Grand Admiral Thrawn 2 Ship

[carthwolf 45]

Alright everyone. We're at the drawing board again looking for a list for an up comming regionals event. I'm tossing around two different ideas for a list I'd like to see in action. For now I'm going to focus the first one as I think it probably has more survivability in the Long term vs the meta of MCU type lists. The last regionals I attended had an average of 5 Activations per list with someone close to 7. I ran 3 actiavtions last time and I honestly didnt feel like it was THAT bad. 

Here is my first attempt at a 2 list ship using Thrawn as the admiral. 

 

Scarif Point Defense 

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400  

Commander: Grand Admiral Thrawn

Assault Objective: Close-Range Intel Scan
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

 

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Grand Admiral Thrawn  ( 32  points) 
-  Avenger  ( 5  points) 
-  Governor Pryce  ( 7  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 192 total ship cost

 

Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
-  Squall  ( 3  points) 
-  Captain Brunson  ( 5  points) 
-  Flight Controllers  ( 6  points) 
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points) 
= 72 total ship cost

 

1 Dengar ( 20 points) 
1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points) 
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points) 
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points) 
1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points) 
1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points) 
1 Darth Vader ( 21 points) 
1 TIE Fighter Squadron ( 8 points) 
= 134 total squadron cost

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

Looking competitive!  The only important thing missing is Morna Kee, who hits ships like a truck.  I’d personally drop XI7s for a better bid; they’ll be getting their money’s worth out of redirects just by using them against your bombers.  Contested Outpost isn’t great here either; it telegraphs your position, and the ISD can’t babysit for too long (the Quasar can, but it’s not particularly safe to begin with, and they’ll gain victory tokens if they kill it there.). I’d go with Planetary Ion Cannon, which is nice and reliable.

 If @Karneck has any advice, heed it.  He’s been flying a mean Thrawn two-ship lately.

[Andylicious 11]

I'm toying around with a fleet like this one myself. The most meaningful difference between my idea and your idea (besides objectives) is that I have gone pretty light on upgrades for a 18 point bid. I haven't actually flown the list yet, but it feels to me like a list that wants to go first. 
The squad ball feels a bit Sloaney. I think you should look for squadrons that hit ships a bit better. 

This was my first draft for a squad ball for a Thrawn 2-ship that expects to fling 4 squads with the Quesar on the Pryce turn. I don't know if its good yet tho  

Squadrons:
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Morna Kee (27)
• JumpMaster 5000 (12)
• Tempest Squadron (13)
• Gamma Squadron (10)
• TIE Defender Squadron (16)
= 134 Points

Edited December 19, 2018 by Andylicious

[Cleto0 219]

Thrawn 2 ship is good, I just wish people would stop net listing it because it is good. If you are going to run it *sigh* then switch to morna kee and drop X17 like previously stated... there is  a case to be made for putting on spinals to completely get rid of bid so that you can beat out other pryces, as I would expect a lot of her. Just an idea.

@The Jabbawookie

[Karneck 1,990]

Honestly 2 ship squads / ISD load out is to taste. 

But yes, ditch CO, it does nothing for you.

The reason for fighter ambush on most lists is to use it to farm tokens. Honestly almost all other lists out deploy you, so saving fighters for deployments usually doesn't help you. 

 

Otherwise 2 ship is not a grab and go list. It takes a lot of practice to fly well unless you're already a seasoned armada player, and even then. Practice.

 

You need, to know exactly which turn to leverage Pryce and Thrawns dials.

[carthwolf 45]

@Andylicious I think I agree with you that my squadrons probably fair a bit better in a Sloane build. I flew sloane at the last regionals and really liked how this ball worked against my opponents. I was able to chew up all the squadrons with barely losing anything in between. Looking at your suggestion I made some modifacations and threw this together. It changes your jumpmaster to Dengar for the scatter, but we lose the ability to have the defender. Do you think this is too much of a cost?

Squadrons:
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Morna Kee (27)
• Tempest Squadron (13)
• 2 x TIE Bomber Squadron (18)
• Dengar (20)
= 134 Points

 

[carthwolf 45]

@The Jabbawookie Thanks :). If you remember from my first post I was tossing the idea around of a Thrawn list, but I was under the impression that Thrawn needed 4 ships to truly be optimized. I think now that might not be the case and his ability to be slicer proof on a list like this is really interesting. I still dont know how confident I am with Pryce play or even going 1st. I think I prefer being the 2nd player and using objective cards to help farm points. I do think that being a Squadron list it is more valuable being 1st player though so you can take out some of you opponents squadrons first. 

In terms of Objectives do you think Fighter Ambush would be fine here?

[carthwolf 45]

@Karneck Do you think just a Demo, Quasar, and Gozanti's could be a strong/survivable over an ISD? It's the 2nd list I've been tossing around. 

[Death004 5]

1 hour ago, carthwolf said:

@Karneck Do you think just a Demo, Quasar, and Gozanti's could be a strong/survivable over an ISD? It's the 2nd list I've been tossing around. 

I don't really think so, especially if you are going against a similar build. The mentioned 3 ship build would not fare good against a two ship build like the first one you are considering. The determining factor would be which player goes first, because you would both be running similar builds (I'm assuming you're gonna put squall on the quasar no matter what build). In either case I think running 3-5 activations (depending on how many gozanti's you run) has it's benefits... But it REALLY depends on how you like to fly your ships, and your general play-style.

[Death004 5]

3 hours ago, carthwolf said:

@Andylicious I think I agree with you that my squadrons probably fair a bit better in a Sloane build. I flew sloane at the last regionals and really liked how this ball worked against my opponents. I was able to chew up all the squadrons with barely losing anything in between. Looking at your suggestion I made some modifacations and threw this together. It changes your jumpmaster to Dengar for the scatter, but we lose the ability to have the defender. Do you think this is too much of a cost?

Squadrons:
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Morna Kee (27)
• Tempest Squadron (13)
• 2 x TIE Bomber Squadron (18)
• Dengar (20)
= 134 Points

 

Have you considered including Major Rhymer? He adds major (well... after the nerf maybe not major) range to your squads, And because of the buff, Morna Kee can literally hit like a CR90 Corvette B, range, dice and all. I would consider dropping two of the TIE bombers to make room for Rhymer if you choose him. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Death004
I want to add more stuff.

[Karneck 1,990]

20 minutes ago, Death004 said:

I don't really think so, especially if you are going against a similar build. The mentioned 3 ship build would not fare good against a two ship build like the first one you are considering. The determining factor would be which player goes first, because you would both be running similar builds (I'm assuming you're gonna put squall on the quasar no matter what build). In either case I think running 3-5 activations (depending on how many gozanti's you run) has it's benefits... But it REALLY depends on how you like to fly your ships, and your general play-style.

A Sloane, Demo, QF, 2 goz list is what took 1st at Portland Regionals beating me by 1TP (although we didn't face each other).

 

It's not that it can't work, but you have two ships that can't weather sustained fire and must rely on out maneuvering opponents. 

Because all it takes is for them to split your ship choice where if one moves, the other dies.

 

Ultimately, you can win with what you fly with, but understand what your strengths and weaknesses are.

 

2 ship has weaknesses like any other list.

[carthwolf 45]

@Karneck I really liked what won Portland and I’d love to fly the demo, but I don’t think I’m well versed enough in the game... like I told people in Portland I’ve only been playing for a few weeks, but I pick things up fairly quickly. I’ve liked the way the 2 ship lists look, but I’ve also only used flotillas for comma net and activation padding. 

I raelized in the last regionals though that I was activating my flotillas last because I needed to use the squadrons first which made me think the 2 ship list is the way to go.

[Cleto0 219]

 

22 hours ago, Karneck said:

Otherwise 2 ship is not a grab and go list. It takes a lot of practice to fly well unless you're already a seasoned armada player, and even then. Practice.

 

Of course a good list like this takes practice, it is expected, but I think it is obnoxious to run the exact same list as other people. Change it up a bit. Maybe I’m wrong, but I hate when 8 people show up and have the same list, give or take an upgrade

[Karneck 1,990]

8 hours ago, carthwolf said:

@Karneck I really liked what won Portland and I’d love to fly the demo, but I don’t think I’m well versed enough in the game... like I told people in Portland I’ve only been playing for a few weeks, but I pick things up fairly quickly. I’ve liked the way the 2 ship lists look, but I’ve also only used flotillas for comma net and activation padding. 

I raelized in the last regionals though that I was activating my flotillas last because I needed to use the squadrons first which made me think the 2 ship list is the way to go.

2 ship absolutely hinges on using Pryce correctly and it requires understanding the board state after deployment. She's the reason the list doesn't need activation padding, and Thrawn is slicer proof. Hence the ditching of the flotillas. You're wanting the ISD to move before a flotilla when it counts. 2 ship doesn't have to worry about it.

But any misstep and you'll see the ISD go down in flames.

 

At the end of the day fly what seems fun and don't worry about what is meta. New lists are carefully crafted and playtested for months. 2 ship was brewed for like 7 months by its creators and I smashed it in its early stages, then it smashed me over and over as I tried many list types against it.

Some things worked well, most didn't.

 

So as I've said before, practice.

[Karneck 1,990]

1 hour ago, Cleto0 said:

 

Of course a good list like this takes practice, it is expected, but I think it is obnoxious to run the exact same list as other people. Change it up a bit. Maybe I’m wrong, but I hate when 8 people show up and have the same list, give or take an upgrade

I don't think it's obnoxious at all. But that is only my opinion and I can understand why you feel that way. I feel the same way about Rieekan Aces because its been around FOR 3 YEARS.

2 ship is a ton of fun to play. One wrong move and you get tabled, it is a high risk high reward list, Which appeals to many players. It is also a highly tuned list archetype, some parts of it simpley won't work if you toss things out and toss other things in (Again, the list was developed over a period of 7 months).

It also turns the meta on its head, which only causes more players to develop new archetypes to fly. Which in turn turns the meta and so on.

 

In the end, at Premier level events. Most Players are showing up with lists they feel are going to WIN and win big, not a random list for fun. (Hello Rieekan aces 3 years in a row winning worlds).

[Andylicious 11]

@carthwolf Difficult to say. I really like Defenders. The ball I made hits just slightly harder vs enemy squads, but yours have Dengar to keep Intel around longer for the Mauler double tap and a better anti-ship output by a bit. I would want to test the list vs squad builds, but I think both work.

[carthwolf 45]

@The JabbawookieJabbawookie I've been seeing these 2 ship lists popping up more and more. Makes me want to just go straight Sloane with better squadron ships and go back to boarding troopers to win the ship fight. Thoughts?

I'd really like to have boba Fett somewhere, but the only list I've seen him in is  @CommanderDave (tagged this captain guy by accident and can't delete it )@captaindave

Edited December 22, 2018 by carthwolf

[LordTesla 287]

Boba is nice too but unless you fling him into the fray on turn 1 you're spending alot of points for an ability that at best will generate 5 damage a game.

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

1 hour ago, carthwolf said:

@The JabbawookieJabbawookie I've been seeing these 2 ship lists popping up more and more. Makes me want to just go straight Sloane with better squadron ships and go back to boarding troopers to win the ship fight. Thoughts?

 

Sloane two ship is what I’m running competitively, and it’s pretty great.  It can table triple large and dual ISD + heavy TIEs, and even chase down Admo.

It’s also a lot weaker to Slicer Tools and can’t do nav commands (SFO took Brunson’s chair in my fleet,) in addition to the other flaws of two ship.  The ISD gets one token round one, and that’s often it.  In general I take first when possible (and there’s room for a strong bid,) set the ISD out at 2, set Pryce for round two and speed up for a first last + 8 squads.  I opted for Gunnery Team because it will reliably double your attack and Maarek can spend braces anyway.

[carthwolf 45]

@The Jabbawookie how far off is my list from yours if I went Sloane?

Edited December 22, 2018 by carthwolf

[CommanderDave 429]

Morna is better than Boba, but Boba is solid. He is an upgrade over a generic Firespray for bombing damage and for anti squadron damage. He’s much more dangerous to scatter Aces than some of the alternatives. His special ability is a nice bonus, but don’t look at it as anything but that. Still, nice to have a free damage or two to Ciena or Shara.

He is at his best paired with Morna (and probably Maarek/Jendon) with some extra support mixed in. I can’t speak highly enough of MMJ + Ciena, Boba, and a Firespray for really solid bombing damage. It will lose against Sloane Aces or Rieekan Aces though unless you’ve got some other factor (Flechette Demo).

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

7 hours ago, carthwolf said:

@The Jabbawookie how far off is my list from yours if I went Sloane?

I’m second on standby for Vancouver regionals, so there’s a chance you’ll find out soon enough.  For that reason, the exact list needs to be a trade secret until the 5th, I’m sorry to say.

[carthwolf 45]

51 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I’m second on standby for Vancouver regionals, so there’s a chance you’ll find out soon enough.  For that reason, the exact list needs to be a trade secret until the 5th, I’m sorry to say.

Nice. Didn’t realize you were a PNW player. Where you based out of?

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

17 minutes ago, carthwolf said:

Nice. Didn’t realize you were a PNW player. Where you based out of?

Seattle.  You?

[Ginkapo 9,321]

18 minutes ago, carthwolf said:

Nice. Didn’t realize you were a PNW player. Where you based out of?

https://intelsweep.wordpress.com/2018/11/22/the-overnight-report-polish-nationals/

https://intelsweep.wordpress.com/2018/08/26/the-overnight-report-uk-nationals/

Chances are high its going to have had influences from these two lists, so hey, whilst you wait to see what Jabba has concocted, enjoy these.