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Those with the new kits - did FFG screw us over again?

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9 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

(1) No, I don't.  I have no interest in dials alone.  Nor do most (all?) players.  That's the point.  Dials without ship-tokens and (to a lesser extent) pilot cards are verging on useless.  That's why using "conversions (by dial count)" was dishonest and misleading.

Sorry, misquote on my part. You do trade for things you need, I've seen them on the trade thread. Dial alone, no. I concede your correction.

 

9 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

(2) I'm desperately trying to trade away the extra Imperial CK stuff I have to get missing Rebel and Scum stuff, but -- because of how FFG did CKs -- it is extremely difficult.  So far, I've managed two trades, and have another one in the works.  If it weren't for the good trading relationship I've developed with a player in Japan, I would barely have a single trade thus far.  Because of the way FFG did CKs.

I have a lot of the scum stuff you need, actually. I don't have many ships, but have half a kit I'm sitting on. I mainly looking for Rebel as well though, to which you also need. I've been considering your other oddities as options, but are likely unworthy the international shipping.

EDIT: Yes, that seems silly I'm saying unworthy trading when you're going to Japan, but as you said, you've got a pretty solid relationship going there. Anyway - this is sliding perhaps a bit off topic? Maybe? I dunno. I'm not the only person in the world sitting on stuff they don't need though. It's not IMPOSSIBLE to make a trade, but absolutely it is difficult - to that I've never said otherwise, and even admitted in my original post where I mentioned you.

Edited by LagJanson

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29 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, I have none of that experience to fall back on, so I'll take your word on it.

BTW, Epic was a play mode intended by the manufacturer.

The conkits are shite for Epic players.  So, some of the ill will does come from the fact that 2.0 has been a colossal "screw you, we need to fix standard" to the player base that spent money to buy the biggest ships for actual play, and multiples of the little ones.

There has been no conversion to epic... so no all of your points are meaningless you can keep playing epic like nothing changed.

 

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4 minutes ago, Icelom said:

There has been no conversion to epic... so no all of your points are meaningless you can keep playing epic like nothing changed.

Semi-kinda his point, really. Playing only epic (or mainly even) means that value of a kit is rather sad.

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25 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Not... necessarily true. They aren't the best if you want to fly all of the same ship in an epic game, mind you. They do provide a LOT of faction appropriate fighters and transports for an epic game though, minus the cruisers themselves - which, even you must agree need a bit more rework than most of the individual fighters included in the kits.

I'm willing to give FFG some time to go back and fix things. I think it'll take longer than I want, admittedly, but I'd like to see them as more than something I need to pre-balance before a mission just to get things thematically appropriate. They should carry their own weight in a list without being obnoxious.

Again though - the kits are NOT worth it for the games you in particular play. Your personal scenario however is more the exception than the norm. I don't mean that you only play at home either, I mean you only play at home with MASSIVE NUMBERS. I'm willing to bet most people who only play at home a) do not visit this terrible place and, b) do not own the quantities that you yourself have. For people in your scenario, absolutely there is very little value in a full upgrade.

Well, I guess in my mind's eye, that's what you do in Epic:  a squadron of x-wings supported by a flight of B-Wings.

You can take the Seven Samurai approach, and have every pilot be a hero in a different ship, but I find that hard to keep track of.

And while I have played at MASSIVE NUMBERS, really I'm mostly at "FFG supported" 300-point Epic.

So, if FFG is listening at all, here's an idea:

Epic Kits should contain material for Huge ships as well as a splash of extra starfighter dials and generic bases for the classic ships.

That would have some pretty good value, IMHO.  And, if I could couple something like that with an original conversion kit, I would likely become a full converter.

 

Edited by Darth Meanie

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16 hours ago, Arkanta974 said:

Yeah I think FFG should never done conversion kit. As a old player I will be truly happy to put in the trash all of my 1.0 collection and buy again all the ship ! This is the real best solution !

I agree with this. The necessity of Hyperspace shows that conversion kits were a mistake. 

The old players who they were trying to appease with the conversions weren't placated anyway.

If they'd never done conversions, we could have 2.0 as the competitive game with a small ship count and better balance, and then 1.0 could have stuck around as the more casual game with all the fun ships and formats and stuff. 

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8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, I guess in my mind's eye, that's what you do in Epic:  a squadron of x-wings supported by a flight of B-Wings.

 I preferred pairs and flights of four, myself with a variety of ships to perform different roles. Anecdotal, I know, but most people I played against likewise used smaller numbers of more types of ships instead of a single type in squadron numbers.

I mean no disrespect in my description of you, I just think you in general aren't the typical 'at home player' with the amount money to time you've invested. (not using the word "casual" to describe you here - at no level do I think it fits!)

 

8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Epic Kits should contain material for Huge ships as well as a splash of extra starfighter dials and generic bases for the classic ships.

This would be a wonderful surprise.

Edited by LagJanson

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5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I have over 500 ships.  It will cost me $150 to convert a fifth of my collection.

I only play casual.

I play all three factions.

I only play Epic.

None of the ConKits even lets you table a flight of starfighters except for the TIE Fighter, which is what I typically do in Epic.

My brother likes to fly 8 B-Wings in Epic.  He needs 4 Rebel Conversion Kits at $600 to play his favorite chassis they way he wants.

So, IRONIC DEEP BELLY LOL

FFG did not do anything nice for the players who have spent the most on the game.

Well, as @Nyxen will immediately point out, if I had the money to buy 500 ships, I have the money for ConKits.  But to feel like I got a reasonable conversion of what I own, I would want at least 2 of each kit, like you.  $300 is BS.  Plus, that's doesn't convert my Resistance or FO, so that's another $50+.  I can buy completely new Prequel faction in spades for that kind of money.  And, most importantly, since I only play for fun and mostly with my brother, 1.0 was dodgy but acceptable.

I'm with you on the Wave 2 kits.  They do a much better job for me with the ships I own, especially having 5 TIE/sf dials, the ship I like to fly.

So odds are my XWM world looks like this:  2.0 for CiS and Republic, maybe 2.0 for FO and Resistance, 1.0 forever for Empire and Rebels, and an old/new split of S&V.

But like @Da_Brown_Bomber stated above, my commitment to this game is going to be well below previous levels.  In fact, my promise to myself is to spend $0 on the game from here forward; I'm selling old games for store credit, and using that for XWM.  So, if I don't have something tp pawn, I'm not getting X-Wing.  To wit, I didn't get any Wave 2 ConKits yesterday because I only had enough credit for A-Wings and Mining TIEs.

if you bought 500 ships but complain about having to spend money your hobby, you're an idiot. 

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51 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

if you bought 500 ships but complain about having to spend money your hobby, you're an idiot. 

 

6 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, as @Nyxen will immediately point out, if I had the money to buy 500 ships, I have the money for ConKits. 

Says the guy who didn't read my whole post.

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6 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I have over 500 ships.  It will cost me $150 to convert a fifth of my collection.

 

Honestly just out of curiosity - what is the gaming budget of someone with over 500 ships?   I would imagine you spend more than $150 every time a new wave comes out, am I correct?   And that's just for like, one or MAYBE two new ships per faction.   Now with these kit's you are getting LOTS of new ships per faction.  I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. 

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34 minutes ago, generalchaos34 said:

The real question to be asked then....why are we having this conversation?

Because if I have 500 ships I must like this game.

Which means I might still like to see this game go in directions that are of interest to me.

Oddly, I'm not even the OP, so clearly there are other people dissatisfied with conversion kits.  Hence, the conversation.

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The Conversion Kits are a great value, provided you don't have a collection that's larger than anything you would ever need for a game of the standard 200 point format. 

The fact is, 2nd edition is a new game. Since it's a new game FFG was under no obligation to provide an option of converting 1st edition products at all. The Kits are a steal, when you weigh to cost of re-buying your entire collection against the cost of these boxes of cardboard. 

That's not to say I think they're perfect. some weirdness with how they allocated the pilots on the chits making it hard or impossible to run groups of generics, no shield tokens, and some cards that should've been in more than one kit like Moldy Crow, Maul and the two scum droids, and Barrage Rockets. That said, I can't understand calling them a poor value.

If you are the kind of person who can't stand having to occasionally borrow or proxy things, or are focused entirely on running epic games featuring ship combinations not possible in 200 point games, then sure, I guess the kits aren't for you. If you pass on them though, your only alternative then would be to just let it go, whether that means sticking to 1st edition, selling your X-wing stuff to get out, or buying re-released ships to continue playing. 

There are things to complain about regarding these kits, but if your complaint is simply that they made it expensive to convert a collection 3 times bigger than what is average, you might want to just step back and examine the bigger picture. Players with massive collections of 1.0 stuff, are not the only players, and the ones with smaller collections don't want to pay for cardboard they can't use. As they are, the kits give you a good start for every ship in the faction. if your collection is particularly big you may need more than one kit to convert everything, but you only need 1 if you want to start playing. does it limit your squad choice a bit? sure, and of course it's more limiting in Epic, but you still have tons of options for perfectly serviceable lists in either format.

Someone has to pay for the cardboard, so complaining that it costs money is a really silly thing to do. There are tons of options in this game, which means that there is no scenario in which the kits could ever satisfy everyone. Some people like to run groups of generics from the same squad, some will only use named pilots. Some have tiny collections, some buy 4 of everything. Some of us play the normal game, some of us literally only play epic. if the kits are to be useful to the largest # of people, something will have to fall through the cracks. Otherwise FFG has try to cater to everyone and sell us a bigger more expensive conversion kit, or simply abandon the 1st edition content completely, forcing returning players to re-buy their entire collection.

FFG didn't screw anyone. They sold us conversion products that they didn't need to produce in the first place. the only promises made regarding those kits were the # of dials in them, and the fact that they would be legal in the game. The dial counts are accurate, and the components can be played in the game. Not all components are Hyperspace legal, but they are playable in other formats. The kits are not perfect, and the new ones have problems of their own, but because of these kits players have heaps of options right out the gate, for less money than re-buying their entire collection.

Edited by Hippie Moosen

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5 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Because all you have to do is express displeasure with 2.0 over 1.0 and you are immediately an idiot.

Nobody said anything about voicing displeasure, it was merely discussing 1.0 at all that generated such a response, which I find a sad state. Not everybody will upgrade, but does that deny them the right to discuss that game?

Interestingly, I may be the biggest idiot of all since I have absolutely no horse in this particular race yet continue to post in this thread. I'm happy with 2.0, my conversion kit, and at the same time don't prescribe that my personal situation should be enforced on anybody else. The middle ground, as it were.

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4 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

  Now with these kit's you are getting LOTS of new ships per faction. 

There are ships in the conversion kits??  Dang, all this time I thought it was just a bunch of cardboard to replace a game I had already bought.

Quote

Honestly just out of curiosity - what is the gaming budget of someone with over 500 ships?   I would imagine you spend more than $150 every time a new wave comes out, am I correct?   And that's just for like, one or MAYBE two new ships per faction. 

Yeah, I guess that's about right.  Then I would buy some stuff to repaint, but I would want the original job, so I'd get a new one, etc.

So remember in 1.0 when everyone was complaining that the game only supported a handful of ships and most of your collection was sitting around collecting dust?

It's basically the same thing.  I have to waste money not buying new stuff, but just a bunch of filler to play with my old stuff again.  And even at that, a lot of my stuff will be unplayable and collecting dust without a bunch of legwork to get it all purchased/traded piecemeal.

Akk, how did this get to be all about me, anyways.

@IndyPendant, you started this.  Say something.

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17 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Not everybody will upgrade, but does that deny them the right to discuss that game?

Several posts upthread do seem to indicate that this is the case.

Quote

Interestingly, I may be the biggest idiot of all since I have absolutely no horse in this particular race yet continue to post in this thread. I'm happy with 2.0, my conversion kit, and at the same time don't prescribe that my personal situation should be enforced on anybody else. The middle ground, as it were.

Ditto.

I have made my peace with 2.0, and my choice is upthread for those who didn't skim over what I was trying to say.

May the Force be with you.

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15 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

It's basically the same thing.  I have to waste money not buying new stuff, but just a bunch of filler to play with my old stuff again.  And even at that, a lot of my stuff will be unplayable and collecting dust without a bunch of legwork to get it all purchased/traded piecemeal.

I think I asked you before but I don't remember:

Why do you want/need to convert all of your ships as long as there is no Epics ruleset? Is it not enough to get 1 CK for whatever you want to play in 2.0 if you want to join events, and stick to 1.0 for epic?

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I can’t complain, I’m trying to still fill a number of my dials with ships.

Well I guess I could complain that they included too much! Haha

Honestly I think it was a fine approach. If I were to change how they did it it would be that they could have had entire sheets devoted to one ship, and then the stores could fill custom orders. Players could also have sold/traded. 

 

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