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Those with the new kits - did FFG screw us over again?

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On 12/14/2018 at 6:50 AM, Darth Meanie said:

I have over 500 ships.  It will cost me $150 to convert a fifth of my collection.

I only play casual.

 

I'm not sure what the issue is, if you only play causal ALL the cards are available on the FFG builder to print out.  

If you're only playing casual, just use old dials for those ships.

If you're only playing casual, then...do what you want?

Your beef might hold a lot more with me if you required the components to play competitively.  But as a casual player you can literally do anything. 

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Note that it said "also" which means it comes in the  conversion kit as well. Unless those are fake fanatical cards that came in mine. Curses!

LOL, the "i own 500 ships" is just to brag with no meaning towards the actual topic. I have not been playing long but I am fairly certain that a game where you have 500 ships in your list for the game would need a fairly large gaming area and would take a considerable period of time to play. lol

Even a 5th of that collection would be more than you are likely to see in any game so that can just be ignored.

 

Edited by EVIL INC

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7 minutes ago, Rytackle said:

I'm not sure what the issue is, if you only play causal ALL the cards are available on the FFG builder to print out.  

If you're only playing casual, just use old dials for those ships.

If you're only playing casual, then...do what you want?

Your beef might hold a lot more with me if you required the components to play competitively.  But as a casual player you can literally do anything. 

So the dollars you spend to buy into the game are worth more than the dollars I spend to buy into the game because I might not use them in a fully-FFG-sanctioned arena??

Because I only play casual means I don't deserve to have a complete, up-to-date version of the game, including dials??

Mostly, what I want is for this attitude that "Professional X-Wing Is The Only X-Wing" to die, and for casual players to get some respect that the money they spend keeps the game alive, too.

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1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

So the dollars you spend to buy into the game are worth more than the dollars I spend to buy into the game because I might not use them in a fully-FFG-sanctioned arena??

Because I only play casual means I don't deserve to have a complete, up-to-date version of the game, including dials??

Mostly, what I want is for this attitude that "Professional X-Wing Is The Only X-Wing" to die, and for casual players to get some respect that the money they spend keeps the game alive, too.

Never once have I said "Professional X-Wing is the only X-Wing"

However, if you want to phrase it that way, "Professional X-Wing" (or rather any sort of organized play of any kind which is far from what I'd call professional) is the only place where you are REQUIRED to have up to date components.

You are not REQUIRED to do anything to have fun casually. If you want to have the most up to date components, then that's awesome.  I do too, which is why I buy the stuff.

I'm on record saying that probably over 80% of X-Wing sales never leave the kitchen table, and honestly its more likely closer to 95%.  If you spent a ton of money on 1st edition ships, the conversion kits are an incredible value.  Less than 2 dollars per ship if you own enough versions of each ship for everything in the kit.  It's clear they had to make tough choices, but they aren't out there to hold a gun to your wallet.  Casual players keep the game alive, but again, casual players are not the ones the balance is geared to, or many of these kits.  BECAUSE THEY CAN DO ANYTHING THEY WANT

They put up every card for free on their builder.  And for the most part, many of the dials are the same or have minor changes from their first edition counter-parts (not all, but many).  It's not ideal sure, but if you don't want (or can't afford) to spend the money on the conversion kits then it is a totally VALID option to print off cards/proxy using first edition components.

Also, how many squads are you trying to actively play that require more than one conversion kit?  I'll answer for you, it's not that many.  If you want to fly massive epic games, sure, but then you're already approaching a format where people just print off lists anyway.

I am hearing your points, but again, you are a very very very small minority of someone who spent a TON on X-Wing, don't play competitively, and also care to the point of having every single thing perfectly converted.  

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1 hour ago, Rytackle said:

I'm on record saying that probably over 80% of X-Wing sales never leave the kitchen table, and honestly its more likely closer to 95%.  

Well, if 95% of us don't give a shite about perfect balance and could adjust the game on our own with a little DIY, then why were 95% of us forced ("strongly encouraged") to burn the game to the ground and buy conversion kits for a game we already owned?

1 hour ago, Rytackle said:

the conversion kits are an incredible value.  Less than 2 dollars per ship if you own enough versions of each ship for everything in the kit. 

Bingo.  The oft touted fallacy of the CK.  Just because you might sit in that sweet spot doesn't mean I do.  I find the kit to be a terrible value, because one isn't enough. 

Or it might not support you favorite chassis well enough, like my bro struggling with a pathetic 2 B-Wing dials per kit.  Or @Pewpewpew BOOM wanting the Fanatical card.

Quote

It would have been nice to get 3 more Fanatical in the FO kit so I could run a Fanatical swarm of 6 I3 FO TIEs.  The idea thay anyone would buy 2 kits is pure lunacy. 

*****

I get it.  FFG did what they could.  But they did it:

A:  For the tournament crowd.

B:  For a player with a specific sized collection.

C. For players looking to create specific kinds of lists.

So, if I am not A or B, or get the luck of the draw with C, I'm not sure why you think I should be all giddy about the CKs.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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43 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

because one isn't enough

you keep repeating this again and again and again. But a full conversion kit worth of ships is all you need to play 2.0 for a faction. The exceptions are TIEswarms and very few other massed ship lists. Last time I asked you, do didn't actually answer:

On 12/14/2018 at 11:06 PM, GreenDragoon said:

I think I asked you before but I don't remember:

Why do you want/need to convert all of your ships as long as there is no Epics ruleset? Is it not enough to get 1 CK for whatever you want to play in 2.0 if you want to join events, and stick to 1.0 for epic?

On 12/15/2018 at 12:15 AM, Darth Meanie said:

In truth, I no longer want/need to convert anything from Empire, Rebels or Scum.  I would need 2 of any given faction CK to do what I want to do.  Ergo, terrible value.  I'd far rather put that 100 bucks towards new material.

I still don't understand why you'd want to convert everything. I know now that you won't. But why do you think you'd need that?

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33 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, if 95% of us don't give a shite about perfect balance and could adjust the game on our own with a little DIY, then why were 95% of us forced ("strongly encouraged") to burn the game to the ground and buy conversion kits for a game we already owned?

Bingo.  The oft touted fallacy of the CK.  Just because you might sit in that sweet spot doesn't mean I do.  I find the kit to be a terrible value, because one isn't enough. 

Or it might not support you favorite chassis well enough, like my bro struggling with a pathetic 2 B-Wing dials per kit.  Or @Pewpewpew BOOM wanting the Fanatical card.

*****

I get it.  FFG did what they could.  But they did it:

A:  For the tournament crowd.

B:  For a player with a specific sized collection.

C. For players looking to create specific kinds of lists.

So, if I am not A or B, or get the luck of the draw with C, I'm not sure why you think I should be all giddy about the CKs.

First off,  I only own 1 of every ship, with a few specific exceptions, so no my collection isn't fully CK inclusive.

Secondly, I didn't say you should be giddy about the conversion kits, but I also don't think you should be posting stuff saying FFG is trying to screw us.  Second edition needed to be made because the rules needed a major cleanup, and it allowed for more than 3 factions, among many other reasons. You first say that you want to have all the up to date components so you don't want to proxy various thing, THEN you say you can just adjust the game however you want with DIY components?  

The conversion kits were specifically the help soften the blow for people who had a lot of first edition content so they didn't have to re-buy everything.  It covers most of my collection, and it covers 99% of the squads I'm ever going to make.  Only 2 B wing dials? You mean like almost every single other ship? If the conversion kit contained all the stuff you wanted then it would've been double the price, and then expense still would've been complained about.

There was no winning for FFG in this situation, and I'm sick of hearing people complain about the CKs, something they didn't even need to bother doing.  

Why isn't 1 Ck enough for you? Are you trying to run 4 B-Wings vs 4 X-Wings?  You must have a really strangely disproportionate collection if the CK is BOTH a terrible value, AND you don't get everything you need. 

Here are some numbers for you.
Rebel Conversion kit is 50 dollars (40 actually right now on amazon, but I would support your FLGS)
New ships cost 20 dollars a pop if their small.

Let's say you own 15 rebel ships
4 B-Wings
4 X-Wings
1 Falcon 
2 A-Wings
2 y-Wings
1 Hwk
1 E-Wing
1 U-Wing

A likely collection for many X-Wing players.

If you paid 1st Edition MSRP cash that wouldve cost you around 265 dollarish
For $80-$100 you can make that FULLY 2e legal, which is an additional 6.6 dollars per ship, but if you can live without flying 4 B-Wings or 4 X-Wings it becomes an additional value of 3 bucks per ship, meaning you actually only paid around 18ish per ship.

If you had to re-buy ALL of that in 2E prices it would be around 340 dollars-ish.

So the total cost for your 1e collection is either 315 or 355

versus 340ish if you had to rebuy it from scratch.

So in reality, the more you owned, the bigger discount you got, and if not it's for the most part providing you EXACTLY what was promised, a conversion of elements so you don't have to re-buy everything.

So I'm not going to accept the "Terrible value" argument, because it's not.

And if you really care that much, no new ships have been released yet, you could 100% stick to first edition until Republic and CIS come out, then just use those for 2e and split the point costs in half.  Because, as you said, you can do your own little DIY adjustments and balance doesn't matter if you're a casual.

 

 


 

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LOL, dont you guys realize he is just trolling you (totally getting the points you are making and privately acknowledging that you are correct even if not publicly saying it) with the added bonus of bragging about how many ships he has?

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25 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

LOL, dont you guys realize he is just trolling you (totally getting the points you are making and privately acknowledging that you are correct even if not publicly saying it) with the added bonus of bragging about how many ships he has?

Eh, I'm not the guy posting walls of text to convince someone who does not find subjective value in something that his opinion is wrong.

34 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

I’ve never been screwed over by FFG. Stop complaining you sound like a whiney little ....

Because, I have conceded the point, as recently as an hour ago.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I get it.  FFG did what they could.

 

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I still don't understand why you'd want to convert everything. I know now that you won't. But why do you think you'd need that?

I wouldn't need to convert everything.  TBH, I never said I wanted to convert everything.  I said I would need 2 of any kit for a faction.

I like to fly in elements of 4 of the same ship.  It makes it feel like a bigger battle, and is supported in the SW lore as an organizational unit:  The Flight.

Oddly, FFG managed to reinforce that notion at the end of 1.0 by stating that lists were limited to 4 of any EPT or Secondary Weapon.

However, with the exception of the TIE/ln, no other ship chassis has four of a dial.  Which means, unless I am flying TIE/lns, I need 2 CKs.  And to echo the B-wing problem, I often flew 8 Defenders.  At 2 dials in a CK, I need 6 more.

So, I can change the way I have been playing the game (why should I?--that's kind of a losing proposition too) or I need 2 kits for $100.

 

And if I'm trolling in any way, it's that I am amused that 2.0 converters feel the need to teach me the One True Value of a CK so badly.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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1 hour ago, Rytackle said:

There was no winning for FFG in this situation, and I'm sick of hearing people complain about the CKs, something they didn't even need to bother doing.  

This just isn't true.  (I disagree with a lot of the rest, but, you know, I shrug.  Opinions, even bad ones, are still opinions.  Knock yourself out.  The above, though, is just wrong.)

If FFG had done full conversions, and done some research on the best number of each ship to include in a CK, they would have made nearly everybody happy.  People could have traded in a way that they simply cannot trade for stuff because of the way the CKs were actually (deliberately) done.

(I mean, c'mon ... two Decimators and two Interceptors?  (No, it's not three Interceptors.  Look at the pilot cards.)  That's just a single example of the idiocy.)

And of course FFG needed to do CKs.  Without CKs, I know half the Bay Area crowd would have dropped the game, including me.  If a lifestyle gamer like me would have dropped the game, the drop-off in players would have been an absolute catastrophe for FFG.  No, there's no question: Second Edition was necessary.  To do Second Edition and keep a player-base, CKs were necessary.  Asserting otherwise is just silly.

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2 hours ago, Rytackle said:

 Here are some numbers for you.
Rebel Conversion kit is 50 dollars (40 actually right now on amazon, but I would support your FLGS)
New ships cost 20 dollars a pop if their small.

Let's say you own 15 rebel ships
4 B-Wings
4 X-Wings
1 Falcon 
2 A-Wings
2 y-Wings
1 Hwk
1 E-Wing
1 U-Wing

A likely collection for many X-Wing players.

If you paid 1st Edition MSRP cash that wouldve cost you around 265 dollarish
For $80-$100 you can make that FULLY 2e legal, which is an additional 6.6 dollars per ship, but if you can live without flying 4 B-Wings or 4 X-Wings it becomes an additional value of 3 bucks per ship, meaning you actually only paid around 18ish per ship.

If you had to re-buy ALL of that in 2E prices it would be around 340 dollars-ish.

So the total cost for your 1e collection is either 315 or 355

versus 340ish if you had to rebuy it from scratch.

So in reality, the more you owned, the bigger discount you got, and if not it's for the most part providing you EXACTLY what was promised, a conversion of elements so you don't have to re-buy everything.

So I'm not going to accept the "Terrible value" argument, because it's not.
 

 

Quote

Definition of value

1 : the monetary worth of something : market price

2 : a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged

3 : relative worth, utility, or importance a good value at the price

4 : something (such as a principle or quality) intrinsically valuable or desirable

You've nailed 1 and 2.  I'm talking about 3 and 4.

Quote

Why isn't 1 Ck enough for you? Are you trying to run 4 B-Wings vs 4 X-Wings?  

Yes.  Or 4 B-Wings vs. 4 Defenders.

Or 4 or ANYTHING vs. 4 of anything else, save TIE/lns.

For reasons stated above.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

This just isn't true.  (I disagree with a lot of the rest, but, you know, I shrug.  Opinions, even bad ones, are still opinions.  Knock yourself out.  The above, though, is just wrong.)

If FFG had done full conversions, and done some research on the best number of each ship to include in a CK, they would have made nearly everybody happy.  People could have traded in a way that they simply cannot trade for stuff because of the way the CKs were actually (deliberately) done.

(I mean, c'mon ... two Decimators and two Interceptors?  (No, it's not three Interceptors.  Look at the pilot cards.)  That's just a single example of the idiocy.)

 And of course FFG needed to do CKs.  Without CKs, I know half the Bay Area crowd would have dropped the game, including me.  If a lifestyle gamer like me would have dropped the game, the drop-off in players would have been an absolute catastrophe for FFG.  No, there's no question: Second Edition was necessary.  To do Second Edition and keep a player-base, CKs were necessary.  Asserting otherwise is just silly.

So what the publisher should put out kits twice the size for twice the cost? with people moaning about them being $50 I'm sure that'll be an idea adored by the more budget conscious players. 

As for the kits being required, no they aren't in any way shape or form. Does it keep more 1st ed players in? sure, but the ultimate goal of a new edition is more sales to both returning and new players. Conversion kits are awesome for those of us that played 1st ed, but you should never expect this kind of stuff during an edition change. going from 1st ed to 2nd ed, is a new game. Seriously, that point cannot be stressed enough. FFG did the kits because the 1st ed happened to be one of the most popular miniature games ever made. Because of that offering an incentive for their massive player base to carry over to the new edition is a smart business move, but that doesn't mean it was needed at all.  Speaking for myself, I would've been fine with starting over on my collection, it wasn't particularly huge to begin with. Plenty of players in my area feel the same way. Frankly I was blown away by the fact that they did kits at all. For me, those kits existing would act as an unintentional barrier for entry, from a new players perspective. There has been much confusion around the table, because newbies simply had no clue how to go about getting half the ships they saw on game night. Then you can see them get super bummed when the answer to their question is, "you missed the boat on converting" or, "wait three months to three years for the re-release pack."

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2 minutes ago, Hippie Moosen said:

So what the publisher should put out kits twice the size for twice the cost?

I didn't say anything about the size or the cost.  The point is the fungibility of the components.  This isn't a difficult concept, but people really seem to struggle with it.

It doesn't matter if I pay $50 or $100 or$500 for a conversion kit if I can sell or trade away what I don't need, but that other people want.  That's extremely difficult to do with the CKs as they were actually done.  They should have been done differently.

4 minutes ago, Hippie Moosen said:

As for the kits being required, no they aren't in any way shape or form.

They were absolutely required if FFG didn't want a catastrophic drop-off in sales.  (And they didn't, obviously.)

Seriously, your counter-position is that ... what?  FFG just did CKs to be nice?  That they could have made more money by requiring players to re-buy their collections, but decided against making more money?

 ... Really?

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1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I didn't say anything about the size or the cost.  The point is the fungibility of the components.  This isn't a difficult concept, but people really seem to struggle with it.

It doesn't matter if I pay $50 or $100 or$500 for a conversion kit if I can sell or trade away what I don't need, but that other people want.  That's extremely difficult to do with the CKs as they were actually done.  They should have been done differently.

Your notion of making stuff easier to trade and run generics requires increasing the # of components. More cards, bases, etc. It's pretty clear from the kits we have that omissions were made with cost being the most likely reason. Keeping the kits around 50 a pop seems smart. A lot of players still aren't happy with that price point. With the game components that exist now, the kits get bigger with your suggestion and therefore more expensive. It has to be considered even if you say they could make it easy to do trades. Trades don't eliminate the cost. Upping the size and cost of kits to an absurd degree makes players with collections smaller than what's provided feel ripped off. Especially if they got all they needed and aren't trading so much as giving the unused stuff away. Keeping the kits smaller lets players with small collections feel like they got a good deal and the really heavily invested people can grab a second kit if there's something the just have to do that 1 kit won't allow.

As for doing things differently, in what way? There are some game elements that could have been altered during development to allow for different game components that take up less cardboard, but that didn't happen. Or are you going somewhere else with this idea?

 

1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Seriously, your counter-position is that ... what?  FFG just did CKs to be nice?  That they could have made more money by requiring players to re-buy their collections, but decided against making more money?

My point was they didn't have to make them, with reasons for and against it. I acknowledged it was good business to attempt to preserve 1st ed players with ck's. I also put forth that some newcomers are put off by components they can't buy except via the secondary market and conversion kits. It can make someone who might've joined in, decide against it because they simply won't have the same tools as a big # of players. They want new and old players is the point. They went with ck's because 1st eds fan base was still big enough that they didn't want to risk driving them away. I know people like this. I'm personally a little obsessive about having at least one of everything in my factions. If I didn't have 1sr ed stuff I would feel put off by the things I can't get at without plenty of eBay and a ck on top of it. Since we're talking about hypothetical situations, let's consider another. If the game were limping along in sales FFG may have decided against kits so they could radically change game components feeling less inclined to cater to who's still around. 

Your premise is that it is an absolute that there would be kits. Mine is simply that nothing is required in the way of conversions when shifting to new editions in any game. So yeah, I guess it was nice of them to do kits, from my point of view at least.

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I'm not super happy with the new conversion kits only having two copies of Advanced Optics. You can run a 5x A-Wing list with copies on all five. I figured that there must be a copy in the A-Wing expansions but nope. Can't get five copies right now if you're a Resistance-only player without buying three copies of the conversion kit which is pretty silly. 

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4 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It doesn't matter if I pay $50 or $100 or$500 for a conversion kit if I can sell or trade away what I don't need, but that other people want.  That's extremely difficult to do with the CKs as they were actually done.  They should have been done differently.

"Differently" how?  If you want to trade an entire set of one ship for an entire set of another ship, that's easy enough to do.  If you want to trade specific pilots...what, FFG should have made all the pilot tokens one-sided so that you could trade any combination you wanted?  What exactly are you proposing?

And why should we expect FFG to cater to this whole trading scheme in the first place?  If they had chosen to go that route, I'm sure players would have been very appreciative and thankful, but has FFG actually said anything to actively promote trading of components?  If people want to trade, that's fine; but to fault FFG for not supporting a feature that was never on the table except in schemes cooked-up by players seems a bit disingenuous.

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Lets see....

1. All cards for free on the free fleet builder program.

2. ability to have one card "serve" as many ships as you like if you prefer to use actual cards. You do not need a seperate card for each ship, just a single card for them all as reference.

3. A decent amount of all the needed tokens for a large fleet , especially when combined with tokens you already have, you have buttloads of spares.

4. "New dials", this could possibly be an issue if you take large numbers of multiples of the same ship (play very large games and spam a single type). Considering that you can trade for the dials you might need or buy them dirt cheap on places like ebay, that possible issue is removed. This is especially so when you consider that you can also take white out and alter old dials to suit the need in a pinch.

5. Looks at every other company that produces games and miniature wargames and the fact that none of the competition even so much as makes an effort to make conversion kits when they go from one edition not caring about their customers whatsoever and we should be dang happy to have gotten what we did get, ...

I see no logical reason anyone should complain. The only ones you will see doing so are the ones trolling just for the sake of instigating an argument because they get off on the drama. I bought 2 of the empire and rebel kits both and found that I need not have bothered getting the 2nd and am keeping them purely for the tokens to give to other new players who had not gotten the starter kits or a lot of ships. Leaving the spare dials and cards in my collection just in case any of the other locals want to play so I can give them to them to save them buying the kits.

If I am going to complainabout ANYTHING, it would be the brittle plastic the small parts on the ships are made from and the quality control checks on the fittings in the factory. (Iwork in a plastics factoryand understand that the fittings need to be checked often to ensure conformity. I say, if you want to troll and

 try to stir up drama, stick to something where there is actually an issue or something more subjective and opinion based. You'll get more mileage there. lol

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Jeff is correct about how they made the kits in a way that severely hinders trading.

Here is an example: 2 dials for K-wings, 2 ship tokens. If you only have 1 K-wing you only have a spare dial to trade. You need both ship tokens or you can't use one of the named pilots. A 3rd ship token with the generic pilot on would allow someone else to use this for their 3rd K-wing - note that they would have to have a conversion kit too for the unique pilots.

Another example: 4 dials for Z95 headhunters, so you think you can run 4 ships, or (if you only have 2) trade away the spares but there are only 3 pilot cards for each of the 2 generics and only 3 ship tokens for them. It would have been better to only include 3 dials, to make room for alternative bits.

The worst quantity issue is probably a genuine mistake by FFG where the Tansarii Point Veteran base tokens and pilot cards are completely wrong, but they did deliberately do insufficient generic bits on pretty much every ship to stop us trading our spares. The kits didn't need to be bigger, they needed different bits in.

Now, I am thoroughly in favour of 2nd ed and enjoying all the formats and have just bought my 5th and 6th conversion kits, but this doesn't make me blind to the kit issues.

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5 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Jeff is correct about how they made the kits in a way that severely hinders trading.

I won't argue that it hinders trading.  I do seriously doubt that trading was even a primary concern of theirs, either promoting or hindering it, during development.

5 hours ago, Gilarius said:

but they did deliberately do insufficient generic bits on pretty much every ship to stop us trading our spares. The kits didn't need to be bigger, they needed different bits in.

I don't see how you can justify this statement.  The generic pilots have "insufficient" numbers because there is a limited amount of space to print on without adding more sheets, which would drive up the price.  Your K-Wing example is particularly confusing, as that actually seems one of the better thought-out ones to me.  There are two dials.  There are two named pilots.  Each named pilot has a copy of the generic on the back, so you can fly any combination of pilots available for the K-Wing.  They didn't limit it to two tiles because they want to undermine trading; they kept it to two because that's the only logical thing to do in that case.

The problem with people complaining about how difficult it is to trade is that it was never intended to be traded!  If people want to trade bits around, that's perfectly fine.  However, they should realize that they're doing something the system wasn't designed for, and which consequently may not fit the system very well.

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28 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I won't argue that it hinders trading.  I do seriously doubt that trading was even a primary concern of theirs, either promoting or hindering it, during development.

The problem with people complaining about how difficult it is to trade is that it was never intended to be traded!  If people want to trade bits around, that's perfectly fine.  However, they should realize that they're doing something the system wasn't designed for, and which consequently may not fit the system very well.

This.

The idea of trading was put forth by a number of people as a way to promote/justify/mollify the notion that the community was going to be dealing with inadequacies in the kits, and there might be a way out of it..

Now it's come full circle that it was an expectation.

13 hours ago, Hippie Moosen said:

going from 1st ed to 2nd ed, is a new game. Seriously, that point cannot be stressed enough.

This was my point over and over again in June when I was in a rage.

The CK kits and "you can keep your models" malarkey has been a well-tolerated bitter pill by the community.

Now, the actual truth is coming around:

Hyperspace is the new game.  You need the new game or you can't play.  And you can't play with everything, just what FFG says you can.

6 hours ago, EVIL INC said:

Lets see....

1. All cards for free on the free fleet builder program.

HA!!

If you going to use the tragedy of the Official crApp as a starting point for soothing ruffled feathers, I can stop reading now.

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47 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

This.

The idea of trading was put forth by a number of people as a way to promote/justify/mollify the notion that the community was going to be dealing with inadequacies in the kits, and there might be a way out of it..

Now it's come full circle that it was an expectation.

This was my point over and over again in June when I was in a rage.

The CK kits and "you can keep your models" malarkey has been a well-tolerated bitter pill by the community.

Now, the actual truth is coming around:

Hyperspace is the new game.  You need the new game or you can't play.  And you can't play with everything, just what FFG says you can.

HA!!

If you going to use the tragedy of the Official crApp as a starting point for soothing ruffled feathers, I can stop reading now.

But...you can keep your models...and it is a cheaper conversion than buying all new ships as long as you own like more than 12. I demonstrated that in an above post.

In regards to Hyperspace, what are you even arguing about? You're spinning the discussion into something else entirely.  According to your numerous posts on the website, YOU DON'T EVEN PARTICIPATE in organized play! Are you complaining "for the people".  Because "the people" have both Hyperspace and Extended to play.  Before you were chastising me for not caring about casuals, well now I'm going to return the favor by saying you're not considering new players at all.  Hyperspace is for THEM, so that they don't get continually @&!( pounded by all the whales from first edition.  The limited format is good for the game in a lot of ways, but that's been discussed at length on many places on both this forum and on several podcasts. So I'll table it.

And the app for sure has its issues, but the card browser is NOT one of them.  They are very high resolution files that are easy to print out, so feel free to stop reading because you've clearly missed the point.

What would your ideal conversion kit and cost be?  With all of your complaining how would you have done it better if you were running FFG?   

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