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karatechop

How to make Destiny better

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I've been a Destiny fan for a long time.  However, I've had a couple issues with the game:

1)  Phasing out Awakenings, SOR, and EAW.  I spent a lot of money on the first 3 sets, before FFG made the Holocron announcements.  I'm fine with the Infinity, Standard, and Trilogy formats.  However, I'm a little upset that my old cards are useless, and there's not too many Infinity tournaments in my area.  How about if FFG makes a format where they pick which sets/blocks we can use from all sets released so far?  At least our old cards wouldn't be totally useless.

2)  I can't tell you how many friends I've introduced this game too where they buy cards/start sets, only to find out cards have been errata'd after the first game.  The sheer frustration alone on this one thing has been enough to keep most of my friends from being fully committed to to this game after making what they think are awesome decks.  I'm not sure what the solution is, but I like what AEG does which is to insert updated errata'd cards in the next sets. Or maybe at the very least make them as tournament promo cards or something.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

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1 - Games need rotation, it's healthy for a game. Have you seen all the Smoke Thrawn nonsense lately? You get that kind of stuff when you have a larger card pool and FFG isn't the strongest at testing. So for their premier format, standard, they need rotation.

I too invested in Awkenings block cards, but I'm happy. My cards kept their value and playability a lot longer than other games I've played(look at how long your value is kept in Yu-Gi-Oh! Before you judge Destiny). Most importantly, I had fun with my cards when they were new! They announced the rotation a year ago and I got to enjoy my cards a year atop that! That's pretty good imo. And not like they disappeared, I can still whip out my old cards for casual games(like my eLuke1/Rey1 Deck!) And have fun. Sure I'll lose, but that's not the point.

As for infinite format events, how would you know if you are or aren't going to have events for the format near you? It and Standard are currently one in the same!  Granted, I suspect Standard to be still standard but Infinite will be around too just like trilogy is now. And I wouldn't say your cards are going to be worthless depending on how much you invested, some stuff like The Best Defense, Second Chances, or Force Illusions will definitely still be staples even alongside new cards because of their high power level(which is again why they need a rotation). They might take  hit, but if they keep up Infinite then as those cards become more and more scarce they could rebound or even increase down the line if the game lasts long enough!

2- Errata is the lesser of 2 evils imo. Continuing with the need to keep a meta healthy sometimes they make cards that simply are way too powerful and Rotation isn't anytime soon. What to do? If you leave the card alone(like Smoke) he'll warp the Meta around him, which you don't want. Your option then is to ban or nerf. I have played a bit of every TCG and I will always prefer an errata(nerf) to a Ban! A ban means that I can still get to play with the card that I spent money on. Look at Snoke, even after a Ban you can still run him with Bitter Rivalry(or in the case of Sabine they just ran calling in favors). But look at a game like Yu-Gi-Oh, they just banned  card called Firewall Dragon, a card that was selling for $90 at one point. Banning a card that expensive is damaging to your player base and NOT something I think any game should do. So instead, errata! Make a cards ability more fair, up their points, etc. Sure it's a pain, but thanks to resources like swdestinydb it's really not even a hassle either(imo).

Now I agree they could do some reprints with corrected text, but not sure FFG knows where to print them since printing them in the next set again would "eat" slots for other cards in the production of a new set and they would extend their life in a rotating format. But this isn't a big deal to me, just remember the errata. There really isn't that much imo.

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Errata is a problem for a new player who builds a deck and wants to play it because he didn't realise the card had been changed. Of course I think the answer here is to play on regardless. After all a new player will have enough problems without adding to them.

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19 hours ago, Atomisk said:

1 - ....As for infinite format events, how would you know if you are or aren't going to have events for the format near you?...

It's simple.  I asked my 5 of my local game stores.  They flat out said "no" or "probably not."  So they might have it GenCon or the NA Championships,but that's about it for all I can see in the foreseeable future.  They will only do Trilogy (2 stores will hold a standard format once a quarter).

 

19 hours ago, Atomisk said:

2- Errata is the lesser of 2 evils imo. Continuing with the need to keep a meta healthy sometimes they make cards that simply are way too powerful and Rotation isn't anytime soon. What to do? If you leave the card alone(like Smoke) he'll warp the Meta around him, which you don't want. Your option then is to ban or nerf. I have played a bit of every TCG and I will always prefer an errata(nerf) to a Ban! A ban means that I can still get to play with the card that I spent money on. Look at Snoke, even after a Ban you can still run him with Bitter Rivalry(or in the case of Sabine they just ran calling in favors). But look at a game like Yu-Gi-Oh, they just banned  card called Firewall Dragon, a card that was selling for $90 at one point. Banning a card that expensive is damaging to your player base and NOT something I think any game should do. So instead, errata! Make a cards ability more fair, up their points, etc. Sure it's a pain, but thanks to resources like swdestinydb it's really not even a hassle either(imo).

Now I agree they could do some reprints with corrected text, but not sure FFG knows where to print them since printing them in the next set again would "eat" slots for other cards in the production of a new set and they would extend their life in a rotating format. But this isn't a big deal to me, just remember the errata. There really isn't that much imo.

I realize that errata is necessary.  Maybe I wasn't clear.  I have nothing against errata, but I don't like the way it's carried out without physical replacement cards.  Pretty sure many people like me would even pay $ to obtain replacements.   As an example, LOTR LCG is at a point where it has 14 pages of errata.  Literally for every move we made, we had to double check that the card wasn't errata'd first.   Now, I don't think SW Destiny will reach that point especially as FFG is learning, but many players from my local group, especially casual tournament players, simply don't want to deal with pages (even if just a few) of errata.   Many of my friends have stopped playing SW Destiny altogether specifically because of this.

 

 

Edited by karatechop

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As a newer player who doesn't have any of the expensive cards from the older sets, I'm glad that the older sets will be phased out soon. It'll give me a better chance to be competitive. Right now, I can't make a truly competitive tournament deck in blue because I'm unwilling to spend $160 on two each of Ancient Saber and Force Speed.  By insisting on tournaments that use the older cards, the longer time players are pretty much saying that they don't want anyone new joining the game. I have a problem with that.

Besides, just because the local stores say now that they'll never run infinite tourneys, that doesn't mean they'll stick to that. If a few players in your area request them, they might decide that it's worth varying the format to do infinite once out of every 3-4 tournaments or something, just to cater to you. They are businesses that want to make their customers happy, after all.

As for "pages" of errata, have you looked at the holocron document? It's 2 pages, and the first is a title/credits page. There's literally only one page of errata. After 6 expansions, that's not terrible.

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1 hour ago, Fromper said:

As for "pages" of errata, have you looked at the holocron document? It's 2 pages, and the first is a title/credits page. There's literally only one page of errata. After 6 expansions, that's not terrible.

I don't disagree with you.  I think so far the amount of errata isn't that bad.  However, it's not about what I think; many of fellow Destiny players think it's a problem and don't play because they see where this is going.  Which is why I made the comment:  Now, I don't think SW Destiny will reach that point especially as FFG is learning, but many players from my local group, especially casual tournament players, simply don't want to deal with pages (even if just at few) of errata.

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1 hour ago, karatechop said:

I don't disagree with you.  I think so far the amount of errata isn't that bad.  However, it's not about what I think; many of fellow Destiny players think it's a problem and don't play because they see where this is going.  Which is why I made the comment:  Now, I don't think SW Destiny will reach that point especially as FFG is learning, but many players from my local group, especially casual tournament players, simply don't want to deal with pages (even if just at few) of errata.

Well what do you think they want as an alternative to printing new versions of cards? Cause FFG isn't going to do reprints for reprints sake, most card games don't. Like, Magic the Gathering has a TON of cards that are errata'd and sure they do reprints with updated text every so often, but there are a ton they don't. Mostly they say to reference the Oracle text: their online database of cards. Granted FFG doesn't have anything official like that but the swdestinydb does a pretty good job of fulfilling the same role imo.

But Even if they DID think about reprinting them though, how would you market it from FFG? Destiny's player base isn't big enough that they need to start printing "Masters" sets like MTG so is it just an errata pack? If it is, does it come with the die, cause lots of people would erroneously buy that errata pack even with a warning just like people buy expansions for board games that aren't stand-alone. Promos are already sorta hit or miss, I don't think there is much point in making errata'd promos when once they're errata'd they are usually less desirable. And for people who aren't bugged by the errata they have little incentive to buy/want them. The only way that I can see errata will get printed by FFG is they want to extend the life of the card in Standard, in which case it'll come at random in boosters and at that point you have to open/buy/trade it again.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, looking back at what I wrote I might be being a little negative so I'll try to be more positive and try to make an actual suggestion: Just get an alter of the card. There are a ton of cool alters on the market for Destiny(mostly characters) but they're fairly affordable and some out there should have the updated rules text. I hope that helps you at least.

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Rotation is kind of a necessary evil - as long as the game is sustainable long enough for it to happen. If the game dies in a year or two, rotation is bad. If it doesn't, it'll help the game in the long run, and is just something you've got to accept going in.

In terms of errata, FFG does three mains kinds of errata - fixing rules issues/omissions, balancing of undercosted characters, and soft bans. They should absolutely release cards in the first two categories as decent promo cards, because they'll have some functional use as opposed to most of the garbage promos they tend to release. There's not really much point in releasing promos for soft ban cards, where they've essentially been errated to be unplayable anyway (E.g. It's a Trap).

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2 hours ago, Abyss said:

Rotation is kind of a necessary evil - as long as the game is sustainable long enough for it to happen. If the game dies in a year or two, rotation is bad. If it doesn't, it'll help the game in the long run, and is just something you've got to accept going in.

In terms of errata, FFG does three mains kinds of errata - fixing rules issues/omissions, balancing of undercosted characters, and soft bans. They should absolutely release cards in the first two categories as decent promo cards, because they'll have some functional use as opposed to most of the garbage promos they tend to release. There's not really much point in releasing promos for soft ban cards, where they've essentially been errated to be unplayable anyway (E.g. It's a Trap).

I don't disagree that rotation is necessary.  In fact, I never said anything about not having rotation.  All I suggested is making another format.  "I'm fine with the Infinity, Standard, and Trilogy formats...How about if FFG makes a format where they pick which sets/blocks we can use from all sets released so far?  At least our old cards wouldn't be totally useless."

Not sure how people are reading this as "He's saying rotation is bad."

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5 hours ago, karatechop said:

I don't disagree that rotation is necessary.  In fact, I never said anything about not having rotation.  All I suggested is making another format.  "I'm fine with the Infinity, Standard, and Trilogy formats...How about if FFG makes a format where they pick which sets/blocks we can use from all sets released so far?  At least our old cards wouldn't be totally useless."

Not sure how people are reading this as "He's saying rotation is bad."

A desire to keep playing with the old cards specifically, usually stems from a problem with rotation. Sorry since that's not the case, I know I've talked about that a bunch. That said, what you're suggesting is both harder to do than the existing formats and something I don't think we have enough sets to make interesting right now.

Okay, so say we have a format called "Lucas" and basically this only allows the sets designed by the original designer that basically looks like... pretty recent standard. I mean, that's fine I guess but I don't really see the pull for it personally. If you want to play a Retro format, which lots of games do(yugioh w/ goat and specific years for Pokemon come to mind) but these formats are usually short lived and simply exist to play on nostalgia of the players. I don't even know if I liked the first few sets enough to have that much nostolgia for them. Also these retro formats usually don't get a lot of official support so I think those kind of formats are best promoted by players, so if that's what you want to do more power too you. Just want to do an EaW meta? Go for it! Set it up with your LGS and talk your buddies into it. Post about it online and get people talking about it. Just cause I don't like it doesn't mean that it won't get off the ground. I wish you luck in that.

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Reprints and themed game nights (block constructed/ only using characters from the original three sets or something like that) at your local game store or kitchen table fix most of the problems I’ve read. 

I would like the game move to 40 card decks to force players to use more cards and keep mill in check. Other than that game is great. 

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Yeah, I'm not seeing how adding another tournament format to use the old cards would help with the problem of your local stores only running standard, when you want to play the older cards. It seems like it would just create one more tournament format that your local stores would neglect, to your frustration. The better solution would seem to just be to talk to your local stores about adding infinite once in a while, and/or talk to local players about who would like to play some casual games using all the old cards sometimes.

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On 12/24/2018 at 2:07 PM, Fromper said:

Yeah, I'm not seeing how adding another tournament format to use the old cards would help with the problem of your local stores only running standard, when you want to play the older cards. It seems like it would just create one more tournament format that your local stores would neglect, to your frustration. The better solution would seem to just be to talk to your local stores about adding infinite once in a while, and/or talk to local players about who would like to play some casual games using all the old cards sometimes.

I think the idea is that this tournament format would be something between Infinite and Trilogies.   Anyhow, I checked with the stores again (after a suggestions above from one of commentators above) and they reiterated the fact they will not be supporting Infinite.  Unfortunate, because a lot of people who invested heavily into this game in the beginning are no longer playing.  Anyhow, I'm going to be selling all my Destiny sets.  If interested, PM me.

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16 hours ago, karatechop said:

I think the idea is that this tournament format would be something between Infinite and Trilogies.   Anyhow, I checked with the stores again (after a suggestions above from one of commentators above) and they reiterated the fact they will not be supporting Infinite.  Unfortunate, because a lot of people who invested heavily into this game in the beginning are no longer playing.  Anyhow, I'm going to be selling all my Destiny sets.  If interested, PM me.

Sounds like your store sucks, but if those people who invested early aren't playing I could see why an older format isn't going to float. But hey, best of luck selling selling your stuff.

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Eratta hurts lots of new/relatively new players. specialy when they buy the awakenings starters when convergence is coming out in a few months. FFG could atleast make a printable version of eratta'd rare cards so players won't get confused. they wouldn't even lose money cause we need to pay for the dice anyway.

still sad bout my phasma2 tho

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