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Knutto

Need help with my first deck

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This is the deck: https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/de038f08-c6b6-4158-a899-7c32eeb8097a

I am new to the game, but already kinda disappointed and a bit frustrated.

I tried many games on the crucible and won only 2. I archived as many Logos cards as possible with Novu Archaeologist and Zyzzix The Many and I was lucky enough to combo Library Access with Nepenthe Seed in order to close the game with Key Abduction one turn later. Normally, by the time I have the combo, the opponent is already at their second key.

And I can't do much because Aember generation and especially Aember control is pretty much non-existent.

Do you guys have any tip son how to efficiently play it? I can't see any other real win condition.

Thanks in advance.

 

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I agree you have some neat cards, but, the deck lacks synergy or any real direction.

It's a little light on creatures, and the creatures you do have aren't the ones that are considered to be the big board threats.

Tunk is one of my favorite Mars creatures, but sadly you don't have a lot of other Mars creatures to really get him going.

The little bit of discard recycling with Untamed and the draw of Logos are nice but the rest of the deck needs to really be solid.  That can be the downside of having a deck with a lot of good support cards but no serious threats.

Just try to set up as many turns as you can were you play out your hand and keep gong through your deck to try and hit your better cards more often.  Cross fingers and hope for the best?

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I think the main problem I'm noticing is a lack of Æmber generation (see attached screenshot below). Even amongst all the cards that gain, steal, etc. Æmber, it seems like it'd be a struggle. If you can't generate Æmber, you can't win a game.

This is further confirmed by looking at the ABCE scores here: https://keyforge-compendium.com/decks/de038f08-c6b6-4158-a899-7c32eeb8097a/

The two main scores to note are:

  • Aember: 12.0 (-5.57)
  • Aember Control: 1.67 (-3.84)

The negative numbers in parentheses are there to show how your deck compares to the average of all registered decks (i.e. very below average).

However, the ADHD scores aren't there to indicate if a deck is bad or good, but to show how a deck might be played. So, it seems that to win a game, you might have to do something out-of-the-box or unique to your deck's composition. In your case, it might be a matter of cycling through your deck faster -- and that's something Logos excels at.

You've already mentioned Library Access + Nepenthe Seed. I think that'll be foundational for success here. Without it, you might not be able to cycle through cards fast enough to get enough Aember. Your other option (or what you can do while waiting for the combo) is to do your best to milk the card draw out of your 2x Doc Bookton, Quixo, and Library of Babble -- these will also help you cycle through your deck faster.

 

2018-12-14_12-33-50.jpeg

edit: grammar

Edited by TheRealGadianton

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4 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I agree you have some neat cards, but, the deck lacks synergy or any real direction.

It's a little light on creatures, and the creatures you do have aren't the ones that are considered to be the big board threats.

Tunk is one of my favorite Mars creatures, but sadly you don't have a lot of other Mars creatures to really get him going.

The little bit of discard recycling with Untamed and the draw of Logos are nice but the rest of the deck needs to really be solid.  That can be the downside of having a deck with a lot of good support cards but no serious threats.

Just try to set up as many turns as you can were you play out your hand and keep gong through your deck to try and hit your better cards more often.  Cross fingers and hope for the best?

 

4 hours ago, TheRealGadianton said:

I think the main problem I'm noticing is a lack of Æmber generation (see attached screenshot below). Even amongst all the cards that gain, steal, etc. Æmber, it seems like it'd be a struggle. If you can't generate Æmber, you can't win a game.

This is further confirmed by looking at the ABCE scores here: https://keyforge-compendium.com/decks/de038f08-c6b6-4158-a899-7c32eeb8097a/

The two main scores to note are:

  • Aember: 12.0 (-5.57)
  • Aember Control: 1.67 (-3.84)

The negative numbers in parentheses are there to show how your deck compares to the average of all registered decks (i.e. very below average).

However, the ADHD scores aren't there to indicate if a deck is bad or good, but to show how a deck might be played. So, it seems that to win a game, you might have to do something out-of-the-box or unique to your deck's composition. In your case, it might be a matter of cycling through your deck faster -- and that's something Logos excels at.

You've already mentioned Library Access + Nepenthe Seed. I think that'll be foundational for success here. Without it, you might not be able to cycle through cards fast enough to get enough Aember. Your other option (or what you can do while waiting for the combo) is to do your best to milk the card draw out of your 2x Doc Bookton, Quixo, and Library of Babble -- these will also help you cycle through your deck faster.

 

2018-12-14_12-33-50.jpeg

edit: grammar

Thanks a lot TheRealGadianton and Ishi Tonu for your in-depth feedback and for the time you took to write it.

I will try to get better at piloting this deck and maybe report back here my results. 

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I’ve been thinking about this off and on all day. I’m going to come back to this post and give some thoughts because I see a lot of potential. Your board control is the key.

More as I figure out what it is I’m seeing, thanks for your patience!

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5 hours ago, TheSpitfired said:

I’ve been thinking about this off and on all day. I’m going to come back to this post and give some thoughts because I see a lot of potential. Your board control is the key.

More as I figure out what it is I’m seeing, thanks for your patience!

I am really looking forward to your update! :)

I'm not in a hurry, take all the time you want!

And thanks so much in advance!

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Some people has a lot of decks and only take their strongest deck to the crucible. You deck is average or even a little below average, so you have to play very well and be a little lucky to beat someone with a stronger deck.

One thing you could do is to find someone in the Lobby chat that have a average deck and didn't just bring their killer deck and set up a match with them.

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TheRealGadianton you write that "ADHD scores aren't there to indicate if a deck is bad or good". I have to disagree a little - ADHD scores are a indicate of how good or bad a deck is but only a indicator - They don't tell the whole truth about how good a deck is and the definitely tell nothing about how fun a deck is to play. That being said my best deck is also the one with the highest ADHD score and my worse deck is one with the lowest ADHD score. 

 

Edited by Zalco

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23 minutes ago, Zalco said:

TheRealGadianton you write that "ADHD scores aren't there to indicate if a deck is bad or good". I have to disagree a little - ADHD scores are a indicate of how good or bad a deck is but only a indicator - They don't tell the whole truth about how good a deck is and the definitely tell nothing about how fun a deck is to play. That being said my best deck is also the one with the highest ADHD score and my worse deck is with the lowest ADHD score.- 

 

I'm really glad you've had success using the metrics that way. The only caution is that the heuristics system doesn't account for either combos/synergies or for situations where you're able use milk a lot of value out of cards (e.g. returning powerful cards back to hand and reusing them or keeping a powerful creature on the board for a long time).

In the creator's own words:

Quote

Mostly, it does not tell you if your deck is good or not. It can suggest quality, but the individual synergies between cards and a number of other factors matter. In addition the system rates Play effects much higher than activated effects, but activated effects have much higher potential to swing games. How your deck performs will come down to how much value you can ring out of activated effects beyond to the values the system projects.

Instead the system should be looked at as a Playstyle guide. A deck with a High A score is good at generating Amber. If that's all it has it is going to want to play hard and fast, cycling through cards as quickly as possible in hopes of getting 3 keys before the opponent can take control of the board and run away with the game through reaping. A deck with a High B score wants to set up a board, lock the opponent off the board, and reap their way to victory. A deck with a High C score wants to do similar things, but is more focused on stalling the opponents Amber supply long enough to generate 3 keys. A deck with a High E score wants to have big turns where they can make use of their other values more than the opponent. A deck that cycles through itself faster will get more value out of play effects and can recur their creatures more, raising their other scores by a variable percentage I don't know how to generate. A deck with a lot of board efficiency can get more out of what is on the table, raising the value of activated abilities and raw creature stats. A deck with a lot of Hate Efficiency will control the game state more effectively, augmenting their B and C scores.

In any case, keep up the good work and I hope you continue to find success.

Edited by TheRealGadianton
too many adjectives :)

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Maybe you are right, but one thing I'm sure of is that it's a lot easier to play a deck with "good" scores well. It can very well be that I havn't played my other decks in the most optimal way. I have 6 decks, I will keep exploring them all 🙂

Edited by Zalco

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12 hours ago, Zalco said:

Some people has a lot of decks and only take their strongest deck to the crucible. You deck is average or even a little below average, so you have to play very well and be a little lucky to beat someone with a stronger deck.

One thing you could do is to find someone in the Lobby chat that have a average deck and didn't just bring their killer deck and set up a match with them.

 

11 hours ago, Zalco said:

TheRealGadianton you write that "ADHD scores aren't there to indicate if a deck is bad or good". I have to disagree a little - ADHD scores are a indicate of how good or bad a deck is but only a indicator - They don't tell the whole truth about how good a deck is and the definitely tell nothing about how fun a deck is to play. That being said my best deck is also the one with the highest ADHD score and my worse deck is one with the lowest ADHD score. 

 

The more I play my deck, the more I realize that I'm getting better at it and why I'm getting better. 

 

There is this sentence that is resonating a lot inside my head: "Don't try to change the Crucible to fit your needs. Let it change you.". This is exactly what's happening with me right now.

 

I think that ADHD is a good way to have a general understanding of what a deck is capable of. On the other hand, my list has one-combo-win condition which is not taken in consideration at all by the ADHD, which holds the score down and doesn't let you see through its real potential.

 

This is a summary of my progress with this deck:

  • I was using creatures to fight too often > now I use them mostly to reap, sometimes to use their action and fight only when I get a real advantage (like batdrone or Quixo).
  • I wasn't archiving logos cards > now I try to archive them as much as possible with Labwork, Novu Archaeologist and Zyzzix the Many (if left unchecked can really get out of hand) to have an insane combo.
  • I waited the right time  to use cards for tempo > now, instead, I play  them to cycle the deck as much as I can and get to the  combo faster (except of course for Library Access and Key Abduction) or even discard some of them for more draws.

 

The games I'm losing right now are the ones where my combo cards are litterally in the bottom 10 of the deck or when I'm against some crazy deck with insane/good aember generation and/or control.

 

My deck is far from begin "good" and I'm still losing a lot, but at least now I know why. It has never been so satisfactory to win a card game than with this deck and in Keyforge in general.

 

I'm so excited that I've signed up for a tournament on my FLGS and really looking forward to it :).

 

Edit: grammar.

Edited by Knutto

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Looks like you’re learning some solid stuff.

Here is what keeps sticking out to me and I apologize for taking so long.

When I look at your deck I keep looking at that double phosphorus stars, cooperative hunting, save the pack, deep probe, custom virus, sample collection, bouncing deathquark. All kinds of ways to make sure your opponent’s creatures are stunned or wiped with the right timing. Especially keying in with your skirmish creatures in Untamed, Mindwarper and Quixo like you said. 

You beat me to it with the key abduction strategy, especially if it sets you up for a huge logos turn right after. You can utilize nepenthe seed with it for some truly crazy shenanigans, but I think that might not always be the card you want to return in the heat of he moment. Same with the witch.

I would not classify your deck as average or bad, I would title it as what I call a “finesse” deck. Finesse decks have a strategy that is hard to figure out and can be hard to pull off with regular success, but it is still a lot of fun to play and as you alluded very fun when you win with it.

At first I thought my lowest ranked “ADHD” deck was terrible and I couldn’t figure it out. Then something clicked and it’s on a 2-3 game streak and has become one of my favorites to play. In my mind this further proves my biased disposition against the ADHD system but that’s a different story.

Anyways I hope you find some of this beneficial. Happy forging!

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