Jump to content
Velvetelvis

Now that all factions only have about 4 ships for tournaments...

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I agree, but I think it's important to add "for now". Entire archetypes are removed for now, at the very beginning of hyperspace.

That is a deeper issue than it first seems IMO. 'For now' applies and will continue to apply both ways to Hyperspace (some archetypes don't exist 'for now', while all others also exist 'for now'). You can't pick a faction based on a playstyle you like, as there is no guarantee that playstyle will persist in the next rotation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

That is a deeper issue than it first seems IMO. 'For now' applies and will continue to apply both ways to Hyperspace (some archetypes don't exist 'for now', while all others also exist 'for now'). You can't pick a faction based on a playstyle you like, as there is no guarantee that playstyle will persist in the next rotation. 

Yes, but then this applies in my opinion:

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

But this time, you have an alternative officially supported game format and soon 6 other factions if your preferred faction lacks something in hyperspace

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Yes, but then this applies in my opinion:

 

I agree in the context of the whole 2.0, but that doesn't change the fact that not knowing how faction identities will evolve in that format is a problem for Hyperspace, IMO at least. 

Edited by LordBlades

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you always have extended to fall back upon, or another faction.

The scenario you are outlining is a combination where

  • it has to be faction X,
    • here what SOTL and others said applies: don't limit yourself to one faction, or play extended
  • it has to be archetype Y,
    • what I said applies: play the archetype in another faction or extended
  • and Extended is somehow dead

If they all occur at the same time... well, that's an unlikely bridge we can cross when we get to it. To anguish over it now means to make yourself unhappy for no reason.

I do agree that rotations can be problematic in the sense that they require a bit more flexibility. Which I see as good thing, but I understand when someone does not. I was perfectly happy playing near to 200 games with my imperial list in 1.0, and it never got old or boring. I really understand the appeal. But this time, we get an officially supported format where I can keep playing e.g. Awings if they are rotated out.

I still fail to see how the things we know and don't know can lead to so much anxiety over a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

I agree in the context of the whole 2.0, but that doesn't change the fact that not knowing how faction identities will evolve in that format is a problem for Hyperspace, IMO at least. 

I agree with a lot of what @GreenDragoon wrote, but to an extent it's also a matter of specific-ness. **** "specificity" it sounds even worse than a made-up word

Here's some examples:

1. "My favorite playstyle is fast aces with high HP pools." > Exists in hyperspace, just play FO/Res.

2. "My favorite playstyle is Rebel fast aces with high HP pools." > Doesn't exist in hyperspace, you'll have to settle for Resistance.

3. "My favorite playstyle is E-Wings." > Doesn't exist in hyperspace, you've gotten too specific. 

(This is also the exact opposite of the variety thing - "hyperspace has less variety" isn't really relevant if your objective is to play nothing but one ship or one archetype.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, svelok said:

I agree with a lot of what @GreenDragoon wrote, but to an extent it's also a matter of specific-ness. **** "specificity" it sounds even worse than a made-up word

Here's some examples:

1. "My favorite playstyle is fast aces with high HP pools." > Exists in hyperspace, just play FO/Res.

2. "My favorite playstyle is Rebel fast aces with high HP pools." > Doesn't exist in hyperspace, you'll have to settle for Resistance.

3. "My favorite playstyle is E-Wings." > Doesn't exist in hyperspace, you've gotten too specific. 

(This is also the exact opposite of the variety thing - "hyperspace has less variety" isn't really relevant if your objective is to play nothing but one ship or one archetype.)

It's not only about specificity, but also about resources. I don't think it's reasonable to expect all but the most dedicated to collect and play all 7 factions. 

Consider your 1st example. The solution is pretty useless to a guy who only collects the OT factions or even a guy who collects all but the sequel factions. It's only a solution for somebody who already has FO/Resistance or is willing to start a new faction. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, svelok said:

I agree with a lot of what @GreenDragoon wrote, but to an extent it's also a matter of specific-ness. **** "specificity" it sounds even worse than a made-up word

Here's some examples:

1. "My favorite playstyle is fast aces with high HP pools." > Exists in hyperspace, just play FO/Res.

2. "My favorite playstyle is Rebel fast aces with high HP pools." > Doesn't exist in hyperspace, you'll have to settle for Resistance.

3. "My favorite playstyle is E-Wings." > Doesn't exist in hyperspace, you've gotten too specific. 

(This is also the exact opposite of the variety thing - "hyperspace has less variety" isn't really relevant if your objective is to play nothing but one ship or one archetype.)

Why isn't Luke/Thane/Wedge close enough to fast Aces with HP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Why isn't Luke/Thane/Wedge close enough to fast Aces with HP?

Because it is not an E-Wing or A-Wing, do they fly the same , do they have the same abilities,  why does it have to be "close enough" to your choice, why cant yours be close enough to my choice.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont mind hyperspace, but I also want the ability to use other ships in events.  I have been waiting for 2nd edition to give me a chance to use E-Wings and other ships.  I really dont give a dam if they are in the movies or not.   If they wanted to end some of the ships for 2.0 they should have announced it and not put those ships into the conversion kits.  They did however include them, therefore many people have spent the money to have the ability to play those ships, maybe they would not have spent that money if they knew those ships were not going to be available.  At present they seem to have two tiers off play Hyperspace and Extended. that is fine as long as both are supported and have the same opportunities, both in local events and national events.  I expect my game store to run a combination of events that will satisfy the needs of all the players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SOTL said:

Not every faction is going to be good all the time.  We know that is true from 1.0 and it's going to be even more true with 7 factions to cycle through in 2.0.  

In 1.0 you had a 1/3 chance of being able to play the best thing in a wave, in 2.0 it's only 1/7 chance and you could easily be waiting two years for your faction to get the love.

My recommendation, and it's not just me but you'll hear this from most of the podcasts too, is to follow 2 or ideally 3 factions.

Follow one faction and you're likely to have extended periods of misery and will only have yourself to blame because Christ knows enough people tried to warn you.

Or just quit the competitive scene. I've kept this in my mind as an option since 2.0 launched. 

With 1.0, I could keep up with all the releases, and be familiar with all the lists, since I could field the ships and upgrades for them. Playing with them and against them. I don't think that's going to be an option in 2.0, except for the most dedicated players. That's not me. I have neither the time nor the money to keep current on 5-7 factions.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah there's gonna be bleed out of players, maybe 30-40% of the old player base - that's clear in how many ppl you see selling collections.  But we've already seen returning and new players more than make up for those who move on - that's clear in that the ppl selling collections always find buyers pretty quickly.

UK system open sold a record 650 tickets in like two days or something, so the gains clearly outweigh the losses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Yeah there's gonna be bleed out of players, maybe 30-40% of the old player base - that's clear in how many ppl you see selling collections.  But we've already seen returning and new players more than make up for those who move on - that's clear in that the ppl selling collections always find buyers pretty quickly.

UK system open sold a record 650 tickets in like two days or something, so the gains clearly outweigh the losses.

I'm far more interested in how Wave 2 has sold compared to similar sales of 1.0 waves. I doubt we'll have access to such data, but it would be interesting to compare.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, SOTL said:

 

UK system open sold a record 650 tickets in like two days or something, so the gains clearly outweigh the losses.

Don't UK system opens usually sell out rather quickly though? Which means the number of people buying tickets has a hard limit set by the organizers. 

 

I think a more telling metric of growth would be attendance (this year vs last year) of tournaments that don't sell out, as the number of participants is limited by player interest, rather than available seats. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

I'm far more interested in how Wave 2 has sold compared to similar sales of 1.0 waves. I doubt we'll have access to such data, but it would be interesting to compare.

 

I don't think overall wave sales data is a meaningful metric due to the way waves are constructed in 1.0 vs. 2.0.

 

In 1.0 every wave except wave 6 had stuff for all factions, which means that, ideally, every player would be offered something. 

 

In 2.0 however all waves so far have been covering only some factions. Take wave 2 for example. It offers nothing to Rebel and Imperial players unless they wish to also collect Resistance/FO in 2.0 so it might sell worse than a 1.0 wave ragardless whether the player base has increased or decreased. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

I'm far more interested in how Wave 2 has sold compared to similar sales of 1.0 waves. I doubt we'll have access to such data, but it would be interesting to compare.

 

Which 1st edition wave are you holding in question? If you are talking Wave 2 then it is a safe bet to say that 2nd edition wave 2 sets outsold the 1st edition wave 2 during launch as X-wing has much more exposure. Now for financials that is a different story, depends on how much it cost to make 2nd edition wave 2 as 1st edition would have lower costs due to lower sales expectations.

Now for Wave 7 stuff again the T-70 and TIE/FO were also in a new Core set. So there might be a case where the other 2 1st edition expansion sales are much lower due to the fact many players just got a TFA core set instead of the individual expansions. However as the sales of the expansions might be lower the number of 1st edition models might be higher than the number of 2nd edition T-70 and TIE/FO because of that reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extended will not be an available format.

Me " hey guys let's play x wing. I brought a guri list I'm excited to play."

The entirety of the player base " eh..no thanks. Tournaments are coming up. We are practicing hyperspace."

Me." Oh ok.thats cool. I'll play extended with the other casuals"

Looks around.....sees empty game store.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Velvetelvis said:

The entirety of the player base " eh..no thanks. Tournaments are coming up. We are practicing hyperspace."

Half of the tournaments are Extended.

1 minute ago, Velvetelvis said:

Me." Oh ok.thats cool. I'll play extended with the other casuals"

Looks around.....sees empty game store.

FFG can't help it if your local group wants something different from what you do

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, svelok said:

FFG can't help it if your local group wants something different from what you do

FFG strongly influences what people play by having different formats and tournaments. During our local leagues, we have oddball formats, but as we get closer to a big event, players start pulling out their meta lists and practicing with them. This thread exists because there are two different tournament formats competing for player attention.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

FFG strongly influences what people play by having different formats and tournaments. During our local leagues, we have oddball formats, but as we get closer to a big event, players start pulling out their meta lists and practicing with them. This thread exists because there are two different tournament formats competing for player attention.

 

But that's not true, because Hyperspace and Extended seasons will only rarely overlap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, svelok said:

Half of the tournaments are Extended.

 

That is incorrect. 

 

Talking big tournaments, currently extended is only played in the main events of the System Opens, which also use Hyperspace for the side events. Everything else (whatever Regionals and Nationals are called nowadays) is Hyperspace, and there's way more of those than System Opens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LordBlades said:

That is incorrect. 

 

Talking big tournaments, currently extended is only played in the main events of the System Opens, which also use Hyperspace for the side events. Everything else (whatever Regionals and Nationals are called nowadays) is Hyperspace, and there's way more of those than System Opens. 

Store Champs (wave kits) and Seasonal kits are extended, and much more common than regionals, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×