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prauxim

Rank the T70 pilots

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In all seriousness

 

 

1. Poe for obvious reasons, high Initiative, 2 actions repositioning, etc

2. Jess is getting really lowballed for power level, but it's still a once per turn passive mod and 1-2 wingmates makes her worth it. I'm less convinced she needs a Droid after putting her on the table, but I still run them

3. Bastian is seriously really good. An ship 2 more points than the cheapest in chassis that can typically get torps off or single/doubke mod casually. He's been absolute money every game and makes a perfect wingman for Jess (he gives her a reroll, then she tags something for him to lock)

 

This is where we see a significant gulf because all 3 of the above have reliable ways to get multiple mods and I've been able to pull it off for all 3 super consistently

 

4. Ello, white Tallons with multiple repo options were very solid in 1.0, but the fact that he can have up to 2 stress and still do it makes him that much better especially at I5. His major weakness is a lack of built in action economy or passives.

 

5. Nien this may change with playtime, but in 1.0, even with the R3A2/Snap Shot combo, he still rarely saw play because his ability was unreliable (combination of short range and at requirement). Pattern Analyzer is a decent buff, but then you're talking 60pts for a ship that's only a hair better than Ello. Would I rather always have white Trolls or have pseudo white trolls and an extra action in the correct game state? Personally I lean on the former, but that's just preference.

 

Another huge gulf because both of the above pilots are very maneuverable I5s with repo access because of the ability to Troll and still have actions.

 

Everybody else. Rest of the pilots are at best situational combo pieces and at worst a pile of meh. You can get a T-70 with Heroic for 49pts which I'd 100% of the time take over the 46pter, but otherwise not much interesting.

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1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

5. Nien this may change with playtime, but in 1.0, even with the R3A2/Snap Shot combo, he still rarely saw play because his ability was unreliable (combination of short range and at requirement). Pattern Analyzer is a decent buff, but then you're talking 60pts for a ship that's only a hair better than Ello. Would I rather always have white Trolls or have pseudo white trolls and an extra action in the correct game state? Personally I lean on the former, but that's just preference.

I suspect it will change with playtime, probably 1 game. His ability is pretty easy to trigger and it's a lot better than 1.0 due to the way PA works now. I expect even an average player will get more than double the econ from Nien/PA than Ello, easily paying for the 4pts.

Edited by prauxim
4pts not 5

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41 minutes ago, Okapi said:

I'm definitely looking forward to giving Composure Snap a go, even if he's only I4. Could be Nien and Ello are better bets, but I guess we'll see.

I'm excited to try Snap/Composure. I'll bump him a rank or two if works out well. Plus he's one of the few ships with good art.

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21 hours ago, prauxim said:

But Ello's economy is bad. How often are you doing a talon? 1 in 3 turns seem like conservatively high estimate. Other ships get a free action every turn, how is that even comparable?

You can talon every turn if you want she is very very hard to pin down. 

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19 hours ago, Pa Weasley said:

When I'm running Porkins? Constantly. Ello's ability calls to me.

I feel like you and I would be friends...

 

My list would probably something along the lines of:

2- Wexley / Karé Kun.  Honestly, I’d use either.  Daredevil’s been useful on the HWK, and a stressfree version on a T-70 I can get behind.  I’ve always liked playing Wexley before, having a built-in Afterburners is awesome with a Primed Thruster.

3- Jess Pava.  **** ******* Yeah.  Best Wingman.  

4 - Nien/Ello.  Toss up on either, both will probably get about the same use.  Nien’s great up close and facing his targets, Ello has no conditional on his Tallon Rolls other than being stress-free.

5 - Generics.  Blue for cheap(er) T-70.  Red for when I need a generic with a talen.

6 - Black Squadron Ace.  Rarely will I ever say “This Red Squadron Expert would be a lot better if I paid more for Initiative 4!”

7 - Tubbs.  For those times where I will say “You know what would suck more than a Black Squadron Ace?”

8 - Bastian.  Ehh...  He’s like a Magva Yarro, for if other people get shot...  With low Initiaitve.  

9 - Joph.  I want to like Joph.  But unless an Evade-holding Tech comes out again, his ability is just “meh”...  If it does ever return, he’d have Juke stapled to him and he’d jump up to my 5 slot.

Edited by It’s One Of Ours

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On 12/14/2018 at 10:32 AM, MasterShake2 said:

In all seriousness

1. Poe for obvious reasons, high Initiative, 2 actions repositioning, etc

2. Jess is getting really lowballed for power level, but it's still a once per turn passive mod and 1-2 wingmates makes her worth it. I'm less convinced she needs a Droid after putting her on the table, but I still run them

3. Bastian is seriously really good. An ship 2 more points than the cheapest in chassis that can typically get torps off or single/doubke mod casually. He's been absolute money every game and makes a perfect wingman for Jess (he gives her a reroll, then she tags something for him to lock)

This is where we see a significant gulf because all 3 of the above have reliable ways to get multiple mods and I've been able to pull it off for all 3 super consistently

4. Ello, white Tallons with multiple repo options were very solid in 1.0, but the fact that he can have up to 2 stress and still do it makes him that much better especially at I5. His major weakness is a lack of built in action economy or passives.

5. Nien this may change with playtime, but in 1.0, even with the R3A2/Snap Shot combo, he still rarely saw play because his ability was unreliable (combination of short range and at requirement). Pattern Analyzer is a decent buff, but then you're talking 60pts for a ship that's only a hair better than Ello. Would I rather always have white Trolls or have pseudo white trolls and an extra action in the correct game state? Personally I lean on the former, but that's just preference.

Another huge gulf because both of the above pilots are very maneuverable I5s with repo access because of the ability to Troll and still have actions.

Everybody else. Rest of the pilots are at best situational combo pieces and at worst a pile of meh. You can get a T-70 with Heroic for 49pts which I'd 100% of the time take over the 46pter, but otherwise not much interesting.

Have you gotten much time with Nien?  I definitely see the lure of torp Bastian, just trying to weigh the pros and cons of Jess vs. Nien.

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36 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Have you gotten much time with Nien?  I definitely see the lure of torp Bastian, just trying to weigh the pros and cons of Jess vs. Nien.

 

Eh, he just spent too much of the game without a pilot ability.  To top it off, any turn where a boost or roll is required off the Pattern Analyzer to get his pilot ability off, you're not really getting action economy, you're just using 1 action to get to the other rather than true economy.  A 60pt pilot base with just PA was just way too expensive for how much of the game he spent just being an I5 and offering little else.  In regards, I think of him the same way I think of Thane i.e. a decent I5 that spends too much of an average game with no pilot ability.  My Jess build is probably a little on the bloated side with an R5 and an HLC, but still outperformed Nien very consistently and was cheaper.  If you don't feel confident in low I pilots, I'd go Nien, but personally I get far more out of the cheap and economical pilots.

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4 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Eh, he just spent too much of the game without a pilot ability.  To top it off, any turn where a boost or roll is required off the Pattern Analyzer to get his pilot ability off, you're not really getting action economy, you're just using 1 action to get to the other rather than true economy.  A 60pt pilot base with just PA was just way too expensive for how much of the game he spent just being an I5 and offering little else.  In regards, I think of him the same way I think of Thane i.e. a decent I5 that spends too much of an average game with no pilot ability.  My Jess build is probably a little on the bloated side with an R5 and an HLC, but still outperformed Nien very consistently and was cheaper.  If you don't feel confident in low I pilots, I'd go Nien, but personally I get far more out of the cheap and economical pilots.

Was this comparison over multiple games with Nien?

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Eh, he just spent too much of the game without a pilot ability.  To top it off, any turn where a boost or roll is required off the Pattern Analyzer to get his pilot ability off, you're not really getting action economy, you're just using 1 action to get to the other rather than true economy.  A 60pt pilot base with just PA was just way too expensive for how much of the game he spent just being an I5 and offering little else.  In regards, I think of him the same way I think of Thane i.e. a decent I5 that spends too much of an average game with no pilot ability.  My Jess build is probably a little on the bloated side with an R5 and an HLC, but still outperformed Nien very consistently and was cheaper.  If you don't feel confident in low I pilots, I'd go Nien, but personally I get far more out of the cheap and economical pilots.

Nien has a much higher floor than Jess, if you play them both casual Jess will seem a lot better. Jess does like to be flown in formation though.

But after you get over his learning curve you get to where you can keep Nien turned on about 50% and he becomes a monster. Check out this visualizer of all the area he can use to turn his ability on. With some planning planning, you can start to do it with fair regularity.

Nien is like a higher risk/higher reward Guri. Similar to Guri, he is good because:

  • R1+arc is something that already advantageous
  • He has a box of tools that help him get the advantage
    • stress free 4k/talon, repo before check stress, optional DD/Black One; similar to AS/bendy BR/afterburners/title on Guri
  • His ability (and PA) multiply the advantage
    • similar to outmaneuver on Guri

Each person that I've played multiple times have decided Nien should be the target priority and not Poe. In a month or two when the community realizes how good he is and half are yelling for a Nien/PA nerf then we can all look back at this thread and laugh.

Edited by prauxim
added visualizer link/sentence

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1 minute ago, prauxim said:

Nien has a much higher floor than Jess, if you play them both casual Jess will seem a lot better. Jess does like to be flown in formation though.

But after you get over his learning curve you get to where you can keep Nien turned on about 50% and he becomes a monster.

Nien is like a higher risk/higher reward. Similar to Guri, he is good because:

  • R1+arc is something that already advantageous
  • He has a box of tools that help him get the advantage
    • stress free 4k/talon, repo before check stress, optional DD/Black One; similar to AS/bendy BR/afterburners/title on Guri
  • His ability (and PA) multiply the advantage
    • similar to outmaneuver on Guri

Each person that I've played multiple times have decided Nien should be the target priority and not Poe. In a month or two when the community realizes how good he is and half are yelling for a Nien/PA nerf then we can all look back at this thread and laugh.

 

 

I actually do play competitively most games, but appreciate the insinuation. I'm not going to say I explored the depths of this pilot, but always on mods was a more consistent performer into more opponents and, at the end of the day, that's what I'm looking for in ships for a systems open/hyperspace qualifier list and Nien just wasn't doing that for me. YMMV and feel free to keep playing him and extolling the virtues, but please try be a little less passive aggressive in the future.

 

That aside, the pilot whose gotten the most hate hasn't actually Been Jess, Nien or Poe, but rather Bastian. He's ended more games than the other 3 combined and it wouldn't shock me if he saw a 1-2pt increase at some point.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

I actually do play competitively most games, but appreciate the insinuation. I'm not going to say I explored the depths of this pilot, but always on mods was a more consistent performer into more opponents and, at the end of the day, that's what I'm looking for in ships for a systems open/hyperspace qualifier list and Nien just wasn't doing that for me. YMMV and feel free to keep playing him and extolling the virtues, but please try be a little less passive aggressive in the future.

That aside, the pilot whose gotten the most hate hasn't actually Been Jess, Nien or Poe, but rather Bastian. He's ended more games than the other 3 combined and it wouldn't shock me if he saw a 1-2pt increase at some point.

Sorry if it came across passive aggressive, when I first started typing the reply it was a response for the other poster who asked "Nien vs Jess", so the "higher floor/learning curve" was aimed at him, someone who presumably hasn't played them much.

I'm surprised to hear about Bastian.  I do like like him for his cost and run him with Poe/Nien but the low ps, range and damage dealing requirement seem to keep him somewhat in check.

Edited by prauxim

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Just now, prauxim said:

Sorry if it came across passive aggressive, when I first started typing the reply it was a response for the other poster who asked "Nien vs Jess", so the "higher floor/learning curve" was aimed at him, someone who presumably hasn't them much.

I'm surprised to hear about Bastian.  I do like like him for his cost and run him with Poe/Nien but the low ps, range and damage dealing requirement seem to keep him somewhat in check.

 

 

Poe and Jess are good shield breakers. It's also noteworthy that Bastian can get the lock off of literally anything. Had an opponent go over a rock to duck Poe, but in the process got a damage card which enabled a torp for the win from Bastian. Also had a few instances where Bastian picked up random lock and was freed to do a T-Roll/K-Turn into an r3 torp next turn. 2 separate instances where Bastian dropped in behind someone and spent his focus lock on 3 attacks in a row because it turns out, unless they're at range 3, damage from his own attack can give him a lock. He's this super unassuming pilot that just consistently cranks out really good damage, but because of how cheap he is compared to other pilots, he's not exactly the guy you want to focus on.

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5 minutes ago, prauxim said:

Sorry if it came across passive aggressive, when I first started typing the reply it was a response for the other poster who asked "Nien vs Jess", so the "higher floor/learning curve" was aimed at him, someone who presumably hasn't played them much.

Yeah, of the named T-70s in 2.0, I've only played Poe thus far.  It did seem to me like Nien would have a higher ceiling after some practice because he could act as a secondary closer.  I was just curious about the repetition of comparison, because I know that I sometimes ditch a ship/pilot/idea after only a game or two.  That's not to say it's a bad thing to drop stuff quickly, moreso just for context.  I'll probably try them both out.

1 minute ago, MasterShake2 said:

unless they're at range 3, damage from his own attack can give him a lock. 

On, I hadn't considered that.  Nice!

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3 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Poe and Jess are good shield breakers. It's also noteworthy that Bastian can get the lock off of literally anything. Had an opponent go over a rock to duck Poe, but in the process got a damage card which enabled a torp for the win from Bastian. Also had a few instances where Bastian picked up random lock and was freed to do a T-Roll/K-Turn into an r3 torp next turn. 2 separate instances where Bastian dropped in behind someone and spent his focus lock on 3 attacks in a row because it turns out, unless they're at range 3, damage from his own attack can give him a lock. He's this super unassuming pilot that just consistently cranks out really good damage, but because of how cheap he is compared to other pilots, he's not exactly the guy you want to focus on.


Yeah I think we are on the same page. He's not world ending but presents a great level of threat for his price, not absolutely demanding focus fire but still punishing if you let him be.

I'm on the fence about ptorps on him though. It make sense with the free TLs, his ability not working at R3 turns me off of it a bit.

My Poe/Jess/Bastian list is:

Poe: Swarm Tactics,R4,Targeting Sync,Black One, Ptorps
Jess: Ptorps
Bastian: naked

Jess and Poe fire fully modded at i6, Bastian flys out front hopefully at R2 to pick up a TL for the kill or close to it. 

I have another variation with Tali/Cluster/Juke/Swarm instead of Bastian that I feel like is almost as good. Jess takes M9 and locks Tali giving double mods (juke/reroll) to both cluster shots, and everything is at i6
 

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16 hours ago, gennataos said:

On, I hadn't considered that.  Nice!

Indeed. Bastian (and Rivas, his first order equivalent) have unassuming-sounding abilities that in practice translate to not far short of a free target lock for their shot every turn, which is awesome for their cost.

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11 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

not far short of a free target lock for their shot every turn

I would say it's only about 50% as good as a free target lock for his shot every turn.

30% off for the damage card requirement, and 20% for the range requirement.

Still, great for his cost.

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Snap

Poe
Bastian
Nien/Jess

Ello

IMO Nien at 60pt is too expensive compared to Poe's 68. The only reason you're not taking Poe here is because he's already in your list. The double action is too situational or skill dependent. Jess would be great, but she has no wingmen (yet). She'd love a Y-wing, HWK, Biggs, Sheathipede or maybe even Auzituck slowrolling besides her.

And Ello... I don't know. I guess? I don't see why I'd ever take him over Bastian+Torp for a single point more.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2019 at 4:49 PM, GreenDragoon said:

Snap

Poe
Bastian
Nien/Jess

Ello

IMO Nien at 60pt is too expensive compared to Poe's 68. The only reason you're not taking Poe here is because he's already in your list. The double action is too situational or skill dependent. Jess would be great, but she has no wingmen (yet). She'd love a Y-wing, HWK, Biggs, Sheathipede or maybe even Auzituck slowrolling besides her.

And Ello... I don't know. I guess? I don't see why I'd ever take him over Bastian+Torp for a single point more.

Surprising to hear regarding both Nien and Snap.

My experience has been that Nien triggers like clockwork after the initial engagement.

You run Snap with composure? If so how often does it trigger? I gave it a try and didn't like the trigger rate at all.
 

Edited by prauxim
sp

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6 hours ago, prauxim said:

Surprising to hear regarding both Nien and Snap.

Snap was a bad joke, he's probably below the other 4, maybe even Ello. Composure really depends on the rest of your squad and is easy to trigger if Snap has the highest initiative.

T70s should knife fight more, but I play it too much as strafing passes (if that makes sense). So while I like the boost more for me, personally, I have to admit that the free t-rolls of Nien/Ello are likely much better.

I think Bastian is amazing though, so cheap for double modified torps.

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11 hours ago, prauxim said:

Surprising to hear regarding both Nien and Snap.

My experience has been that Nien triggers like clockwork after the initial engagement.

You run Snap with composure? If so how often does it trigger? I gave it a try and didn't like the trigger rate at all.
 

So I've been running Snap with Composure with Vennie and L'ulo build. Have him flying behind Vennie and purposely trigger composure once in range. Once in the mix I can break him off and either use the obstacles or the other ships  as blockers. You can get composure to trigger quite consistently, especially if you hug the rocks. The good thing about his ability is if you land on the obstacle his ability still triggers to get you off of it. 

At the moment I'm looking at flying him with Nein, L'ulo, Talli build this week. I've run Nein with great success as well so want to see how they work together, but not sure if snap will work without a low Ini pilot to run behind. 

I think Snap with Jess might be quite a good combo, if you have her run ahead of Snap to help trigger composure. 

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5 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

I think Snap with Jess might be quite a good combo, if you have her run ahead of Snap to help trigger composure.

Yes, I'm thinking the same. That's focus+reroll for both. Bastian can get the same. All three leave enough points for a heroic Lulo and 5pt bid (or other upgrade). That's essentially 4 Xwings on the table, but with double mods for 3 of them

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