Poe/Bastian.

Edited by prauxim
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I run him with Black One and Advanced Slam so he's never jousting, he just 4-straights and 4ks on the approach, or 3-bank into Talon, then Boosts with PA if needed (or focus if not needed) and gets a free stressless red action from Advanced Slam on that round to attack with. With PA he clocks in at a reasonable 65 points. 

Keep in mind that Afterburners does not help to shed stress with Nien's ability and Pattern Analyzer. Afterburners triggers after the check stress step. 

Poe gets very expensive very quickly if you try to do anything interesting with him. I'm struggling to find a list compliment other than Rey that fits alongside an ~75-80 point Poe. Bare minimum he's 73 points with R4, Black One and Heroic. He doesn't have the defensive abilities to survive a joust, but if you're using him as a flanker/dodger then all that bulk that he's paying 20+ points for over Soontir is being wasted, plus he neuters his offense if he needs to barrel roll unless you're pumping even more points into him with Proton Torps. It feels like Poe is trying to be Redline and Soontir at the same time, isn't as good as either of them are at their jobs, but is paying 25 to 30 points for the privilege of having the options to try. Basically the jack-of-all, master-of-none problem. 

I think I only like Poe if I'm building a "Poe list", but if I'm building a Resistance list that could benefit from a high initiative Ace, I'd rather go with Nien or even Lulo.   

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5 hours ago, prauxim said:

With PA he should be hopefully be getting double actions pretty often after the initial engagement.

I learned something new today. I had to re-read the 2e Patter Analyzer. So Nien with Patter Analyzer works differently than first edition. He gets two actions on red maneuvers if he clears the stress. He was already my favorite T-70 pilot. I'm glad to see he'll be even better than I thought.

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59 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

I learned something new today. I had to re-read the 2e Patter Analyzer. So Nien with Patter Analyzer works differently than first edition. He gets two actions on red maneuvers if he clears the stress. He was already my favorite T-70 pilot. I'm glad to see he'll be even better than I thought.

Yeah, it's that econ that gives him a shot at being competitive. Just a matter of how often he can churn it out.

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I'm just wondering as to when his ability triggers - during the whole activaton phase, or just after receiving a stress, i.e. after the 'check difficulty' step of the manoeuvre but before 'perform action' step?

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1 hour ago, rhetor said:

I'm just wondering as to when his ability triggers - during the whole activaton phase, or just after receiving a stress, i.e. after the 'check difficulty' step of the manoeuvre but before 'perform action' step?

It’s not tied to a phase, it is always on. The only conditions mentioned are getting a stress when there’s an enemy at range 0-1 in his front arc. There’s no condition around when he gets the stress or from what source. 

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51 minutes ago, KiAdiMoody said:

It’s not tied to a phase, it is always on. The only conditions mentioned are getting a stress when there’s an enemy at range 0-1 in his front arc. There’s no condition around when he gets the stress or from what source. 

So why haven't they used the wording "When you are stressed" or "when you have one stress token"?

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3 minutes ago, rhetor said:

So why haven't they used the wording "When you are stressed" or "when you have one stress token"?

Because those are not the triggers for it. It triggers whenever any stress token is received.

If you have a token and later the conditions are satisfied (e.g. you k turn and boost but don't have a ship in arc at range 1 but soontir then flies into your arc) you're out of luck.

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7 hours ago, rhetor said:

So why haven't they used the wording "When you are stressed" or "when you have one stress token"?

It also means he has no issue killing Sloane swarms; he kills a ship, acquires two stress, and if there's an enemy in arc at range one, the stress goes away.

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47 minutes ago, Stryker359 said:

It also means he has no issue killing Sloane swarms; he kills a ship, acquires two stress, and if there's an enemy in arc at range one, the stress goes away.

Been wondering about that, does gaining 2 simultaneous stress trigger "when you gain a stress"?

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47 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yup.  Each token is treated as a separate opportunity to trigger his ability.

That's a fair guess, and what I hope to be the case, but is there anything to back it up?

"Receive 2 stress" sounds simultaneous and "a" is singular.

Is there a blanket rule, or a president?

Edited by prauxim
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5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Only how it worked in 1e, I think.  The ability queue might help, but I'm not sure it goes that granular.

There's a bunch of stuff from this wave that could stand a little bit of expansion and rewriting of the RR.

Yeah I'm fine with the queing, if something said "after you receive a stress then receive another stress" I'm sure Nien would work. My potential issue is that "2 stress" might trigger the "a stress" condition at all.

I'd assume there's something somewhere that offers a president, need to find it before it comes up in a game, as much as I like the Xwing community, mid game rules debates can get pretty prickly!

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17 minutes ago, prauxim said:

That's a fair guess, and what I hope to be the case, but is there anything to back it up?

"Receive 2 stress" sounds simultaneous and "a" is singular.

Is there a blanket rule, or a president?

 

9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Only how it worked in 1e, I think.  The ability queue might help, but I'm not sure it goes that granular.

There's a bunch of stuff from this wave that could stand a little bit of expansion and rewriting of the RR.

Would the fact that Damage is applied one hit at a time then one crit at a time be applicable to each stress being interpreted as a separate trigger? 

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1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

There's no president.

Or even precedent.

In 2e, anyway.

I'd be stunned if it's not ruled this way however.

Lol, ****, guess I got holiday discussions on the brain 🙄

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9 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

 

Would the fact that Damage is applied one hit at a time then one crit at a time be applicable to each stress being interpreted as a separate trigger? 

That's the closest I've heard.

I though I remembered something from researching Jan Ors and double focus but I must have imagined it.

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3 minutes ago, prauxim said:

That's the closest I've heard.

I though I remembered something from researching Jan Ors and double focus but I must have imagined it.

I think you mean Jyn Erso + Perceptive Co-Pilot, Jan gains a stress to enable a squaddie a reroll on an attack. I'll look.

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