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Those with the new kits - did FFG screw us over again?

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think I asked you before but I don't remember:

Why do you want/need to convert all of your ships as long as there is no Epics ruleset? Is it not enough to get 1 CK for whatever you want to play in 2.0 if you want to join events, and stick to 1.0 for epic?

In truth, I no longer want/need to convert anything from Empire, Rebels or Scum.  I would need 2 of any given faction CK to do what I want to do.  Ergo, terrible value.  I'd far rather put that 100 bucks towards new material.

OTOH, the FO and Resistance CKs do hit the sweet spot for me.  The kits are only $25, and I only need one.  Probably, in part, because I started to get saavy about the idea that aces packs were going to be reissuing ships to fix them, so I was being more conservative already in my purchasing patterns.

The Resistance is particularly appealing right now, since I can convert AND immediately add the new A-Wing to my lists.

Also, in general, I've been the Imperials.  I'm thinking I'd like to talk my brother into being FO, and I'm Resistance to mix up the dynamic.

Then of course, there's the non-option Republic and CiS.  I'm all in at 2.0 there.

So I'm basically a split-decision for FFG.  They lost almost all of my conversion money, and almost lost a player until the Prequels were announced.  I can see some theoretical improvements in the game (theoretical because I personally have yet to play a game of 2.0}, but I'm sad the app sucks and Epic is nowhere to be seen.  And the latter 2 items also make me not want to invest in conversion kits, because I'm still worried about FFG's lack of focus on anything non-Standard.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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9 hours ago, player3010587 said:

Well, on the bright side, this ******* will end over these last 2 factions converted. Now on to clone wars, where people will bizarrely be upset about the lack of kits!

you mean to convert the Z95s and ARCs many people have in their collection?  

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4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

So I'm basically a split-decision for FFG.  They lost almost all of my conversion money, and almost lost a player until the Prequels were announced.  I can see some theoretical improvements in the game (theoretical because I personally have yet to play a game of 2.0}, but I'm sad the app sucks and Epic is nowhere to be seen.  And the latter 2 items also make me not want to invest in conversion kits, because I'm still worried about FFG's lack of focus on anything non-Standard.

I’m still worried about that too. I honestly don’t expect there to be anything but standard (extended + Hyperspace) for at least the next few years.

I lucked out - the conversion kits were about perfect for me in terms of contents vs collection. I still enjoy standard, so it’s not as big a deal to me that my huge ships have to wait.

OTOH, I’m really frustrated about how most events are going towards Hyperspace where most of my collection isn’t playable. So that puts me back at the fringes again right with you.

I am kind of glad that the rereleases have shown us that they’re planning on just putting conversion contents into single packs. Between the FO conversion kit news (a card saying “this stuff is from the Silencer, the FO, and the upsilon packs”) and the wave 3 rereleases having nothing new, means I don’t need to invest too much into 2.0 If I don’t want to.

I’m on the fence about a prequel faction or not. 4 factions is a lot.... I’m not sure how I’d go up to 5.  

Edited by ScummyRebel

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On 12/14/2018 at 3:52 PM, Matanui3 said:

Wait, how exactly do the contents of kits make trading harder than you thought?  Did people think every kit would have the same number of every ship or something?

In an example I used to show an inadequacy of the squad builder look to the ARC-170 in the conversion kit. You get two dials and two ship tokens in the conversion. You can not field any combination of two pilots with the two ship tokens. You can have Norra or Garven, Shara or Ibtisam. If you only have 1 ARC you will have an extra dial but can not spare any pilot cards or tokens unless you wish to fly only one pair of pilots. 

In addition the kit has only four medium bases with dials for six ships moving to the medium base in 2nd. If your total of K-wings, original release U-wings, and ARCs add up to more than four you likely won't care to part with a medium base depending on how you field squads. 

You can see a similar situation if you look at the components in the conversion kit for K-wings. If you have a single K-wing you'll have an extra dial but not really any ship tokens for trade. 

So you have to find somebody who doesn't have ANY of what you'd like to trade for interested in something you don't have any of or who only wants an extra maneuver dial. 

I overall found the conversion kits pretty much designed nearly exactly for my collection. I found someone on eBay to sell me all the bits for a couple of ships that were outside the parameters of the kit. Even at that though I have a small bag full of dials in excess of what I own but no components to trade. 

Edited by Frimmel
additional text

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barrage rockets, proton torps in limited supply but if u want them u will buy the appropriate conversion kit.

have FFG fronted with any explanation for the low number of shield tokens?

1.0 players are finding unique solutions such as putting a red sticker on the back of their old shields :) works fine but should not hav been forced to do it in first place imo.

now iv actually bought a conversion kit (scum) i think theyre reasonable value with all the stuff u get in there. enough to mix and match what u like playing more or less (just missing moldy crow, han gunner and L3-37 from other expansions so bough Lando's Falcon and sharing the cost of a rebel kit so i can get my copy of MC) 

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2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Define "most" here, please..?

I fail to understand how that is not clear. Most, as in greater than 50%, of my ships are not legal for Hyperspace.  And most, as in the events around here want to practice for actual Hyperspace events or are Hyperspace events.

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On 12/14/2018 at 10:00 PM, ScummyRebel said:

OTOH, I’m really frustrated about how most events are going towards Hyperspace where most of my collection isn’t playable.

I mean that's also true in extended, you are just permitted the delusion that such is not that case there.

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7 minutes ago, miguelj said:

I mean that's also true in extended, you are just permitted the delusion that such is not that case there.

I said be able to play with the collection. I didn’t say “top winning squad”. Yes, I can play with my other ships in extended. That option simply doesn’t exist in Hyperspace 

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Did the screw me?  Naw.

Are there a few minor annoyances?  Sure.

There are only 2x of each Tech upgrade, which is a little annoying given that this is the only source for them.  Couldn't have gone three copies?

TIE/SF have 5 Ship Tiles for the Omega Expert, but only 4 ship cards.  Non-Gunner 5-ship Omega Expert lists are legal.  TIE/FO has 7x Tiles and 7x Cards for Zeta Squadron Pilots, but you can only run 6 Zetas in a legal list.  Couldn't have made one of those Zeta FOs into an Omega SF?

However, the "converts three" for the Upsilon is actually converts three.  There are three generic Starkiller Base Pilots, and plenty of ship tiles to make it work.

I haven't cracked a Resistance kit yet, but the First Order seemed cleaner and with fewer awkward things than the Rebel/Empire/Scum kits.

*edit* Resistance has almost everything I could hope for.  Enough of each generic, other than the single Black Squadron Ace.  Again, I'd have been happier with more copies of the Tech upgrades, but it's fine.

Edited by theBitterFig

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1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Did the screw me?  Naw.

Are there a few minor annoyances?  Sure.

There are only 2x of each Tech upgrade, which is a little annoying given that this is the only source for them.  Couldn't have gone three copies?

TIE/SF have 5 Ship Tiles for the Omega Expert, but only 4 ship cards.  Non-Gunner 5-ship Omega Expert lists are legal.  TIE/FO has 7x Tiles and 7x Cards for Zeta Squadron Pilots, but you can only run 6 Zetas in a legal list.  Couldn't have made one of those Zeta FOs into an Omega SF?

However, the "converts three" for the Upsilon is actually converts three.  There are three generic Starkiller Base Pilots, and plenty of ship tiles to make it work.

I haven't cracked a Resistance kit yet, but the First Order seemed cleaner and with fewer awkward things than the Rebel/Empire/Scum kits.

the first 3 kits scum/rebel/imperial seem like they were rushed. evidence of this is the addition of extra cards that are seperate from the main groupings. this was the case in the scum kit with marauder and 2x firespray name pilots being separate.

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6 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I fail to understand how that is not clear. Most, as in greater than 50%, of my ships are not legal for Hyperspace.  And most, as in the events around here want to practice for actual Hyperspace events or are Hyperspace events.

Sounds like that's more the players near you, not FFG's fault.  Neither LGS in my town has any sort of sanctioned event, despite being in FFG's backyard.  That's not FFG's fault, it's because people can't make it to events at a standard time.

26 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

the first 3 kits scum/rebel/imperial seem like they were rushed. evidence of this is the addition of extra cards that are seperate from the main groupings. this was the case in the scum kit with marauder and 2x firespray name pilots being separate.

This was to show you what was unique to the wave 1 boxes, I thought.  Did they not do this with the wave 2 kits?  No wonder people are confused about only getting one of the new generic (besides the fact that FFG thought it was a good idea to launch a new generic and not put it in the kits...)

Edited by Matanui3

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11 hours ago, Matanui3 said:

Sounds like that's more the players near you, not FFG's fault. 

It is FFG's fault.

FFG is in charge of creating the milieu in which the game can be played, especially in a public venue like a FLGS.

No one wants to play anything but Standard +/- Hyperspace, because FFG doesn't care about anything else.  As an Epic player I would be hard pressed to find like minded players, AND THAT IS FFG'S FAULT FOR FAILING TO SUPPORT EPIC.  Especially now, since they have basically killed that version of the game until whenever.

Other players struggle to find players willing to explore narrative play, missions, or scenarios because FFG does not cultivate that aspect of the game.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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19 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I fail to understand how that is not clear. Most, as in greater than 50%, of my ships are not legal for Hyperspace.  And most, as in the events around here want to practice for actual Hyperspace events or are Hyperspace events.

Most events.  Define most events.

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2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

It is FFG's fault.

FFG is in charge of creating the milieu in which the game can be played, especially in a public venue like a FLGS.

No one wants to play anything but Standard +/- Hyperspace, because FFG doesn't care about anything else.  As an Epic player I would be hard pressed to find like minded players, AND THAT IS FFG'S FAULT FOR FAILING TO SUPPORT EPIC.  Especially now, since they have basically killed that version of the game until whenever.

Other players struggle to find players willing to explore narrative play, missions, or scenarios because FFG does not cultivate that aspect of the game.

This. I used to say “oh it’s ok because epic takes a lot longer so I don’t play it as often”, but now it’s coming home to roost in another way. My local community FB page is all about the Hyperspace (“see? Run away from the gross broken combos and play Hyperspace only?”) but that means I’m not really getting my use out of my conversion kits.... 

Contrast this with Legion, the other ffg miniatures game I play. Ffg has put out campaigns for the game. You can play “standard” games or you can play campaign based linked games.... guess what? Where I play legion, I can play both because we mix it up. It’s awesome. On top of the fact that terrain makes a much bigger difference in Legion than obstacles do in xwing, we can have two totally different game’s even with the same list just by altering terrain, altering the format, or both.

what ffg is doing for Legion is awesome. I hoped xwing 2.0 picked up on some of the learned lessons. I see that was not true - it’s the same as 1.0, with a major across the board nerfing, new mechanics and a easy-to-nerf button in the form of adjustable points. All good things, but not a different game and certainly not a better mindset for getting the game played outside of a limited specific way.

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16 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

It is FFG's fault.

FFG is in charge of creating the milieu in which the game can be played, especially in a public venue like a FLGS.

No one wants to play anything but Standard +/- Hyperspace, because FFG doesn't care about anything else.  As an Epic player I would be hard pressed to find like minded players, AND THAT IS FFG'S FAULT FOR FAILING TO SUPPORT EPIC.  Especially now, since they have basically killed that version of the game until whenever.

Other players struggle to find players willing to explore narrative play, missions, or scenarios because FFG does not cultivate that aspect of the game.

I'd love to see more missions, scenarios, narrative content, cooperative campaigns and the like for X-Wing (I'm really looking forward to HotAC for 2nd edition), and I'd just throw money at FFG for something like the Corellian Conflict box for Armada.  However, I'm not sure that support for different modes of play by a company actually leads to those modes getting played particularly frequently.

Warhammer 40,000 is a prime example of this.  8th Edition has brought in three different modes of play - Open, Narrative, and Matched Play - and supports all three in their yearly Chapter Approved releases, alongside other supplements (the Vigilus Defiant campaign book that's just come out being a prime example).  However, at least at my two FLGS, very few people play anything other than tournament-style matched play games despite the range of options being there and reasonably well supported.  Player group culture/preferences can make a world of difference.

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15 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

what ffg is doing for Legion is awesome. I hoped xwing 2.0 picked up on some of the learned lessons. I see that was not true

Wait. In both cases FFG put out two modes. For one game, your local community mixes them up. For the other game, they don't. What is the difference on FFG's part?

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33 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Wait. In both cases FFG put out two modes. For one game, your local community mixes them up. For the other game, they don't. What is the difference on FFG's part?

The support from ffg as two which ones are valid enough for use?

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On 12/14/2018 at 12:51 PM, Jeff Wilder said:

But FFG made decisions to make that impossible.  They made that decision in the interests of forcing the sale of more CKs, and I understand that's one of the ways capitalism works.

What is the basis for this statement?  There are numerous factors that go into deciding the amount of content in each kit, such as manufacturing costs and shipping costs, both of which can affect the final price, which in turn helps decide how many people will actually buy the kit (which itself might affect quantity, which could affect manufacturing costs).  To say that the decision was made purely to short players and force them to buy multiple kits seems unsupportable, especially when many, many more casual players can easily make do with a single kit.  The player group of X-Wing is diverse enough that someone is going to be dissatisfied regardless of what choice they make.  It's disappointing when you end up being in the player group excluded, but you don't need to view it as a personal attack against you.

On 12/14/2018 at 2:10 PM, FTS Gecko said:

Personally speaking, I picked up one of each conversion kit at launch, a copy and f the new core set (with a free damage deck as well), and I've got more content than I'll ever need when it comes to playing a game of X-Wing with my first edition collection, be it 200 point standard or 400 point Epic (fielding both sides, natch).

So kudos to FFG.  There's plenty of other game companies I know who's force you to shell out MUCH more in order to reuse your existing models.  Or simply try to make you to buy new ones.

Oh, absolutely!  To fly with my Lambda + Gunboat list, I'd need to first wait for them to be re-released, then shell out $40 for the shuttle and $20 for each Gunboat.  With two Gunboats, that's $80 for a single list, and my 1.0 models just sit around useless.  With the conversion kit, I don't get the 2.0 models, but I do get to spend only $50 for that and many other lists, assuming I have the 1.0 models (which, again, would just be sitting around useless without the conversion kits).

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If local tournaments are Hyperspace only, that's because local players and/or tournament organizers want Hyperspace. Here, people prefer Extended, so every event since launch has been Extended (although we'll give HS a go in January, now that the PDFs as well as FO and Res are out).

If YOU want Extended, talk to you LFGS or find some other venue, and organize the event yourself! Take some responsibility and be the change you want to see, instead of just complaining about FFG introducing a format you don't enjoy as much.

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