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SkyCake

contested outpost losses

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this isn't a "make CO great again" thread, or "I wish CO was this" thread. this is a "I pretty much get nothing from this objective as second" thread or a "how the heck do you play this as second" thread

 

my plan is usually dump some ships on it and hold hold hold

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but how it usually ends up getting played is screw this im outta here!

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because speed is life I find, and standing still feels like death to me.

 

is there a good way to deploy, play this objective??? I want it to be good and im thinking there is probably something im missing....

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Contested Outpost is a pretty weak objective for second player.

Your deployment and movement is telegraphed, worse than sp or sc.

And you can't even heal on the station.

When I see it as first player I assume a 20-40 point deficit, but factor in a substantial tactical advantage.

Grav shift + grav well makes it more useful, as you get more points and can set up a better position.

Edited by Green Knight

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Last time I played this was with Tagge MSU. I agressuvely charge the enemy with everything except my raider flag which dances on the station. I like it as it helps encourage my opponent to fly max speed. 

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I have always liked this objective. My general strategy is to have it in a corner if possible, and have my ISD or MC80 get to it turn 1 at speed two, then drop down to speed 1 for the remaining few turns I am in range. Meanwhile, the rest of my fleet (normally gladiators/mc30s) is spread out into the field and attempts to loop around the enemy as they make for the station. One small ship is located on the outer edge side of the ISD, to follow up on points collection and to prevent devastating flanks. What tends to happen is either the enemy goes full speed for the station to prevent me from grabbing 120 points, and my fleet flanks them, or they turn toward the bulk of my fleet (but still edging toward the station) and the ISD flanks them. I tend to get 40-120 points from the objective, depending on which way they turn and (obviously) the relative skill of my opponent to me.
An alternative to the above is with VSD bomber fleets, where the station is in the center, the VSDs castle around it in triangular formation, and the bombers hang out in front of it. Approaching enemy ships either go through the bomber cloud or around into the guns of the VSDs. This variant is a bit less successful than the above approach, largely due to the fact that VSDs are not agile enough to turn around when they get flanked or pass the station, and so I generally lose one or two ships and turns at the station.

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3 hours ago, Green Knight said:

If you get the station in the corner opponent is doing it wrong.

If you get more than net 40 points opponent is doing it wrong.

@Ginkapo hit the nail on the head - don't camp the station with more than you need. Keep moving, stay flexible.

This is because you don’t like VSDs :) 

Too many folks put this objective in a list that cannot hold a position. 

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13 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

This is because you don’t like VSDs :) 

Too many folks put this objective in a list that cannot hold a position. 

If you do it right, even Konstantine can dig out a VSD/bomber swarm  from the Outpost.

Try again :)

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One way I have had some success is with an ISD and 2 Arquitens.  The ISD camps in range of the station, usually with a Flotilla trailing to pick up a round or two if the ISD needs to turn or get out.  The Arquitens flank on either side at long range.  The hope is to funnel the opponents fleet with the strongest arcs of each ship trained on the inside of the funnel.  This takes up a wide amount of space and if my opponent tries to outflank me the more station points I can gain.

With JJ or other manuver help I can shift to take on my opponents approach.

Dual Interdictors with lots of health regen is also an approach I have used but usually with that fleet my opponent selects a different objective.

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1 hour ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

You've made up your mind, nothing to try.

I've probably played that objective like 100 times.

It seems strong in the early days, but with every game I play I consider CO to be weaker.

So yes, I think I've made up my mind :P

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I think @Snipafistis correct in his assessment of Contested Outpost.  

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/03/armada-objectives-yellow-objectives.html

"What kind of fleets should consider using Contested Outpost?
Slower defensive-minded fleets..."

I'd still argue that very few are using and perfecting slow and defensive fleets (probably for good reason.)  So yes, CO isn't great, which is probably because of your fleet, but if it was great for your fleet, your fleet probably isn't great.

Edited by CaribbeanNinja

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2 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

I think @Snipafistis correct in his assessment of Contested Outpost.  

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/03/armada-objectives-yellow-objectives.html

"What kind of fleets should consider using Contested Outpost?
Slower defensive-minded fleets..."

I'd still argue that very few are using and perfecting slow and defensive fleets (probably for good reason.)  So yes, CO isn't great, which is probably becasue of your fleet, but if it was great for your fleet, your fleet probably isn't great.

Hey man, SOMEONE'S gotta be using Redemption and MCEF stuff somewhere?

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I use this fairly frequently, and I use it with my 'speedy gsd's will wreck your day' fleet. Only reason I take it is to funnel the enemy in a particular direction. I don't care if I score any points. If it makes the enemy fly the direction I want him to go, it's done its job. After that, it's up to me to feed the enemy ALL the torpedoes...lol. 

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1 hour ago, Darth Lupine said:

Only reason I take it is to funnel the enemy in a particular direction.

This.

Essentially Contested outpost is good for high activation low squadron fleets, as these can allow to send only one ship to the outpost (and stack ships arrivals and departures) to hold outpost for the game unless contested.

The advantages on contested outpost are:

1. Your opponent only places two obstacles and often you know where these would be, so you control obstacle deployment.

2. By placing the station you control opponents fleet location (or they just give you 100-120 points)

3. Station does not heal and does not obstruct, i.e. enemy squadrons can't heal flak damage and can't hide on a station.

4. If you defeated the bulk of the opponent's fleet but didn't table him (let's say there is a lifeboat) station would provide a points boost in last 2-3 rounds.

In a recent tournament and my regional I ended up playing contested outpost pretty often and the objective did work for me (either by providing 80-100 points boost, or by splitting the tokens 3-3 but allowing me to outflank and destroy opponent's fleet).

 

 

 

Edited by PT106

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I never camp around the station. I...

a) play a slow roll fleet so I just place the station through my flying trajectory. I do this with Triple Cymoon for example as big bases allow me to get more from the station even "ignoring" it.

b) take a cheap guardian (flotilla or raider) while the rest of the fleet (one which is more built to hunt) do its job.

But take and hold? Nope.

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I like Contested Outpost, it is not very point lucritive, but it forces my opponent to come to me and engage on my terms, the points I do get from that are just a bouns. I love parking a kuat on the station and just say bring your pretty ship into my black dice range.  It's a great objective choice for black dice lists, especially one with high activations, as your opponent ether flys into black dice range to contest the outpost or let's you get 120 points, you could argue you could do the same with fire lanes, but they don't have to come into close range to contest that, also if you take fire lanes you probably want some strategic in your list. Contested Outpost is just a set it and forget it objective, you might get a few extra points, but it brings your opponents ships to you, allowing you to dictate terms of engagement.

Edited by xero989

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I have extremely mixed feelings about running CO with a squad-heavier fleet. It can help bringing targets into range of your bombers, but turning the station into a scoring zone that no longer obstructs or heals squads can suck a lot for you and so it's usually a worse choice than it appears to be.

It also seems taken a lot by default by fleets that are iffy about it. If you're a slower defensive fleet, it's fine. If you've got a gunline element (I think it works fine with Hammerhead Scouts, for example), it's fine. Ideally you want a fleet that doesn't mind babysitting the scoring zone a bit and likes the fact that the station has been turned into a no-obstruct scoring zone, so usually low/no-squad builds with longer-ranged elements that don't mind going a bit slower if necessary. In most games, I rarely see CO giving more than 40 points to the second player and in some cases it evens out entirely when the babysitting flotilla gets wiped and then the first player can sit around on the station with a ship that was otherwise going to run away anyways. If you were planning on having a flotilla largely do nothing while sitting on the station, you really should've included Capture the VIP instead.

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