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GreenDragoon

Five A-Wings

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18 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

That's definitely the way to go for 5 generics. But I'm still on the Lulo train (even if less enchanted) and there I lack the points.

Ya, I see that now. Thanks for linking the lists in your first post. :) 

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Tonight, I’m finally getting to play with my 5x A-Wings!  I’m planning on running GSEs w/ Heroic and Advanced Optics.  I’m not sure what to do with the last 5 points.  Crack Shot was my first instinct, but I had the same concerns.  I still think getting a couple crack shots off per game is better than a couple trick shots.  I think I’m going to try Crack Shot a couple times at first.  Besides Lulo, are there any other good 5 point options to slot in to the list?

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24 minutes ago, Phelan Boots said:

Besides Lulo, are there any other good 5 point options to slot in to the list?

As SOTL says, you can try Tallie. But she doesn't fit into my gameplan, so I never tried it.

My alternatives are the two in the opening post (Lulo or Snap with blues and optics), or as mentioned by Hiemfire adding Trickshot instead of crackshot.

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I was considering making my own post, on my 4 a wings and T 70, so I do not clutter Green Dragons post up, with my stuff. thinking so we can compare notes on how they are going, I am really renjoying my version of the list.

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1 minute ago, Mcpolle said:

I was considering making my own post, on my 4 a wings and T 70, so I do not clutter Green Dragons post up, with my stuff. thinking so we can compare notes on how they are going, I am really renjoying my version of the list.

Awesome, please do!

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

As SOTL says, you can try Tallie. But she doesn't fit into my gameplan, so I never tried it.

After looking at it, I don’t hate Zari.

Zari - Heroic, Intimidation, AO

She might be decent, same In3, still gets her focus while bumping, and intimidates the primary target.  The downside, I would have one less A-Wing shooting at the primary target.  I’m sure there’s math to prove which option is better, I’m guessing Intimidation if you can pull it off consistently.

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I like the T-70s but hard to fit them in with Optics.  I think Optics may just be too good to avoid.

One I've looked at but decided was too risky, is you can take 3 Optic Blues and 2 generic T-70s.  That's 200.

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14 hours ago, SOTL said:

I think Optics may just be too good to avoid.

I think you may be right!

I'm currently having a lot of fun flying L’ulo, Zari and 3 GSEs, all with Heroic and Optics, for 200 points...

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On 1/7/2019 at 8:06 AM, GreenDragoon said:

I'm dropping it, because I don't see the point because I can't use it

dropping just crack gets you all the named Awings. Zari has an awesome ability and same init as greens for just a single point.

Green Squadron Expert (34)
Heroic (1)
Intimidation (3)

L'ulo L'ampar (38)
Heroic (1)

Greer Sonnel (36)
Heroic (1)

Zari Bangel (35)
Heroic (1)
Intimidation (3)

Tallissan Lintra (35)
Heroic (1)

Total: 189

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

 

Goodluck. Looks fun. Love the resistance Awings.

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22 hours ago, Phelan Boots said:

After looking at it, I don’t hate Zari.

 

1 hour ago, wurms said:

Zari has an awesome ability and same init as greens for just a single point.

I think Zari is flat out better than Tallie, but that might be due to playstyle and the list I fly her with (Poe/Bastion/L'ulo/Zari).  I think if more people put Zari on the table with a purposeful approach on how to get the most out of her ability, they'd see the same.  I5 Tallie is nothing to sneeze at, though.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, wurms said:

Goodluck. Looks fun. Love the resistance Awings.

That's without adcanced optics. Which means they lose a huge amount of offense.

I don't believe that's better

edit: it's a shift of 25% of results, so a quarter of your attacks deal a damage more with advanced optics. Or one per turn.

I doubt that the abilities amount to a consistent damage per turn.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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League Game 12.1.19 (initially from mobile, did edit)

4+1

vs

BobaTerochPioneer

Opponent's determining action and my target priority: Teroch takes my tokens, so I take 4hull Teroch first. The shuttle makes Boba more resistant, so I take the shuttle down next. And then I run, because I won't be able to take Boba down.

Deployment: Too many rocks!  See image 1. I decided that I prefer to start the fight in the NE part of the map, were there are not so many rocks. That means Lulo in the SW corner, the rest in the SE corner. He deployed in the eastern part of the end: Teroch in middle end, then the Pioneer further east, then Boba.

The gameplan for the first turns: Fake a joust with Boba, let him bump and focus down Teroch. If possible only using rear arcs, otherwise front.

How it went:
Turn1: The pioneer started with a 3 straight and coordinated a boost on Teroch who did a 3 (or 4?) straight. And Boba did a 4 straight himself. The formation did 2 straights and boosted, because 5,5+5 is below 11, and indeed was just out of range. Lulo bank boosted northeast after his 2 straight, allowing him to go straight and get close.
Turn 2: Nr4  had to1 hard west to get in front of the rock, as a 3 bank would not have fit. Numbers 1-3 3banked and boosted left. Lulo did his 4 straight boost right (5 would not allow me to boost closer). His Boba came closer with a 2 straight. Sadly he didn't bump because he was a bit at an angle, maybe wiggle room, maybe accident, but definitely not intentionally. Anyway, that meant my Nr2 was basically a goner. Teroch did a 2 hard and landed nicely in all my arcs. During the fight I traded A-wing nr2 for Teroch and part of or even half the Pioneer. That was a great start for me.
Turn 3: His escape craft did a 1 bank left facing now east and taking a focus. 1 and 3 2 harded right. That  did not get the Pioneer into arc, so I turned boosted north west and turned the arc. No modded shots for them! Boba's 1 hard right to face west fit before the rock. Lulo did a 2 hard south and boosted SE. The 2hard left next turn still fit before the rock, and allowed me to roll left or right depending on his Boba. Anyway, the escape craft was taken out, too, and now it was 4 A-wings vs Boba.

The rest of the game was a learning experience on how many rerolls Boba gets: Marauder, my ships in range 1 or lone wolf. I brought him down to 3hull but lost Lulo and another generic in the process. But two Awings are more than the 56points of half Boba plus bid, even 1,5 Awings are 59 including bid. There was no chance to lose it, but I didn't want to run for 40min. Knowing win conditions and all that. I didn't dare to run for 40 min as it was just a league game, but I would have at a tournament if it counted there.

Conclusion: What can I say, the game went to time and Boba survived after being the only ship since turn 3, and on half points since turn 6 I think. I tried to overwhelm him, but that didn't work. I did not play my best, but I think it's really an uphill battle. I didn't block enough, I didn't get enough shots. But he also rerolls so much that I don't get through his 2 agility.

Image 1: Setup

XjkO7lK.jpg

Image 2: turn 2, first turn of combat. Teroch and nr2 plopped.

7MenTyS.jpg

Edited by GreenDragoon

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2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

League Game 12.1.19 (from mobile, will edit)

4+1

vs

BobaTerochPioneer

Opponent's deciding action and my target priority: Teroch takes my tokens, so I take 4hull Teroch first. The shuttle makes Boba more resistant, so I take the shuttle down next. And then I run, because I won't be able to take Boba down.

Deployment: Too many rocks!  See image 1. I decided that I prefer to start the fight in the NE part of the map, were there are not so many rocks. That meansLulo in the SW corner, the rest in the SE corner. He deployed in the eastern part of the end: Teroch in middle end, then the Pioneer further east, then Boba.

The gameplan for the first turns: Fake a joust with Boba, let him bump and focus down Teroch. If possible only using rear arcs, otherwise front.

How it went:

Turn1: 3s, boost on teroch. 3s and 4s boba. Me 2s+boost (calculated!). Lulo bank boost

Turn 2: 4 1h left, 1-3 3bank boost left. 5 4s boost right. He: boba 2s, teroch 2h left, pioneer 1bank. Fight: traded an awing for teroch and half pioneer.

 

The rest of the game was a learning experience on how many rerolls Boba gets: marauder, my ships in range 1, lone wolf. I brought him down to 3hull but lost Lulo and another generic in the process. But two Awings are more than the 56points of half Boba plus bid, even 1,5 Awings are 59 including bid. There was no chance to lose it, but I didn't want to run for 40min.

Image 1: Setup

XjkO7lK.jpg

Image 2: turn 2, first turn of combat. Teroch and nr2 plopped.

7MenTyS.jpg

Nice of them to let you proxy RZ-2s with a pair of RZ-1s. Looks like it was a fun game. :) Camera angle in the second image hiding the stress token from Boba's reinforce?

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1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

Nice of them to let you proxy RZ-2s with a pair of RZ-1s. Looks like it was a fun game. :) Camera angle in the second image hiding the stress token from Boba's reinforce?

I have 5, but 3 are getting repainted. I also had the XXXx list as backup incase he didn't want me to. But it was just a league game, not a tournament. I think he coordinated the reinforce and did a blue straight, then focused? It was a bit strange.

Also I'm re-writing the first two turns currently, now that I'm at a computer.

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5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I have 5, but 3 are getting repainted. I also had the XXXx list as backup incase he didn't want me to. But it was just a league game, not a tournament. I think he coordinated the reinforce and did a blue straight, then focused? It was a bit strange.

Also I'm re-writing the first two turns currently, now that I'm at a computer.

Pioneer is I3 so it works. Was just a little odd to me seeing the reinforce token and not seeing a stress token with it.

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11 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Pioneer is I3 so it works. Was just a little odd to me seeing the reinforce token and not seeing a stress token with it.

I meant his choice of actions was strange. At least that way he didn't have to GunnerHan and had the 1hard open. Still, I didn't quite get it. A-wings never do more than 1 damage anyway against all of Boba's rerolls, and reinforce doesn't help him there.

Edit: maybe he really believed that I would straight on joust Boba and ignore Teroch with his torpedo. But in my opinion, I have no chance of taking down Boba. If I compare that to my XXXx game against Boba Guri, it's a world of difference! They brought him down in 2 turns, and their double mods put 1-2 or even 3 damage per turn on him. Here, the A-wings deal 0-1 damage per turn. He just rerolls everything, all the time! It's the first time I felt without any chance against an opponent's ship. As for Teroch, he is horrible with his control, the torpedo is the worst offense threat, and the 4hull behind 3 greens with just one possible focus is much, much easier to take out than Boba could ever be.

As unrelated side note: never triggered Heroic, not once. The 5 dice+focus roll with 4 blanks hurt. My reds were hot in the beginning, but that's just my list. I get the 2 hits, it's weird if I don't.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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Comment on upgrade choices on Lulo:

By now I'm doubting Lone Wolf on Lulo again. Alternatives are AdvOptics on Lulo, or Trickshot for everyone.

Here are the thoughts:

  • Pro Lone Wolf
    • Lone Wolf is strictly better than Advanced Optics on Lulo (2+ hits: 95% vs 94%, 3 hits: 75% vs 61%)
      • - IF it triggers!
    • Also use for defense, which is very, very valuable!
    • The focus for Optics can't be spent as freely and automatically as on the generics, because there are many shots coming after Lulo's
  • Con
    • hard to trigger with 4 wingmen around

Trickshot as third option is something I have to learn. Currently I am convinced that it would be the best choice if I could use it intentionally and properly. But I can't, which makes trickshot worse than either lone wolf or Optics. Other Talent choices are predator and Elusive. But Elusive is basically once per game because doing red maneuvers is usually wrong. And predator... maybe? Unfortunately predator+optics doesn't fit by one point. That would push Lulo to 83% chance of 3 hits. Which is as good as the 2hits for the generics.

For now, I might give Optics on Lulo another try. I want to emphasize that I only consider that because the generics already have optics! Otherwise they would get it first.

 

Edit: a practical downside of Optics is that I have only 4 from the conversion kits. And I should keep in mind that the version with LoneWolfLulo also has a quite good win%, all things considered.
Right now I'm thinking along a different line: don't replace it with something as expensive. Instead, take a larger bid. Here's why: Predator is - of course - as good for offense as lone wolf. Again if it triggers, but that "if" is smaller in my experience and hands.

The initial idea of lone wolf was after all that I would not include Lulo in the opening engagement. But I rarely did that if ever, and it doesn't pay off as much. As side note, I think that's an interesting thought exercise. How many points were really used and necessary in the first engagement or even during the whole game? E.g. a ship with 2 bombs can only use one. A ship with 2 different missiles/torpedoes/cannons can only use one. And so on. Anyway, back to Lulo. What I did several times, and what worked, was to flank with Lulo and get the Lonewolf on the first engagement. However, there it was not always necessary, and I did not use it as often and reliably afterwards. If you look at the last game played, Lulo did have bullseye on Teroch. So that engagement (where I didn't need either, anyway) would not have changed one bit. It would have improved later shots.

However!

Predator is bullseye, and bullseye upgrades on A2wings are a rather bad idea. So I might give trickshot on Lulo a serious chance. 4 red and 3 green sounds quite good to me.

The important question is now: why not both? Why not Optics AND trickshot? I don't really have an answer. I don't care as much about the ini bid, and I can't seriously bid anyway. It also barely changes anything from the current 43 to then 44pt Lulo. The alternative is then of course 5x trickshot instead of optics on Lulo. And that is a tricky choice which brings be back to the beginning. I think a better player should take the trickshots. But I should - for now - use optics+trickshot on Lulo.

These are my current thoughts on upgrade choice for Lulo.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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Winstreak game nr7

Vassal, 13.1.19

4+1 v2.2
vs
RecoilBackdraftScorchLongshot

Opponent's determining action and my target priority: Don't let Recoil fire his protonrockets! But he will be hard to take out. Don't play the chasing game with Backdraft. The other two... In the end they are ships with 3red dice! So their offense is not really worse, but they die faster. Which means to me that I take them out first. Then probably Backdraft. Recoil... well, he is less than 2 A-wings, so I should be fine. If I trade 3 ships against 3 ships then I'm ahead and perfectly happy.

Deployment: Too many rocks!  See image. I decided that I don't want to joust stright away, but also not fight in my west. So the feigned flight it was.

The gameplan for the first turns: Run, turn around, and remove the FOs.

How it went: I'll add the text later. That was a lucky quick one. You can get an idea from the images though.

Setup:
XDR3LJq.png

Turn 1: Didn't want to joust, preferred to force him to slow down. Which he did, except for Recoil. My luck!
AXdcINX.png

Turn 3: you can see my maneuvers for turn 4, where he lost Longshot for a shield on the green Awing.

KxwIoKm.png

Turn 5: here we stopped the game. At this point I had lost 3 shields and he 2 ships plus 2 shield on Backdraft.

WWqKGtB.png

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Nice to see some more bat reps, I must admit not having played the 5  Awings as of yet, I still prefer my T-70 in the mix. 

Have also not played mine against Boba yet, so have that to look forwards to 🙂 

As for EPT on L'ulo, yaeh it's pretty difficult, I had Heroic, as she is nearly always stressed, so helps with the 2 Green dice,  and the other has changed from Crack, to Trick shot, and cannot work out which is better. Guess it is what is best for you, 

Also have not tried optics on my Greens yet, as I feel the points seem realy high for them. But agian have not tried them, so hard to say.

Must say tho, having much fun flying the A wings.

 

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On 1/13/2019 at 1:16 AM, GreenDragoon said:

By now I'm doubting Lone Wolf on Lulo again. Alternatives are AdvOptics on Lulo, or Trickshot for everyone.

I’ve only played 2x games with 5x A-Wings so far.  The second game I ran Tallie, Lulo, and 3x GSEs all with Heroic and AO.  I liked the way it flew with two I5 A-awings flying together.  I got two uses out of Tallie’s ability, and only triggered Heroic once.  To be fair it was against a newer player with a suboptimal list.  Tallie felt like she added more to the list than any Talent would.

The first game was 4x Heroic/AO GSEs and Heroic/Intimidation/AO Zari against an Echo/Sloane + Crack Swarm.  This game didn’t go well as I gave him initiative and then proceed to get hard blocked all game.

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