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Admiral Theia

Women in the Game, a Poll of Sorts

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8 hours ago, SkyCake said:

*litre of wine in me*

My question is why are their so few?

Can't be that women don't enjoy playing games, because I know a lot that do...

Can't be that women don't have the skills for something like armada, cause I know a lot that do...

Can't be that women don't like star wars cause I know a lot that do.

Likewise, for the reasons most armada players would say they like the game, you don't find any reasons that would be biased based on sex...

Not sure what it is and I don't have any theory behind the reason it's this way. Kind of perplexing when you think about it.
If I had to guess though it would likely be some sort of social programming during gen x and previous that divides the sexes more distinctly so that there is very little overlap. Along those lines then it may be that women are taught to favor status highly(nerds being the bottom off the totem pole the last fifty or so years), and so to be seen with nerds, let alone identify as one is tantamount to social suicide in the female mind.

Or perhaps it's the one on one confrontational nature of armada that females dislike... I work in a casino, amongst slot players I'd say there is an even split amongst the sexes, if anything it's more female. At table games it's perhaps 80/20 in favor of males.. At poker it's like 98-99 percent dudes...remember at poker it's patron vs patron, not patron versus house... That dynamic changes things a lot, the intimidation factor goes way up...typically females are brought to poker by a male..the rarest of birds is the female that shows up on her own volition. One could easily view game stores that way...Lord knows there are a lot of armada owners who are loathe to show up to the store to play because they feel the same sort of intimidation factor, this before sex even gets involved.

Whatever the reason is, I'm not sure that this trend is reversing any time soon. Which sucks cause if this game needs anything it's more players, male and female!

 

 

Well one of the factors is sexism like this. And I dont mean to be super insulting but someone needs to point out that you are really generalizing women.

Edited by ExplosiveTooka

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8 hours ago, SkyCake said:

*litre of wine in me*

My question is why are their so few?

Can't be that women don't enjoy playing games, because I know a lot that do...

Can't be that women don't have the skills for something like armada, cause I know a lot that do...

Can't be that women don't like star wars cause I know a lot that do.

Likewise, for the reasons most armada players would say they like the game, you don't find any reasons that would be biased based on sex...

Not sure what it is and I don't have any theory behind the reason it's this way. Kind of perplexing when you think about it.
If I had to guess though it would likely be some sort of social programming during gen x and previous that divides the sexes more distinctly so that there is very little overlap. Along those lines then it may be that women are taught to favor status highly(nerds being the bottom off the totem pole the last fifty or so years), and so to be seen with nerds, let alone identify as one is tantamount to social suicide in the female mind.

Or perhaps it's the one on one confrontational nature of armada that females dislike... I work in a casino, amongst slot players I'd say there is an even split amongst the sexes, if anything it's more female. At table games it's perhaps 80/20 in favor of males.. At poker it's like 98-99 percent dudes...remember at poker it's patron vs patron, not patron versus house... That dynamic changes things a lot, the intimidation factor goes way up...typically females are brought to poker by a male..the rarest of birds is the female that shows up on her own volition. One could easily view game stores that way...Lord knows there are a lot of armada owners who are loathe to show up to the store to play because they feel the same sort of intimidation factor, this before sex even gets involved.

Whatever the reason is, I'm not sure that this trend is reversing any time soon. Which sucks cause if this game needs anything it's more players, male and female!

 

 

Is it weird that I read that inserting random <hiccup>?

Edited by moodswing5537

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1 hour ago, ExplosiveTooka said:

Well one of the factors is sexism like this. And I dont mean to be super insulting but someone needs to point out that you are really generalizing women.

While there are some generalizations in the post, the main focus is on real life experiences and observations. Call it whatever you like, but my observations are no different from his.

I've gotten my wife to play one game of Armada with me. I kept it simple, 1 large, 1 medium and 1 small ship on each side and a handful of squadrons. Very few upgrades, mostly just ones that give re-rolls. Although I won, it was close and she seemed to be enjoying herself. A few weeks later I asked if she would like to play again, she said she'd rather play Rebellion. She really likes Rebellion, we've got 3 games between the two of us so far. She likes it because she gets to build stuff. I'm not sure how much of that is just her preference, but she does like Scythe, Catan and to a lesser extent Monopoly.

I think if I could get her to play more games of Armada she might like it, but the learning curve can be a little high. Her description was "move this ship here and attack".

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Just now, thestag said:

While there are some generalizations in the post, the main focus is on real life experiences and observations. Call it whatever you like, but my observations are no different from his.

I've gotten my wife to play one game of Armada with me. I kept it simple, 1 large, 1 medium and 1 small ship on each side and a handful of squadrons. Very few upgrades, mostly just ones that give re-rolls. Although I won, it was close and she seemed to be enjoying herself. A few weeks later I asked if she would like to play again, she said she'd rather play Rebellion. She really likes Rebellion, we've got 3 games between the two of us so far. She likes it because she gets to build stuff. I'm not sure how much of that is just her preference, but she does like Scythe, Catan and to a lesser extent Monopoly.

I think if I could get her to play more games of Armada she might like it, but the learning curve can be a little high. Her description was "move this ship here and attack".

 

I wasnt annoyed by his experiences I was annoyed by his conjecture into why his experiences were the way they were.

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I'm the only one i saw here in quebec too... maybe there are other ones but last year, I went to regionals and was the only woman, same for the store championship in montreal and for the quarters I attended. I Play mostly at home with my boyfriend but I surely like tournaments cause I can play against someone else.

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38 minutes ago, PodRacer said:

 

plugtypes_around_the_world.jpg

With the power grids in Europe becoming more and more intertwined it is better if all of Europe used the same plugs, I don't care that brits say "It's got a breaker INSIDE of it" that is what the **** switchboard breaker box inside your house is for! and don't get me started on the swiss, they are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor, take them away.

Edited by Geressen

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21 hours ago, SkyCake said:

*litre of wine in me*

My question is why are their so few?

Can't be that women don't enjoy playing games, because I know a lot that do...

Can't be that women don't have the skills for something like armada, cause I know a lot that do...

Can't be that women don't like star wars cause I know a lot that do.

Likewise, for the reasons most armada players would say they like the game, you don't find any reasons that would be biased based on sex...

Not sure what it is and I don't have any theory behind the reason it's this way. Kind of perplexing when you think about it.
If I had to guess though it would likely be some sort of social programming during gen x and previous that divides the sexes more distinctly so that there is very little overlap. Along those lines then it may be that women are taught to favor status highly(nerds being the bottom off the totem pole the last fifty or so years), and so to be seen with nerds, let alone identify as one is tantamount to social suicide in the female mind.

Or perhaps it's the one on one confrontational nature of armada that females dislike... I work in a casino, amongst slot players I'd say there is an even split amongst the sexes, if anything it's more female. At table games it's perhaps 80/20 in favor of males.. At poker it's like 98-99 percent dudes...remember at poker it's patron vs patron, not patron versus house... That dynamic changes things a lot, the intimidation factor goes way up...typically females are brought to poker by a male..the rarest of birds is the female that shows up on her own volition. One could easily view game stores that way...Lord knows there are a lot of armada owners who are loathe to show up to the store to play because they feel the same sort of intimidation factor, this before sex even gets involved.

Whatever the reason is, I'm not sure that this trend is reversing any time soon. Which sucks cause if this game needs anything it's more players, male and female!

 

 

And after that 'wine-ing' statement (see what i did there?) let the countdown till this thread gets locked down begin....

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It just makes me think, when I try to recruit I always think of male friends but don't consider female ones. Maybe it is because there are not many female Star Wars fans in my age group ( mid-30s).

However when I look at younger generations especially the latest ones, i have lots of friends who have daughters who are really into Star Wars. Perhaps it is more of a generation thing or there are more heroines in source materials to draw them into the media. I think in the future this ratio will be more balanced compared to present day, but I wish it happened today as we need more players overall. 

 

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8 hours ago, LostFleet said:

It just makes me think, when I try to recruit I always think of male friends but don't consider female ones. Maybe it is because there are not many female Star Wars fans in my age group ( mid-30s).

However when I look at younger generations especially the latest ones, i have lots of friends who have daughters who are really into Star Wars. Perhaps it is more of a generation thing or there are more heroines in source materials to draw them into the media. I think in the future this ratio will be more balanced compared to present day, but I wish it happened today as we need more players overall. 

 

Let's be honest ahsoka was the real star for the clone wars and rebels. 

+Hera's superpower of being competent and really resourceful

Also the doctor aphra comics are amazing

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I guess social programming is big part of it. We all are (unintenioally) told, that most tabletop battle games are a male domain, by the customs of our society. Theese kind of things kind of perpetuate themselves once they settle. Luckily that kind of thinking fades away(just look at video games were a lot of progress happened in that regard) at the moment, but that sadly takes time. Also it is true that the human species is subject to sexual dimorphism affecting thought processes among other things. However this affected so many different factors, that these characteristics are more statistical tendencies than anything else. It has still (sadly) affected our society into further cementing social roles.

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On 12/15/2018 at 11:24 AM, thestag said:

 She likes it because she gets to build stuff.

Maybe she'd get into it more if she did list building as well. 

Edited by homedrone

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My girlfriend plays a bit, and hits up the ocassional tournament in the Minneapolis area with me.  Not sure if I'll be able to drag her down to the Chicago Regionals I'm eyeing though...

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Okay, so, I’m going to address a few things without quoting anyone directly.

First off, I have a unique view of the gaming world, I think, as a trans woman.  I’ve been gaming since I was 13.  I transitioned six years ago.  I’ve played just about every type of game and mechanic there is.  Can you guess what the biggest difference between pre and post transition for me?  How men teach me games.  Before, when they thought I was a guy, they would usually just give a simple, quick description of mechanics, or at least ask me what my experience was and go from there.  Now?  Most of the men who teach me new rules break it down Barney style.  I’ve had dudes explain to me what a die is for for frak’s sake.  That NEVER happened before.

In addition, there is of course gatekeeping.  Before when I’d ask to learn a game or have someone teach me something they’d just assume I knew what I wanted to learn and jump in.  Now?  I get a bunch of “Are you sure” type questions, guys who try to explain what type of game it is to me and “make sure” it’s the type of game I like.

Then, of course, there is they typical “guy banter”.  Now, my Armada community here isn’t bad about it, but scarcely does a session at the FLGS go by without me hearing some sexist bulls**t or a r**e joke.

Then there is socialization.  Adam Connover did a great “Ruin” episode wherein he explains why video games (and, subsequently I think, games in general) are seen as “for boys”.  Also, as part of socialization, young women and girls are taught to be socially accommodating, to be social in a non-confrontational way.  Most games, particularly mini games, are oppositional, confrontation built into the bedrock of the genre.

I can’t tell you all the number of times I’ve felt uncomfortable at a tournament or event.  ****, I had a guy quit in the first round of a CC campaign because I called him out on some sexist crap he was saying and “embarrassed him in front of his girlfriend” (Who was just there to watch, which I’ve never understood, same as when I worked in a poker room),  though I think he was more embarrassed by the shellacking I gave him, losing to a woman and all that.

Lastly, the human race is NOT “sexually dimorphous”. our sex is determined by a whole range of factors, all of which exist on a spectrum, and many of which do not agree with each other on which of the two categories we typically put people in (e.g. “XY” chromosomes but androgen averse and thus developing the secondary characteristics typically ascribed to women, to include genitalia).

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My reasoning for thinking a women’s tournament would be a great idea, though it would need to be a high profile one, would be to show women on the periphery of the hobby, the ones who dip their toes in but retreat, or who have partners or family members who play, that we do exist in this space, and that we can play well too, and enjoy ourselves.  To show that there IS space in this community for us (though some of the threads I’ve been a part of on this forum would give anyone pause on that account).  To show that we can and should be taken seriously as gamers, as Star Wars fans, and that there is value in FFG and local stores reaching out to us and creating space for us to be comfortable in.

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16 minutes ago, Admiral Theia said:

Men sometimes don't take my intelligence seriously.

Welcome to womanhood.

 

I've been to a few women's only events in my life, and they've always been a disappointment.  They have felt very patronizing, be it videogames or tabletop games.  The attention they drew was more for the spectacle than the content.

Edited by duck_bird
Phone posting is hard

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30 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Welcome to womanhood.

 

I've been to a few women's only events in my life, and they've always been a disappointment.  They have felt very patronizing, be it videogames or tabletop games.  The attention they drew was more for the spectacle than the content.

I’ve seen similar, but I’ve seen ones done well too.  It’s usually dependent on the intent of the creators and who the ones running it are.

and thanks (though it’s more like “welcome to being recognized as a woman” :-D)

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(posting in fear of a backlash)

With all due respect, unless it has to do with Armada, some of this needs to be either taken to either Off-Topic or another thread.

@Admiral Theia That really sucks that you have experience condescension in how people teach you.   I don't understand why people would do that.  In my Learn to Play demos, I have actually found the women tend to pick up the game (and subsequently get better at it) quicker because they are actually paying attention to my instructions instead of just listening for a couple minutes and saying "Okay, I got this."

Regarding a Women's-only tournament, I really don't think as a community we should start going down a road of excluding anyone from participating in events for our great game.  Definitely support going out there and trying to recruit as many people as possible to get into Armada, male or female, as anything we can do to build or numbers and strengthen our community is a great thing, but don't exclude anyone from gaming events.  That might actually cause a backlash in the area where there was no issue before.  As a real-world example, I had to recruit people just so that we would have more than one person at our Store Championship, which is still the only tournament that has been played in my city since I moved here.  I would be pretty disappointed if another tournament was announced and I was unable to play in it just because I am a male.

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29 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

(posting in fear of a backlash)

With all due respect, unless it has to do with Armada, some of this needs to be either taken to either Off-Topic or another thread.

@Admiral Theia That really sucks that you have experience condescension in how people teach you.   I don't understand why people would do that.  In my Learn to Play demos, I have actually found the women tend to pick up the game (and subsequently get better at it) quicker because they are actually paying attention to my instructions instead of just listening for a couple minutes and saying "Okay, I got this."

Regarding a Women's-only tournament, I really don't think as a community we should start going down a road of excluding anyone from participating in events for our great game.  Definitely support going out there and trying to recruit as many people as possible to get into Armada, male or female, as anything we can do to build or numbers and strengthen our community is a great thing, but don't exclude anyone from gaming events.  That might actually cause a backlash in the area where there was no issue before.  As a real-world example, I had to recruit people just so that we would have more than one person at our Store Championship, which is still the only tournament that has been played in my city since I moved here.  I would be pretty disappointed if another tournament was announced and I was unable to play in it just because I am a male.

I mean some of the worlds top players of chess are women, the just have women only tournaments to encourage women to play. This is just to get women and enbies to play. 

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23 minutes ago, ExplosiveTooka said:

I mean some of the worlds top players of chess are women, the just have women only tournaments to encourage women to play. This is just to get women and enbies to play. 

I see what you are saying, but I don't particularly think that Chess is a good comparison.  First, according to the interwebs, there around 600 million people in the world that play Chess.  I think all of us would love to have that kind of player support in Armada (even with the problems that come with it).  If that were the case, we would not only have women's tournaments, we would also have different age level tournaments for Armada (this may already be a thing, I just haven't seen it).  Second, which coincides with the first, Armada unfortunately does not have the staying power of Chess, meaning that player support needs to be stable or increase for the game to remain financially viable for FFG.  Even though Women's-only tournaments may get additional players into the game, it will certainly turn people off of the game that feel excluded, which is bad for business.  At this stage, I personally don't think the Armada community should do anything that could affect FFG's bottom line and how they view Armada's future.

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If there was a woman only tournament - that would be great! It means that the community would be large enough to support it, everybody would win.

In sort of a parallel to the gaming community, I also climb and have for more than 20 years (more before wife/kids/life) and there would be events or clinics specifically for women. It turns out women would often times rather learn OR GO CLIMBING with other women without guys around, my wife included. Because, let's face it guys, the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons is a harsh but fair stereotype of a not insignificant number of gamers.

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If the point is introducing people to the game, a major demo event might yield better results.  With worlds-grade prize support and competition out of the picture, surely it wouldn’t feel like exclusion?  Nor would it be as limited by the number of female gamers traveling to a major event specifically to play Armada.

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